What's your opinion on the "Nacionalistas Puertorriquenos" beeing freed

[MagdalenaVillaronga]

Most interesting posts! However, I must say that there are points that should be cleared. It is my understanding that the prisioners never were involved in actual bombings. Also, that they were not sentenced according to the guides for the sort of crime they were convicted for. also, that their freedom is conditioned and that they are supervised by parole officers of the corrections dept.If that is the case, I agree with the decision of freeing them. Especially considering the excessive sentencing versus the crimes. Terrorism is not the right way. I do not believe that G Washington was a terrorist. He was a rebel supported by the people that grieved real abuses of the english crown. We in PR celebrated the coming of the US that liberated us from the cruel and unjust boot of the Spanish crown. Did you ever hear of the componte?

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Magda

[SaudadePR]

Saludos a todos y feliz año nuevo.
Regresemos al tema de los (¡por fin!) expresos políticos.

Mucho se ha hablado de las posibles consecuencias de la liberación de los presos políticos. Que si regresarían al "terrorismo", que si irían al "clandestinaje" como Filiberto Ojeda, que si habría más violencia, etc, etc, etc.

Con el propósito de poner al día a todos los visitantes de este fascinante mundo de Actualidades de Puerto Rico.com, les presento el listado de las siguientes actividades llevan a cabo los expresos políticos.

1. Participación en actos de solidaridad con las causas de nuestro pueblo (siguiendo las instrucciones dadas por las autoridades federales).
2. Entrevistas a la prensa, narrando sus vidas y adversidades.
3. Publicación de textos literarios y trabajos artísticos.
4. Expresiones PACÍFICAS de solidaridad con la causa del pueblo viequense (ninguno está en desobediencia civil).
5. Otras actividades afines a éstas.

Si alguno de los visitantes de este grupo de discusión considera que lo arriba mencionado constituye actos terroristas, conspiración contra el Estado, sedición y otras tantas estupideces, chotéelos en la oficina del FBI más cercana.

De lo contrario, deje a los patriotas en paz y siga con su vida.

Gracias,
Saudade

¡Viva Puerto Rico libre!

[SaudadePR]

Hacía un tiempo que no visitaba este grupo, y no sé lo que pensarán los demás, pero quiero agradecer a IDeJesus por haber compartido con nosotros la historia de su ilustre abuelo.

Si lees este mensaje, IDeJesus, me gustaría saber dónde puedo leer más sobre lo que le ocurrió a tu abuelo y al compatriota que iba con él.

Gracias,
Saudade

[Carlos_Marrero]

IdeJesus
I think your grandfather's sacrifice is admirable. But how did his partner end up "armed"? That was clearly suicidal. In order for that protest to be effective, it had to be fully free of any hint of intended violence. Walking into goverment facilities with concealed weapons, and furthermore attempting to utilize them against legitimate law enforcement officers, is not an act of heroism, but rather foolishness. I'm happy to hear your grandfather was not armed. But how unfortunate his choice of partner. A peaceful unfolding of our flag in such a context is an admirable expression of national pride and love, and I fully support it. But if I had been sitting as a member of a jury in that trial, I would have had to object to their armed presense there. You don't have to reveal this here, but I wonder if your grandfather was aware of the fact that his partner was armed. I would have refused to accompany him on the grounds that this violation of the law would have tarnished the intended, and commendable expression of lawful protest.

Sorry about your grandfather. This case goes to show how much we have to learn from the civil rights leadership of Dr. Martin Luther King, among others.

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A map of the world that does not
include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the
one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity
lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail.
Progress is the realisation of Utopias.
OSCAR WILDE

[IDeJesus]

Saudade:

Es un placer volverte a leer en estas paginas. El caso de mi abuelo existe en los archivos del Congreso de los Estado Unidos como The People of the US vs. Oscar Collazo. Es posible obtener varios de los documentos oficiales del juicio atraves del internet y un servicio llamado Lexis/Nexis. Mi abuelo publico' su autobiografia en un texto llamado "Remembranzas de un Preso". Desafortunadamente, por falta de fondos, las dos ediciones que se han tirado no suman 12,000 libros, por lo cual se hace dificil conseguirlo. El Instituto de Cultura tiene varias copias disponibles pero no se si los prestan. Se esta planificando una edicion mas amplia para finales de este an^o. Es probable que puedas consequir el libro atraves del Movimiento Hostosiano, si en realidad te interesa leer mas.


Carlos Marrero:

En mis conversaciones con mi abuelo le pregunte varias veces si el sabia que Torresola estaba armado. La respuesta siempre fue la misma, "se entero' al llegar a Washington DC". Collazo decidio entrar por el porton de Blair House con Torresola sabiendo que Torresola estaba armado pensando que no seria necesario en ningun momento utilizar el arma, pero que era mejor tenerla por si habia que defenderse. Ellos fueron a DC decididos a hacer su protesta a como diera lugar. De eso no hay duda. Ellos consideraron la posibilidad de recurrir a las armas para defenderse y originalmente habian decidido no armarse. Pero Torresola decidio al ultimo minuto que si habia la mas minima posibilidad de que a ellos los atacaran a fuerza de armas, que ellos deberian de estar armados. Y fue asi que llegaron armados con una pistola.
Vale recalcar - que no dispararon el primer tiro, que a Torresola le metieron mas de 20 balazos, y que a mi abuelo (que no estaba armado) lo hirieron de gravedad (7 balas).

Tienes razon, cuando dices que tenemos mucho que aprender del movimiento de derechos civiles de Martin Luther King (a quien admiro grandemente). Desafortunadamente, "hindsight is 20/20", mi abuelo tomo el tren a Washington DC, el 4 de noviembre de 1950. Una decada antes de que el Dr. King nos ensenara que existen otros metodos.

I have never stated that I believe my grandfather should not have served time in prison. If I had been a juror on the case I would have found him guilty of illegal firearms possession. But he was tried and convicted for "attempted murder and seditious conspiracy" and sentenced at first to die and later to life in prison. You tell me whether the punishment fit the crime? If he had been an Irish guy protesting about the feud between Northern and Southern Ireland he would have spent a year or two in prison.

Gracias a ambos por su interes en el tema.

Hasta que nos volvamos a leer.

IDJ



[This message has been edited by IDeJesus (edited 12 January 2000).]

[Carlos_Marrero]

IDeJesus

I appreciate your grandfather's sacrifice, and he certainly stands in my book as a warrior in a necessary and admirable struggle. Our struggle must be non-violent, given the nature of our opponent, and the fact that we want to start off on the right moral foot, so to speak. I regret that they introduced arms into the situation. Do you think they would have been killed in cold blood by guards in that location? I doubt it very much. If they had unfolded a flag, in protest, surely they would have been removed, and fined, maybe even jailed. But they would not have been assasinated in such a high profile location. Their approach was regretable, and they payed a heavy price for it.

As far as the weight of the penalties keep in mind the following. They were armed with a deadly weapon, while engaged in nationalist protest, on government property, and within potentially lethal proximity of high-level elected officials. When it comes to protecting the President and members of Congress, I too would have shot first, and thought about it later. Can you imagine being the guard that allowed the nations president killed or wounded? You know those officers are trained to shield these officials with their bodies, if necessary. It is their duty to keep these guys alive at all cost. The guards were probably at a distance, and had limited visibility to what these two intruders were actually up to. They responded "conservatively" to quell the situation there and then, not allowing it to escalate into an incident that would have costs the lives of not only government officials, but of inocent people in the area.

In my opinion, no matter what your cause is, you do not have the right to do or threaten to do bodily harm to members of duely elected governments. We'd have more stable governments in many countries in Latin America if people understood this. Of course, not all of those governments are "legitimate", but the US does have a legitimate government, despite electoral imperfections. They weren't revolutionaries waging war on their home ground, they were protesters in what they themselves considered foreign ground. They had rights to expression, but not to use deadly force against police fullfilling their duties to protect legitimate government officials. They were not simply surprised carrying arms in violation of the law. That was not their only crime. The government, law enforcement on the scene, and jurors in court, all had to assume that these protesters were in the process of inflicting a deadly assault, and they were processed accordingly.

Sorry about their choice in method. But their cause was a good one.