[Suki]

[color="Red"]Miranda said:
OOP's, Suki you are out numbered here! LOL

In reality, what many are saying is that Communism, as put to practice, hasn't been too successful. No, this is not an Americanism, I think even Europeans would have to agree to this one.

Suki: Miranda, Communism has never been put to practice. All one has had have been socialist societies emerging out of long and bloody revolutions. And flawed socialist societies in which the bourgeoisie were never eradicated. They just changed allegiances and settled in for the long haul. Any good orthodox Communist could tell you that. Go to politicsforum.org and get a hold of Jaakko of the Communist forum there. He'll explain it to you. Lol. So how can one say a system that never existed failed? You can't. It is like saying "Lord of the Rings" failed as a society. That is propoganda Miranda. Communism in its strictest sense never has existed in praxis. Not yet. Maybe in the future. Who knows? Besides the ultimate goal of communism is to get rid of the state and state government all together. They want no government in the end. Se parecen a los libertarians en eso. The difference is that the libertarians are like Clint Eastwood with rugged individualism and make my day and extreme 'me, and me, and me again' crap that never will build societal progress but just polarize between the haves and the have nots, and are not good theorists, and the Communists go for the group above everything else. No matter what. So, that excuse that it is not successful is not valid. Besides it is not successful for which segment of society? If you are a communist you will go after the ruling class and the rich and confiscate their property and neutralize their influences and establish the dicatorship of the proletariat (the working class) and that means the ex-powerful and wealthy lose it all, but to some poor factory worker who can't even make end's meet that the Communists take over and he then might be able to get into a free university and or learn to read when he was illiterate and some plumbing gets fixed and get a ration card is progress. It is all about which perspective you see it through. The problem is that many in the USA identify with the fantasy of becoming the one percent someday. It is reason why Las Vegas, Nevada makes money. They sell a lie and a fantasy and people buy it and keep the system going. Asi es. And so, communism is a horror for them. The only thing is that things are MESSY and don't work out quite like everyone predicts. It never does in history. People come with a whole cartful of contradictions.

Many right wing Christians think all that should be taken care of by churches. But churches if you study the food banks and the free health clinics are overwhelmed with the need. Social security is broken, and many socialistic services are broken not because they are inherently bad. But because the conservative elements along with the capitalist class doesn't want to fund them or back them adequately and would rather spend the monies on weapons, war, and padding the wallets of those who keep them in office. But if all of the socialism in the USA closes down all together....tomorrow. No child would be going to public school, no free health or dental clinic would be open, no highway or public road would be repaired, no parks upkept, no fixed and low income housing and electricity or water or phone programs for the poor would be in place. And then USA would start to look alike like Mexico and the third world. Over time, it will be. Because what people have been led to believe keeps the USA competitive in the world is not its capitalism and so on. It is its ability to educate, house and keep healthy in a way, its population on a MASS SCALE. If it did not do that. Then forget it. The societies who do spend on socialistic programs like Sweden and France, WILL KICK THEIR BEHINDS ON ALL FRONTS. And the EU with the Euro is coming on strong. So, stop the babosidad people. And pay attention.

Socialism has and will work and it works in a universal sense. It is just people many times don't know what it is in reality. Only what is told to them by those who don't need socialism because they live off their priveleges. Their ability to be owners and use that to live off the ones who got to work or they can't survive. That is the reality. Too bad so many don't understand how it works. Ignorance is not bliss. It never is.

Why don't people question the abysmal failures of capitalism in such nations as Haiti? Mexico? Argentina? Mali? Morrocco? And many nations who follow capitalism but who have HORRENDOUS poverty and people die like flies? No one wants to admit that the safety net all SOCIALISM like public schools accessible to all, health clinics for all, and public housing and shelters for the homeless and etc. are all forms of socialism. And it works in a universal sense and has changed society enormously. They won't. They should realize if the vast majority of people had to pay the actual costs of $10-$15k per student in your average public school out of their pocket. The amount of people being educated in the USA would drop dramatically and the vast majority of people would stay illiterate after a while like what happens in the third world such as South Africa. That if you are broke, then you are out of luck for an education. Cuz they don't have taxes and they don't socialism and they leave the rich rich and the poor poor and too bad and so sad. So many people in the USA live in absolutely IGNORANCE about what is socialism anyway. They are just sold that all socialism is bad cuz of Commies and dictatorship and the gulag. They fail to understand even their own system at all. Son brutos. Let us admit it. They believe whatever propoganda they are fed without question and never pick up a book on political science and try to figure it out for themselves but they want to come on the internet and say they are authorities on what x,y,z is. If you have not done the reading people, then don't pretend you know it when you don't. I recommend for all who have no clue what politics is all about and economic systems consist of to go and take some basic courses. Get an education. It makes debating much more interesting. I LOVE TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW.

I don't care if the dude or dudette I debate with is conservative or not, if they know their stuff and their definitions, then I have a lot more fun. I learn. And it makes it all worthwhile. So, those of you who have been reading here and said to yourself---"I did not know that was, x,y,z." You need to go get an education. Cuz you too are part of the problem of not understanding the differences between fact and opinion and political philosophy that is real and based in actual theory, praxis and text from the original proponent of that philosophy of politics or economics and the propaganda talked about in and disseminated to the masses as 'truth'. Don't be receivers and interpreters of second hand and second class information folks. It makes it hard to debate with some fun. And I am all for fun.

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