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Statehood Deserves 2 Thumbs Down!

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27th June 2002, 23:33
Ecuajey Ecuajey is offline
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Thumbs down

1. “puertorriqueñidad:”

Puerto Rico's culture would be lost. Our language would be destroyed. Our way of thinking and our mannerisms would be lost too. This has been proven time and time again throughout the centuries of imperialism. Most countries, especially in Africa, which lost many parts of their culture (Especially their tribal languages, because French, English, Dutch, Portuguese, or Spanish was more beneficial politically and economically.) and people, and paid with it even more with struggles for independence and civil wars.

Statehood has everything to do with language and culture. How is that possible, when you have an island with a culture much different than any other state of the Union, (I don't want to hear about Texas or Hawaii, because those states have mostly Anglo-Protestant populations and are very much Americanized as well having pride in their state, which is different in Puerto Rico.) with a language that is not used in the USA like it is on the island? There are people proud to be from New York City and state, but I never seen any of them have a New Yorker’s parade in any other part of the country, nor even in their state. I’ve never seen any of them take out the flag of New York and wave it with pride. Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, do all of the above.

I don't want to read that the USA doesn't have an official language and New México has a constitution that allows Spanish as it's second language, because that is different in Puerto Rico. Why? Well, because Spanish is known to 99.9% of the PR population, and English is only known to 20%, and it isn't used on television, books, school, gov't activities...etc like Spanish is. For the USA, it's the exact opposite. Which USA state does the majority of its population knows Spanish and uses it daily? Which USA state does the majority of it's population uses Spanish as the language of instruction of all school classes, gov't activities, and most of television...etc? In the United States you may speak whatever language you'd like. Although, that language you might speak won't be on all the street signs, or all official documents. It won't be in the books in masses in the library or spoken as the language of instruction at schools. Point blank, the language used most officially in the USA is English. You don't need a piece of paper to tell you that...if you did, most likely it would be in English!

No state, in a majority of it's population, has a culture that is significantly different from other states. Remember, in the majority, not some indigenous Native American tribes that make up only a few percent in their "purity" of the state's population. Puerto Rico on the other hand, has in a majority, a very Latin American culture, which would change if another Americanization campaign (The first one failed, due to how it was applied.) took place, which is inevitable if the statehood process was applied, because the USA doesn't want a state that is totally different from every other state. That would create too much controversy and many would question why the USA allowed a state with 80% of its population without basic English skills, have more pride in their culture and flag than any Ohioan would, are poorer than any other state, doesn’t pay much in taxes, and (If statehood was voted in.) has almost 50% of the population apposing their status. Hawaii and Alaska both voted more than 90% to become a state.

Also, the Puerto Rican population and employment by the government of PR are immensely larger than what Hawaii had when it became a state. Also, Hawaii did not have any tax-incentives and didn't receive as much gov't hand outs as PR does now. The majority of its people worked in tourism, agriculture, or in the military, as opposed to the now diverse economy of PR. Also, the standard of living of Hawaii was more prosperous then and is now than what Puerto Rico has.

The reality, the only real Spanish-Speakers are the Hispanics coming into the USA, and the politicians know that after the fourth generation+, most of them won't even know Spanish. In Puerto Rico it's much different. So those who think that language and culture has nothing to do with statehood for our island are wrong, because it does.

2 The pro-statehood party (PNP) stinks:

How many more corruption scandals will they see until the estadistas realize that their party is destroying our island? Almost everyday we hear about another PNP politician, especially from Rosselló’s administration, being sent to jail for stealing from our people. They try to enforce Americanization on us by copying the USA educational and commercial systems, such as English as the language of instruction for the University of Puerto Rico, and privatization. They also support the monopolization of small and medium Puerto Rican businesses to USA businesses, in order to bind our economies closer together. That has proven to create larger unemployment, underemployment, and less financial efficiency. They even tried to completely change our system of measurement, from Metric to English, even though most of the world uses the Metric system. They even want to allow USA military bases in PR, even though it has been proven that they actually take away from the PR economy because of the land they take up. They want to continue the combing of Vieques, even after the health effects, the death of a security guard, the destruction of its economy, and against the wishes of 68% of the population that voted for the immediate cessation of the practices.

3. USA Congress doesn’t want it:

If the USA Congress wanted to make PR a state, it would of years and years ago. The last vote to allow PR to have a binding referendum was denied by the USA Congress in 1998. Why? In the fear that if PR's voted for the statehood, the USA, would have to legally comply with that. So PR had a non-binding referendum, where PR's voted 50% none-of-the-above. The USA Congress, and people, simply does not want statehood for PR, if it had, it would allow PR a binding referendum, or just give it statehood unanimously. It has the power to. Under the USA Constitution, it has complete power over all USA territories. That includes Puerto Rico, of course. The Republicans don’t want it, because a Puerto Rican state would have more representatives than 25 other states. That would mean 2 Senators and 7 or 8 Representatives, all probably would be Democrats. Of course, with those numbers, the near 50/50 split of Republicans and Democrats in Congress would be tipped towards Democratic rule, and that is a conservative’s nightmare.

4. Colonial PR is a moneymaking machine:

The USA is making money off of Puerto Rico, more then it is giving it. It gives Puerto Rico $16 billion a year. While its multi-national corporations, who pay taxes and political "specialties" to the USA, makes probably more then $50 billion off of PR, not including the annual $19 billion consumer business profits in PR. Which makes domestic businesses rot. Also, Puerto Rico is not allowed to trade with other nations, so it must receive its goods straight from the USA. So Puerto Rico is charged many, many times more then what the good are worth or what the USA paid for them from other countries, such as China or Japan. Thus, the USA is making billions and billions off of PR as a colony, allowing the people think it’s helping her. Why would it want to make PR a state where it would loose money instead make money off of it?

5. No-tax incentives:

If Puerto Rico became a state, the multi-national corporations of the USA will leave Puerto Rico, because the tax-incentives Puerto Rico receives, as a colony, would not be given anymore. The reason is because other states that could use those tax incentives, such as Mississippi or Alabama, will be denied to receive them because the USA likes to make money. Those 3rd world tax-incentives would be an embarrassment to the USA economic system, and would lower the amount of monies going into the USA treasury, increasing the amount of profit for USA corporations. After Enron, that isn't a good idea, because when they fall, they fall hard. Puerto Rico, without those tax-incentives, unemployment rate (Probably 50%) and GDP would fall dramatically, because hundreds of thousands and 47% of our GDP directly depend on those USA multi-national corporations. Imagine the indirect response....Why can’t Puerto Rico just become independent from foreign corporations? Well, because we are a Colony, it would look bad and "too separatist" to the world of populares and the USA government.

6. Mass welfare and losses to the USA:

The mass unemployment rate and the collapse of the PR economy will allow Puerto Rico to receive monies from the USA, mostly welfare, decreasing the USA treasury. In statehood, all welfare restrictions PR has now would be lifted. Also, all the other restrictions for federal funding would be lifted, to help fight crime, improve education and gov’t inefficiency. Billions upon billions would be transferred to Puerto Rico, while Puerto Rico won’t be giving much to the USA. Taxes? Most Puerto Ricans, who are 200% under the Federal poverty rate, (60% of the PR population.) won't have to pay taxes, thus receiving billions and giving out about $48 million. If the USA allowed PR the tax-incentives, and the other states, it would loose direct money as well. A dead end.

7. The loss of our international recognition:

We wouldn’t be able to participate in the Olympics, (We win mostly in boxing competitions, our failures are due to political reasons.) or the Caribbean Baseball Championships, which we won in 2000.We wouldn’t be able to participate in the Miss Universe pageant, which we won 3 times, and was hosted 3 times on our island. It would be less likely for us to compete in the competition if we had to compete against 50 other states, instead of being automatically allowed to. Anyway, USA citizenship for PR is only 'important' because many PR's who can't find jobs in PR could find them in the USA. What is USA citizenship to Singapore, Ireland, or Chile except for passport-free passage, if we give our people a high standard of living, why would they want to permanently leave?

8. War:

Civil War or revolution from the independentistas is very probable outcomes of PR statehood. Do you want war in Puerto Rico? The insurrection might be small and the USA government might put it down, or it might not, but it will cause damage to our island, people, and world image. We might never recover, all because of statehood.


Statehood is not going to happen, because not enough people want it, because too much is at risk. Everything Puerto Rican is at risk, our culture, language, people, economy, and island. Statehood deserves 2 thumbs down.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14th July 2002, 06:06
billyboy2674 billyboy2674 is offline
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and I thought this was a humans right forum-not a political one......
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 26th July 2002, 20:25
Ecuajey Ecuajey is offline
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Lightbulb billyboy2674....

PR political status has everything to do with Human rights. The Puerto Rican people's right to self-determination!
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 25th August 2002, 10:17
porsche928 porsche928 is offline
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very good

well said, only hard headed people won't get it though
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 25th August 2002, 18:17
Ecuajey Ecuajey is offline
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Originally posted by porsche928
well said, only hard headed people won't get it though
Thanks! Sadly, most statehooders are hard-headed, lol.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2002, 20:23
GringoinPR GringoinPR is offline
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I hope you get your wish and that Puerto Rico will be independent very soon. It will be a $16 BILLION dollar relief to the taxpayers of the United States. It is ironic that so many people from the Dominican Republic are literally dying to enter Puerto Rico to live under the form of government that you so obviously despise.

In answer point 1: Maybe Spain will take Puerto Rico back and we won't lose our language or our culture!

Point 2: Are you naive enough to tell me that if the Independentista party was in charge, no corruption would exist? You better take the 5th Amendment on this one!

Point 3: I can actually agree with you on this point! Puerto Rico would have a very, very powerful voice in Congress and affect the balance of Congress if it became a state.

Point 4: The argument has little basis in reality or fact. It is rich in exagerations and conjecture, however.

Point 5: As if independence is going to be able to keep industry here. What are you smoking?

Point 6: I don't know that you are right or wrong but at least the USA will see that no one starves or goes without education or without medical care. Will independence provide that to the people of Puerto Rico? How?

Point 7: You're kidding, right?

Point 8: It is also funny to read how you state that the Independentistas will "rise up" and commit terrorist acts if statehood comes to PR. What do think would happen if PR was given its independence by an Act of Congress because, ultimately, no plurality can be established? That all of the Puertorican people are going to accept independence without armed resistence? I would love to see that scenario get played out! Even if a plurality of Puertoricans voted for independence, what will be left after all the industries shut down because of the expense of doing business here, all those who do not support the independence of Puerto Rico move to the mainland (There actually are a LOT of people here who love the USA) and that $16 Billion gets reduced to 4 or 5 billion a year (or less)? How long before all those unemployed workers would rise up against the independent government of Puerto Rico? We could go back to growing sugar cane.....

Conclusion: Get real! PR will never be independent nor will its people allow it to become independent of the USA. Don Quixote, you are jousting with windmills!
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 26th August 2002, 22:32
Ecuajey Ecuajey is offline
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Talking GringoinPR....

Hi gringo! Someone who chose that name obviously has no respect for his/herself or for the Puerto Rican people.

Your entire post were full of bias opinions, my post was full of facts in which you could not refute with the same amount of research. Anyone who reads your post and mines will see who did more homework, lol.

Anyway, let's get right back to it:

1) No, I don't think Spain should take us back. In 1897, they decided to let us go. That was 105 years ago, so why would they want us back now? You didn't write much against the argument of culture and language. That's shows you either know very little of the culture and language of Puerto Rico, or you just don't care. Sad really. I posted an argument on it, and you couldn't refute it except with sarcasm. You're losing this argument already, lol.

2) I never said that independentistas are not capable of corruption. Although, you haven't seen much corruption done by the PIP. (I don't support that party.) They have been in power in the Senate and House for decades, and in city and town councils all over the island. You’ve never seen them commit any acts of corruption. Especially not on the scale of the PNP and PPD. Though, we are all human, capable of many things. There's corruption in every country in the world, even the USA. Still, the PNP haven't made a great image of itself when every week you see another scandal on their part.

3) Yes! That's exactly why we won't become a state. Why would Congress want that to happen? Especially Republicans. At least we agree on something. It's unusual though, you still follow your falty views even if you agree on a key point on why we won't become a state. That goes to prove that many estadistas have their heads in the clouds.

4) Again. You disagree, but you have nothing to show why. That is why people who read this thread will most likely agree with me than you, because I have something to show why I believe what I believe.

5) I'm not smoking anything. As for you, I'm not sure. I smell a little hint of cannabis around you. Anyway, again, you have nothing to show why. Those industries will stay in PR if PR has the right tax-initiatives that they seek; the cheaper the labor, the more foreign industries. (It would be easier to create tax-initiatives because we won't have to beg a foreign Congress for years to do so.) That is why they are leaving now, that is why they will leave in statehood. Although, whose to say that we want PR to be completely overrun by foreign corporations, and not help support local businesses to help in self-sufficiency? You might laugh, but look at what's happening now. Those corporations are leaving, and unemployment is rising. Poverty is rising in affect, and so is crime. Look at towns such as Juncos, or Gurabo. They’re ghost towns, with local businesses rotting because of so many foreign businesses. What if those towns were full of local businesses, would unemployment be so high? Would as much wealth be going to the USA instead of staying in PR? This is the very core of independence. Self-sufficiency. That's the very core of statehood. To prepare for statehood, PR must be economically stable enough, but when that is achieved, what would be the point of becoming a state? LOL! It's all about $$$ isn't it?

6) You don't know if it's right or wrong? Well, look at PR. So many are in poverty because of the current political status which does not allow PR to struggle to it's full economic potential. Will these impoverished people pay many taxes? Statehood is very unlikely for reasons I already mentioned, but if it was granted, PR certainly will go into the union impoverished. As I already stated, estadistas won't allow PR to grow economically before statehood, because what would be the point of it? Why would people support it if their lives were bettered without it?

Oh, and the USA never let's anyone go without starving, education, or medical care? I think you are thinking of Western Europe, because you're wrong. There is plenty of people without education in the USA. Go to the inner cities of the USA. Studies show that most Americans don't know simple scientific, geographical, and historic facts about their country and the world. The same study also showed that Canadians know more about USA history and geography than Americans do, lol. Also, they're 48 million Americans without health care. So you're comment is full of ignorance.

7) I'm not kidding. Why would you think that? You think this is all a joke? I think you do, from the way you presented yourself in this thread. You should be ashamed of yourself, lol.

8) Your comments on this one was already proven wrong. As long as the foreign corporations see favorable labor in PR, they wouldn't leave. In statehood, they won't, because the tax-initiatives PR needs under such a economic system wouldn't be available. (I already explained that too.) Why would the people rise up against independence? Statehood supporters, such as former Gov. Luis A Ferré and Senator Miriam Ramirez de Ferrer always said that if they don't receive statehood, they would accept independence. So, I guess they would just be hypocrites if they started an armed struggle against PR. Well, with all the corruption and rape scandals besieged on their party, I wouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, I don't want any kind of armed struggle in PR. I rather seek things with peace. Though, I'm only one person who’s not responsible for the acts of others.

Conclusion: You are another hard-headed person. I hate to insult you on this post, but you presented yourself with such ignorance and ferocity I had to denounce myself to your level. Such as a child psychologist does to a child, in order to understand and communicate with him/her. You stated your comments, but without any statistics or intelligence. You just like sticking to your faulty beliefs, even if they've been proven wrong. You completely contradicted yourself in your post. You agree with me on some points and others you disagree; especially with the USA Congress one. If you agree with that, you will know that we would never be allowed to become a state. Thus, why argue with me on why we will, when you agree that we will not? LOL! You got yourself into a little trap in that one.

Take care.
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