Go Back   Puerto Rico Discussion Forum > Religion & Philosophy > Bible
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


The Bible... 100% Factual?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 19th January 2000, 18:49
Joseph Joseph is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 58
Joseph
Send a message via AIM to Joseph Send a message via Yahoo to Joseph
Dear El_Crillo:

Thank you for your constructive commentary. Most of what I have written underlines the fact that yes, Man has used religion, in some ways for his own personal Political advantage. This is Historical fact, as previously outlined. Religious Wars of the past centered on deep emotional Religious sentiment over rationale. My comments are not Anti-Religious. These are credible facts logged in History. There are inconsistencies in Religion. These inconsistencies have cost many people to
doubt the very existence of a living God; the
major facet of all Religion. The Bible is a
Historical account of Religious Freedom. This is the same for the Koran and other sacred
instruments written by Man to underline the existence of God from generation to generation. However being a Christian, I can cleary identify 'human flaws', which are even practiced today. The practical use of 'verses' in the Bible, without proper discussion leaves the door open to mis-interpretation. The Bible itself from The Old Testament to the New Testament became widely accepted "Hundreds Of Years" after the Death Of Christ. Remember Over 90% of the population; Yes Over 90% Of the Population during the time of Jesus Christ, did not even
have a greade school education. This is a well documented but rarely publicly stated
Historical fact. Therefore parables or simplication had to be used to get people to act; specially when it came between Right & Wrong. Religion is an Institution which has not been improved in the same mannner as many other. If it were historical social obstacles
which held back our technological rate of advancement, would have been minimal: Religious Wars, Witch Hunts, Women Rights,
Different kinds of Slavery etc...

I do not state that the Bible contains false
accounts. Only that its verses are often publicly mis-interpreted for political reasoning. therefore it should not be considered 100% factual. Just look at other Historical facts, which in the last century have been 'corrected', because of freedom of speech and press. Many Women and Black Americans can relate to the greater
recognition given, specially in our schools today. Can you see why Women today are still not accepted in the priesthood?

I firmly believe that we are now entering an era, where our actions, both personal and between Nations will be more rational, logical than emotional. Emotion is important, but it should not be prioritized.
Can you imagine how close we have come to Nuclear Holacaust, in the last century? This is why the U.S. is trying to restrict the
use of Nuclear and Bacteria-logical capability to more countries. This would minimize the chance of mass destruction, started by just one extreme nation. There are
many other examples. All one has to remember is that Human hands wrote the Bible. It is still the most respected and publicized book of all time. But not perfect; God is Perfect!

God Bless, Sincerely, Joseph


------------------
Working to create greater
Harmony and Success between all God loving people regardless of Individual Faith...
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 20th January 2000, 08:53
El_Criollo El_Criollo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Atlantic City, NJ 08405
Posts: 570
El_Criollo
Joseph:

You did not point out to any inaccuracies or non-factualities in the Bible. I guess it maybe easier to philosophize, than to come up with facts. This off the cuff philosophizing is termed: "Armchair Philosopher".

About 90% of the population not being able to read and write in 30AD (New testament times), you are partly right if you are talking about Barbarians living in the German forests back then. As far as the Jewish Population, reading and writing was an absolute requirement by age twelve for all males (Bar Mitzvah). That encompassed the Jewish Population both in Palestine as well as dispersed out in the Roman Empire, which by some estimates amounted to 10% of the Population of the entire Roman Empire. Most cities in the Roman Empire had a Jewish Synagogue in 30AD, and Synagogues were always by their very nature places where Jews read their Scriptures every Sabbath. If you had read the Bible, you would have noticed in the Book of Acts that the first place where the Apostle Paul would go to spread his “Jesus is the Messiah” message in any Roman city would be to a Synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath. Paul also quoted the Jewish Scriptures to his listeners in every one of his messages, except when he spoke to the Greek crowd in the Areopagus of Athens, where he was talking to a totally Pagan audience. As you well know, to quote the Scriptures to Jews implies having read them, and expecting the Jewish listener to check them out for verification.

Thus, History establishes the fact that the first Christians, being Jews, knew how to read and write, and also had as a habit to take notes on Rabbinical Dissertations.

About the rest of the Roman Empire, soldiers commonly knew how to read and write (as proved by recent archeological diggings in old Roman Forts, if I am not mistaken one of them being in England, and the other one being in Austria, or Switzerland). It was a total necessity to read and write for Roman officers, as it was the only way to administer troop salaries and fort logistics. That is why, it is not surprising to see Pilate order a soldier to write a sign in three languages over Jesus' cross.

About the slave population, many of the slaves were educated individuals from Greece and other territories, who would be in charge of not only educating the children of Roman nobility, but of administration of their farms and estates.

When you are talking of widespread illiteracy, you are rightly describing the state of the Roman world by the Middle Ages, when the entire Roman Empire broke apart after the invasions of Germanic Tribes. The Middle Ages should rightly be termed the Germanization Age of the Roman Empire. The Roman World did not cease to exist, it just became Germanized.

I think that many of the things you quote as fact come from the “Jesus Seminar”. They have a vested interest in their view of Jesus, i.e., they study Jesus under a very tainted philosophical framework. Archeology during the last 150 years has proved false many of their assumptions and assertions. They, however, keep on pushing their “conclusions”, since they are in fact the Theological Establishment of Today. As an example, one of their assertions, on the issue that Caiaphas was not a Temple High Priest during Jesus Time was proven false four years ago, when archeologists discovered his Sarcophagus.

I guess that the scariest thing for anyone old enough is the moral requirement of the Bible. If the Bible is True, then our Life-Style does have an eternal consequence. But, it is my personal experience, that even though the moral requirement of the Bible is so impossible to live out, with the help of Jesus it does become possible. However, the first and main obstacle in the way of living according to the Bible is Pride. That is why Jesus said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit”. Once one recognizes his/her spiritual NEED (poverty, bankruptcy), then one can come to the point of meeting the Biblical moral requirement, and one can accept and understand Scripture.

A follow up question to all this is: What do you think of Jesus?

------------------
desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20th January 2000, 09:55
Joseph Joseph is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 58
Joseph
Send a message via AIM to Joseph Send a message via Yahoo to Joseph
Dear El_Criollo:

Your response is typical of mis-interpretation. Look at the whole story,
commentary, fact which sorround the quotes,
before passing judgement or interpretation.
If I take a book, read it sacred or not, and
interpret 'one-line verses', to promote a
certain position. Then this act becomes 'dimensional' and relevant to the
credible nautre of the origanl text. another
words, El_Criollo; continuously I have ex-
pressed concern about placing priority to
questionable moral conduct, such as those
involving Gays, Gambling, Abortion, and Sexual conduct ahead of the main purpose
of Religion. When political contributions, are used primarily for this purpose, which alienates society, away from the love of God,
yes people should be concerned. Reference
to "a grade level education", the term rational or logical discussion become in-
comprehensible. I underlined Rational and Logical as reason for using parables or simplified reasonsing, in order to get people
to act. Now what does this have to do with reading or writing? This is what is meant by mis-interpretation. To state that the Bible
is the sole Word Of God is in-accurate. The
Bible was written by men, which were inspired
by God. There is a difference. I also presented the fact of no women priesthood. In
some Christian Denomination, women are taking
on more important roles, such as Reverend.
this goes back to mis-interpretation of the
Bible, which at the women did not receive the same priveledges, and viewed sub-ordinate
to men. Unable to take leadership position in
Religion. Feedback does provide solutions.

This is why constructive comments of this discussion are being printed for further
discussion. Dimensional means a parallel
act with similiar foundation or origin...
The act of interpretation is Dimensional,
and thus effects the credibility of the
source. Because of historical mis-interpretations of The Bible; yes it is
accurate, but not 100%.

------------------
Working to create greater
Harmony and Success between all God loving people regardless of Individual Faith...
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 20th January 2000, 09:55
Joseph Joseph is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 58
Joseph
Send a message via AIM to Joseph Send a message via Yahoo to Joseph
Dear El_Criollo:

Your response is typical of mis-interpretation. Look at the whole story,
commentary, fact which sorround the quotes,
before passing judgement or interpretation.
If I take a book, read it sacred or not, and
interpret 'one-line verses', to promote a
certain position. Then this act becomes 'dimensional' and relevant to the
credible nature of the original text. Another
words, El_Criollo; continuously I have ex-
pressed concern about placing priority to
questionable moral conduct, such as those
involving Gays, Gambling, Abortion, and Sexual conduct ahead of the main purpose
of Religion. When political contributions, are used primarily for this purpose, which alienates society, away from the love of God,
yes people should be concerned. Reference
to "a grade level education", the term rational or logical discussion become in-
comprehensible. I underlined Rational and Logical as reason for using parables or simplified reasonsing, in order to get people
to act. Now, what does this have to do with reading or writing? This is what is meant by mis-interpretation. To state that the Bible
is the sole Word Of God is in-accurate. The
Bible was written by men, which were inspired
by God. There is a difference. I also presented the fact of no women priesthood. In
some Christian Denomination, Women are taking
on more important roles, such as Reverend.
this goes back to mis-interpretation of the
Bible, which at the women did not receive the same priveledges, and viewed sub-ordinate
to men. Unable to take leadership position in
Religion. Feedback does provide solutions.

This is why constructive comments of this discussion are being printed for further
discussion. Dimensional means a parallel
act with similiar foundation or origin...
The act of interpretation is Dimensional,
and thus effects the credibility of the
source. Because of historical mis-interpretations of The Bible; yes it is
accurate, but not 100%.

------------------
Working to create greater
Harmony and Success between all God loving people regardless of Individual Faith...


[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited 20 January 2000).]
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 20th January 2000, 16:47
Joseph Joseph is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 58
Joseph
Send a message via AIM to Joseph Send a message via Yahoo to Joseph
Summation:

The Bible is the very foundation of Christianity. Although written by man, it
has transcended generations strengthening our
minds and determination to be civilized with
acknowledgement of a loving God.

In keeping Religion 'all inclusive' , despite complex moral differences,a stronger bond between all people would develop.
There would be less double standards and more opportunities to excel.

Greater focus on Better Health and Longevity
would be realized. Principally from incentives to find cures instead of maintaining the status quo. Billions of dollars in research and in profits from prescriptions over past decades make it difficult to implement solution to this
complicated phenomenom. This is why only
through professional and respective dialogue
can people compromise and advance with benefits to everyone. People has expressed other environmental concenrs, such as Pollution, Consumption of Energy, and so on.

If our central belief in God, through our own
respective Religion does not alienate and accepts certain moral differences(inclusive),
this solid foundation of civilization would become stronger as time continues. I principally believe that God has provided
different people with special ability to
excel in many areas. One example is the very melting pot within the U.S.A. , which has
given us much advances in many areas.

Who knows the tanamount actual complexities,
which will need such level of cooperation, to over-come and maintain a positive Destiny?

There is always room for improvement. Any time a scripture is read, referring to our
individual 'moral conduct', take the time to examine the whole text, time , place and most important its application in todays
complex world. Divorce is about 50%, does
this mean that the same strict moral definitions of the past apply, to enter God's Kingdom? These are the some of the interesting questions, which could underline
society adapting to acceptable broad and respectable consensus, with the main focus,
greater acknowledgement and respectable worship to a loving God?

Other questions: Does our U.S. Goverment allow States and Municipalities to interpret
certain legislation; maintaining the provisions of our constitution in the forefront?

Has God done the same with us residents of many Nations? Maintaining a solid foundation
within our respective faiths, sub-ordinate
to God, through respectable worship?

Only through proper dialogue with people who are not only well versed but also open minded
towards Religious and Individual Freedom, in accordance with the Laws which govern Church and State can real solutions materialize, to every person's benefit.

What is your opinion? Best regards, Joseph


------------------
Working to create greater
Harmony and Success between all God loving people regardless of Individual Faith...

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2000, 00:42
El_Jibaro El_Jibaro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 4,945
El_Jibaro
Hey Pepe:

You missed the point of Criollo's posting.

By the way, the main Raison-de-Etre for Religion is the After-Life.

Paul wrote around 55AD: "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men." 1 Corinthians 15.19

The main goal of Christianity and any competing religion is to achieve a Blessed Afterlife. Making pleasant our short lives in this present world is not the concern of the Bible.

The Bible says about the Old Testament Heroes:
"All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them." Hebrews 11.13-16

Concerning your statement: "If our central belief in God, through our own respective Religion does not alienate and does accept certain moral differences (inclusive), this solid foundation of civilization would become stronger as time continues." This is a sharp contradiction to the words of Jesus:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7.13,14

------------------
Manuel Alonso
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January 2000, 13:53
Joseph Joseph is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York City
Posts: 58
Joseph
Send a message via AIM to Joseph Send a message via Yahoo to Joseph
Hi Manuel (alias;El_Jibaro)


I do not believe I missed El Criollo's point. I have answered it
many ways. Remember at one time Divorce was
harshly condemed by most cultures. Today due to many complex factors, such as money,
stress and the general acceptance in our
society, it is common practice, specially through our court system. I also stated that
if a person interprets verses from the Bible, to morally micro-manage people's lives, one should question the credibility
of the source. Specially when this form of interpretation has been done for centuries.

Look at your statement: "competeting religions" ; this type of interpretation
alienates people. Do you think Jesus condemned the Romans? He actually asked God to forgive them. How do you feel about Buddhists or people of the Islam faith?
Is it possible that God inspired phrophets
to promote respectable worship to different culture, specially at a time when it most un-likely that they would be able to socialize
or communicate, in the same manner as today?

Thank God the world is changing to more rational and logical course. The Internet for example promotes healthy interchange between different cultures, so they could better understand and relate to each other.

The main purpose of Religion is acknowledgemnt of God, through respectable worship(prayer) and living a positive lifestyle. Education, Business, Job, Public Relations(social), all benefit society. In the "After-Life', as you put it, Judgement has already been passed. We witness Heavenly
Glory or Hell. My point is, Manuel, that if
we do not exercise Religious Freedom, to
know what is most important in God's eyes,
we will end up focusing on questionable moral
ethics, which in some cases are just too strict. I believe that if we now accept our future filled with much automation, and complex divisional facets, then why not accept the possibility that God has set up
automated features in Judgement with a complex system to gauge each person individually. Do you think God allows us to
legislate our own moral actions to a certain extent, so as to compensate for complex factors, such as lifestyles we watch on Television, Public Figures, Economics etc.?

Most people I have spoken with personally have even given me more examples, of mis-interpretation. I have just taken the time to write them down, to exchange views with
others. Take Care. Sincerely, Joseph

P.S. Where does the Bible say, Jesus lived
during the age of 12 to 25 years of age?
there are reports outside the Bible, which state India. Thus giving him the learning capability of meditation, healing which he later professed, with God,s inspiration.

------------------
Working to create greater
Harmony and Success between all God loving people regardless of Individual Faith...

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC4 © 2006, Crawlability, Inc.