I want to improve my English...

[Eddier1]

You say you are confused about the Suki problem, and how she can be so ambivalent at times. Perhaps, she too is very confused, and is in self-denial about it. At least, you aren't in self denial and got all your ducks in a row concerning your bourgeois life. That is why I consider you an authoritative source on who is an who is not bourgeois. Of course, no one is perfect and you were totally wrong about me; although in one post you hit the mark of realization when you said that I don't pretend but am 100% a commie, and that is true. Now, the Suki problem is very convoluted indeed. No simple solutions to it can I envision. Perhaps, it is due to her age, although she perpetually goes out of her to say that she is "36" time and again, and nobody ever bothered to ask her her age as far as I know. It makes me opine that she may be a lot older than that; hey but that's alright it is only a white lie, and like sex no one likes to tell the truth about that. In one conversation, when she confessed to me that she was "depressed" in a real sense, I told her that depression is a mental condition, and needs to be treated clinically. Clinical depression is not something to be taken lightly, and the older one gets the more impossible it gets to effect a cure. You can imagine the response I got, when I was only being realistic and trying to be helpful. You can also see it in what was the bipolar incident which you participated your views about. If she admits depression then her bipolarism has gone beyond the normal mixed emotions stage, and is a the serious mental disorder known as manic depressive. She therefore needs treatment real bad, but continues in self-denial; if she continues she may last out her existence, since she has a husband who is a floor mat and will probably put up with all the tensions and stress of dealing with a wife who is mentally ill. This guy is probably the only thing she got going for her, and keeps her family from becoming an overtly disfunctional one.
As a burgesita she is painted into a corner, because she can't take the usual 'pills' that burgessas take and continue functioning rationally and civically in their lives. Man, she got humungous problems and needs professional help, and if she reads this will probably respond without thinking: "No! I don't!". BTW did you get to that thread that was the matrix of this Suki problem with me? It's in the Philosophy forum, I think and shouldn't be too far back in the archives, because not much is posted in that forum ever. Read it if you can, and trust me if you can't find it, that what I described to you is 100% accurate, but it does not take the place of reading her response in the original and all the nuances of it that she put into emotional shock over my having proved my point of view about 'trust', which she tried to challenge and "correct" rather than be tolerant and accept that other people don't need to have her points of view. Good luck!

[Stanley]

Ed:

I found this passage Suki posted to you:

If I commit to communism Eddie I would have to change a whole lot about who I am now. I would have to suffer as you have suffered to a certain degree. I would have to give up some of my truly sincere interests and passions. I would have to accept my beloved father as dead and not waiting for me somewhere when I die to see his face again. Because true communists think that when you die you die (you pay your price to mother nature). There is no fairyland where your soul goes to after you die. Oh, Eddie if I believed that I think his abscence would kill me after a while. You believe in what you believe in. I will always respect that. And to tell you the truth, I believe you have found something important and true in an absolute sense mi querido amigo...my path is different man. If I was going to make that decision I should have made it in my younger days. Now, the change would happen only if I were 100% committed to it and let all else burn away....I think you are that dedicated Eddie....I am not. I recognize that. I am too attached to my interests, my family and my dreams of getting out of the USA and doing my other plans to give it up for such a life....maybe if my life circumstances would have been different. But I can tell you one thing Eddie. I would never turn my back on a true and sincere Communist or Scientific Socialist with good intentions and true dedication. I would help them in every way I could. Maybe they would not need my help....I wish they would accept it anyway....that is all I can say my dear friend.

The funny thing is that when I 1st posted to you about why I did not like communism I said something very similar. In other words I could have written the above myself. Within this context I can see why you classified her as a burguesita.

As I said before I believe I am less of a burgués than she is. I say this because I am concious of my surroundings and whom I am. OTOH, she is unconcious of her burgués state------ very similar to folks like Hillary Clinton or Jesses Jackson who BTW has made millions by extorting money out of big corporations with the threat of calling them racists.

But------------------ having no conciousness of the tendency towards the burguesía is not necessarily evil in my view. I see it as an issue of hypocrisy and at a certain level I understand it. However, hypocrisy is a trait that I personally try to avoid.

You have implied that Papotito may be under the spell of Suki whom you called a dominatrix. Gee another sexual term??? BTW, Suki said in another post she was proud of her narrow waist and JeLoesque rear. Anyway-- regarding Papotito-------- Is that hyperbole from your part? Do you think Suki comes from a matriarchal family? Who has the pants in the house? I will freely admit that I let my wife be in charge because she is a 100 times more capable than me in running the household and I have no problems with that. So there must be a balance in there somewhere. Perhaps you could be wrong in assuming que Papotito está sentado en el baul.



[Edited by Stanley on 25th July 2003 at 23:04]

[Eddier1]

That's not it Stan; I don't know if that is the thread that Suki gave you, because I never went to it again, since I am confident that what I wrote is quite accurate. If the thread has another code, I don't know what it is; however, it is relevant now only in that you could read her initial reaction after her "dirty" politics slander, and also the follow-up discussion. Oh, yes the only thing I didn't add and I will now from memory is that if she continued making such irrelevant asides out of context to the subject matter, and that they would be unfitting and improper to it, then I would resort to treating like any other politico that I contend with on the politics forum. And if she couldn't take that heat, then she should get out of the kitchen. Wow, she blew up on that one about the kitchen, lol. Well it was a better thing to say than the 'dirty' thing she said to me. About the hyperbole, whatever do you mean? The name "Papotito" is her word for the guy. As to her figure, I recall when I first started reading her stuff on this forum, she was describing how nice her culo was, and that she had received admiration for her shapely behind when she was in high school. When I was struck how alza this jibarita was behaving, I decided to mention that she must have had a "darling figure" in those days, and thanked her for sharing that with us. LOL!!! It was all said in fun, and she rather enjoyed what I said. It was only later than I found out about her "Papo..." and that I and the forum where talking to a married woman. Ah huh....!
BTW, all that about her not accepting scientific socialism was well after she had prompted me to take on the mentor role on communism. I thought she really wanted to learn, but didn't find out later, when she started running away from the subject matter that she was already enured to her religionism and covert liberalism. She couldn't poke any holes through my mentoring so she fled from it, and revealed that she had been disingenous all along. I don't suffer fools gladly, nor those who foolishly waste my valuable time. BTW, as far as I know, the word dominatrix is not sexual but refers to a domineering woman who can be a shrew if need be in order to put men down. If the word has anyother connotation I am not aware of it. Femme nazi is in a class by itself as a new word describing mostly liberal women who are domineering and often cruel and/or sadistic to anyone, whether male or female. That's my take on it anyhow. Well enough about her, since she has opted not to post any replies to what we are saying; and I opine that we have said more than enough about her. Anyway try to locate that incident in the Philosophy forum, search under my posts, that is by my screename or by her screename. You ought to find it whether you got the codes or not. Just open a message and if it has her name or mine, simply hit Search all replies by the name...Good luck!

[Stanley]

Hombre! La verdad es que la herida que te ha hecho Suki sigue abierta. Hay veces que el tono de tus palabras demuestra que teneís bastante coraje.

Mencioné gluteos estilo Jelo y vós mencionaste la palabra "culo" la cual tiene un significado algo vulgar en PR. Claro la palabra es mucho más aceptada en España, tu segunda tierrra natal. De seguro que usaste la palabra para herir a Suki.

Me imagino que Suki mira lo que escribimos y es posible que esté algo dolida. Hay veces que me siento algo mal por darle cuerda a este asunto, pero a ultima hora soy medio chismoso cuando ando en la red. Si Suki lee esto-------- espero que entienda que como siempre no traigo malas intenciones.

Haré una búsqueda mañana.

También buscaré el verso que le escribí. Ahora mismo no me acuerdo como vá.

[Eddier1]

Tienes razon, el uso de la palabrita "culo" puede ser negativo, aunque en el contexto, en que yo la use, fue ni chimoso ni negativo para herir a nadie. Es parte de nuestro idioma idiosyncratico, y se usa diariamente. Que de Que! vamos en vez dicer 'gluteo maximo' en vez de el culo? No me hagas reir! Lol...
Now. it is not rightttt...to continue about Suki, who is possibly monitoring what she has invoked in me and you, and could easily at a later stage accuse us of being bochincheros, even though that is not so. We are speaking to data that she gave us about her viewpoints and beliefs. We are not gossip-mongering at all. For example, when you posted that excerpt about her father 'en la gloria' I was initially very moved by it when I first read it in the forums, but was circumspect and reluctant to say anything that might hurt her, when that was the furthest from my intention. I could have retailiated because I had proved my point about trusting, but was still angry and hurt by her cloddish and sadistic remarks. Now, since time heals all wounds, let me say that Suki can't let go of her self-interest in her father. She puts that before the fact that death is real, and that her dad is at rest eternally. It is human to want to continue the personal one on one experience that a loving child has towards its parent. But to deny that parent its real condition as eternally dead, BUT FOREVER REMEMBERED (MEMORIES ARE EVERLASTING) and pine for the same type of relationship that they had with a parent when alive, is putting one's possessiveness before the respect that one ought to have for the eternal peace of the dead. I am loathe to make it a political issue, like Suki did to me when I was facing death as a child of three, a child who was so precocious that I could read at a high school level before I was four, and speak at a 10 year old level at the time I was fighting polio, too. However, all this is part and parcel of the liberalist position of putting ones self-interests, whether enlightened or not, before everything, heaven and earth as well. That's the capitalist elan within all liberal bourgeoisie. You got it and so has La Asuquita.

[Stanley]

It is extrmely difficult not to have some self interest and I only loath that when it borders on selfishness. But, you are correct, both Yautia and Suki are as "Burgués" as I am. At least I am fully able to recognize it as a flaw of our humanity. In fact when I 1st posted I told you that communism would not work do that trait which is so prevalent in the masses. OTOH, Suki and Yautia have no clue about the fact that they also suffer from the same illness I do. IMO, that is even worse.

I gotta go for lunch.

[Edited by Stanley on 26th July 2003 at 23:36]

[Suki]

Now. it is not rightttt...to continue about Suki, who is possibly monitoring what she has invoked in me and you, and could easily at a later stage accuse us of being bochincheros, even though that is not so. We are speaking to data that she gave us about her viewpoints and beliefs. We are not gossip-mongering at all. For example, when you posted that excerpt about her father 'en la gloria' I was initially very moved by it when I first read it in the forums, but was circumspect and reluctant to say anything that might hurt her, when that was the furthest from my intention. I could have retailiated because I had proved my point about trusting, but was still angry and hurt by her cloddish and sadistic remarks.
_________________________________________________________

Suki: I re-read that post. And it does sound like a burguesita pining away for her father, possessive about the relationship. And thus comes the crux of our dilemma about why I continued to have mixed emotions about Eddie. I excavated this weekend. It cleansed my mind. And it made me rethink my emotional states with Eddie here. Which in truth, Eddie IS NOT RESPONSIBLE for that, nor has he ever been responsible about my emotional states. ONLY I AM responsible for my own emotional states. I first arrived at pr.com on that philosophy thread. I did. And my eternally at rest father whom I will NEVER forget was the motivation for me to join up and enter the philosophy thread. And I am putting him at rest finally, today, this day. I confessed that personal loss to Eddier1, and he was the epitome of compassion and gave out personal story of his as well, later on went on with a post about music, in which he revealed something deeply personal with his illness. I was equally moved, and saw a new aspect of him, since all I had read about his posts at the time were related to politics and philosophy. And I saw many layers to him. I never had the intention of hurting him. Never. Thus, my big reaction when I realized I had offended him. Well, I think I have identified him with my father all this time. On some level. And wanted his acceptance for a friendship. Were I could speak about many subjects I had missed speaking to my father about, after all he had been dead for over one year and a half at that time. I had missed our conversations about Marxism, politics and religion and so many things. I made the mistake of seeing a father figure in Eddier1. And wanting his approval and his acceptance. It was completely emotionally based. And my pain over my Dad's loss over 4 years ago has precipitated this final closure here. Eddier1 opened up about some beautiful things. I wish I would have known at the time how rare that was. And I know he will never believe anything I say. It no longer matters, I realize one must not be attached to what others think or believe anymore. One can only know what one knows. What others know or conclude, one can never have control over. I NEVER HAD ANY MALICE or pre-meditation of sadism or hurting him. That I hurt him NOW IT IS obvious to me. I talked this over with a trusted friend. She gave me some excellent advice. I will follow it. And if she reads this, she knows this is my piece on closure. For I learned about putting emotional things to rest finally. And it sometimes takes this kind of thing to realize it. Why as human beings do we have such deep attachments to those whom we have loved? Why is it hard to let it go and face the truth of death and finality? I guess the answer lies in that part of the mammalian brain where emotion can be allowed to run rampant. And repressing emotion is not good. But allowing it to manifest in mediums which are inappropriate for emotional issues, like the internet and this forum board is not good, or having expectations based on emotions is wrong. I guess this is what Eddie had been trying to say about allowing objectivity to be our guide. Cuz, as humans if we allow our emotions to dictate our behavior. We cause all kinds of chaos. Well, Eddie stated he felt betrayed. I feel that way too now. But, I hold no grudges or negative feelings. Cuz, I realize it was precipatated by my own attachments. And my own love of wanting to see my father in someone just for a while. Eddie is not my father. And never was. He was a poster on a website, with a mission to share his philosophy and his wisdom with his fellow Puerto Ricans. His Scientific Socialism is very important to him. I still hold I learned a lot. That I don't currently agree with all aspects of that philosophy. That is allright. Many independentistas are socialists and religious and will continue to be. I asked for his mentoring to learn more about it. And all my questions do start off very superficial and not deep. That is my style in all subjects, start off with stupid questions and then move on to deep stuff. My husband does not like the style, neither did many people I know whom I have learned from in the past. Maybe I should change it. I also have a hard time with changing rules on a social level. I should have changed so many things when dealing with a man of Eddie's generation. They have strong boundaries on what kinds of behavior is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Eddie should know, I call myself a Yogist now. Not hindu. And it is due to his heavy confrontation of my religious convictions. Never before heavily confronted. I put this emotionally based relationship in my own mind to rest today. And I also put my father's loss to rest. I take responsibility for that. And I hope Stanley and Eddie take responsibility for those things they have said that are obvious to me were not accurate about me. But, no one can control what others conclude or think. It is useless to try to do that. And an act of futility.

The part about la burguesia. Lol. I think one of my 'anecdotes' or 'vignettes' is appropriate here. And it will get right to the point. A burgues is what Stanley tried to describe with the word ABOLENGO. ANCESTRY, and of being of 'buena familia'. And by buena familia it does not mean a family without problems of course, but instead a family who has a certain social and usually also an economic position of power. Where the rules don't apply to them. For example, if you have a burguesa from the left protesting in Vieques, and the NAVY people decide they are going to break up the protestors, they are going to treat the leftist burguesa with kid gloves, and the protestor with some generic last name like Rodriguez or Rivera (smile), regular joe or jane, can be handled a little more roughly. Thus, that is why there is a saying, 'justice can be bought'. For those who have that social and economic position in this society and in Puerto Rican society a burgues is that person who has favored treatment in many levels. And they are completely unaware of it. Such as Stanley thinking anyone who is hard working like he is, will be magically approved for a loan with the right collateral etc. No, Stanley the world does not work that way. There are people with certain markers on a social level and that is how they get entree into certain financial status or social status positions. As far as I know, my mother never betrayed her principles ever for money or for social climbing. Neither of us ever were interested in being burgueses. We were aware not only that we were not going to be burgueses due to us being born to people without what Jay McLeod calls social cultural capital. Look it up Stanley, it will help you end your delusional state on who is burgues and who is not. Now, many members of the working class aspire to become middle class and or eventually part of the power elite or even of being part of the burguesia, thus all the propaganda about late night tv stating "you too can become a millionaire overnight through the XYZ method of profit and power!!" It is all sold to the masses, to promote faith and perpetuate the system and see it as just and good and right and All-American and the land of opportunity. And there is always that trickle of people who fit the profile of success. Rags to riches and etc. And so the vast majority fall for it. It is what I call a social lottery ticket. For one has to sell that lottery ticket to many to get them to not revolutionize an essentially self-interested system.

On the subject of my 'eroticism' and 'fascination with sex'. Well, the part about fragrance of my husband's skin. I have a penchant for wanting to write using all my senses. I like reading literature (and have read literature for years) that is filled with imagery that engages all 5 senses. I think it brings to life what one feels and sees inside the mind. Again, apparently this is not a creative writing workshop. This is a forum. And all subjects should not go off the tangent with descriptives because people will interpret it as a woman looking for something. I guess I will have to write all kinds of things creatively. They are not burgues based. I hate wine, and only buy wine for my husband. I don't drink it. Never have. I don't go to cocktail parties or eat brie cheese. I don't see liberal women in general with any favor. I am not interested in them or their perspectives. If they are into sex and violence. I don't give a damn. I already addressed my final thoughts about those two liberal thinking icons in the thread "Final Thoughts on Certain Subjects", and my theory that military dudes (especially ex School of the Americas types), are more into sex and violence in an ugly crude way can be found on the open board. That Nacionalista allowed that filth unedited to continue because some Sargeant was the one who did it, and he is a fellow military man in arms. Makes me see clearly just how much that crap comes from the subconscious minds of ex-military people. And not the lovely sensual stories I have told here about my marriage and intimacy between people who are in love and care for each other. Which the women appreciated and gave hope for the future to (such as NegraD felt uplifted by my 'love story' about my husband), again women understand with pocas palabras. Men, might see all that as loose morals. Maybe, men of another generation especially. Who knows? I do talk about my adventures in Mexico and such, and I don't see any human being as some exotic animal in a zoo to be studied. That is highly disrespectful and arrogant. And anti-humano. Plus, highly ineffective in anthropology. But it is just an extension of a life with a Multicultural educator like my mother and a linguist/educator/artist tendency person like my father who had so much diverse people in their home. Neither whom cared about social class, I mean how could they? My father lived in El fanguito in San Juan for a while in a bad barrio in NYC, in the south bronx. My mother's early life OJOSVERDES described pretty good. Thanks Cousin. She knows she aint a burguesa. She called me yesterday. I love talking to her like I said before I am never bored or lonely in her presence. So, I have no doubts about my lack of abolengo and burguesia. Many things I have written could be interpreted as burgues. Cuz the working class usually are busy surviving and don't have time for all this fluff. Maybe if I had children I would not either.

I thought about not writing in this thread anymore. But, after talking to my friend, I decided to finalize it here. Hey, no one is going to meet my husband anyway. So, it is okay for many to speculate what my or his character truly is. If any of you had any interest in that personalistic stuff. Which I think is the reason for all this terrible derroche de emociones. Ask Puro Pedro the german doctoral student who visited my mother and I and my husband for three weeks. And ask Lorelei too, she lives in my state and I think I will develop a small freindship with the woman. She is very nice. I have always gotten along with the women on this site. I hope Fausta enjoyed the recipes I sent her through email.

_________________________________________________________

I hope this finalizes everything. In terms of violence. War is justified when one is defending something so essential that if one loses that, then life is no longer worth living. Your dignity, your humanity, your country and your sense of transcendence,that human altruism that one observes in anthropology among the great apes and the chimps (yes they can be conniving and selfish too, but they also know when to sacrifice for the group's benefit), and human beings sometimes have lost that. They have. What is more important than all those emotions and vagaries and such one goes through in life? Basic principles. Mine is in socialism Stanley. Not cuz I am into a fad, or el pip, or I am escaping into burguesia. But because I think the socialism is inevitable. It is.

______________________________________________________

Hey all this chisme. It is just not important. I am just one like I said before in the sea of the many. I am. And unless you guys are as brave as Lorelei or some others I have met personally through pr.com. All there will be is speculation. Those are the limits of this medium. Me despedi de mi padre hoy. Fue dificil. Por que me tarde tanto? I think it was cuz I wanted to hold on to the hope of being able to recreate some kind of feeling I once had, when he was still alive. That camaraderie and passion for intellect-based themes. Maybe not passion. But dedication for intellect based themes. Now, I realized I did not see that all Eddie wanted was to share and bring truth to a fellow Puerto Rican his deepest objective convictions. Y verti hollin in his expectativas. Never was my intention to do that. I just wanted his simple acceptance and friendship. But, he don't do that. Not with some person unknown and not of his ideological group 100%. He has his strong reasons. Mostly based on hard lessons and experiences. But, I feel he did not have to do what he did in this thread. It no longer matters now. All of it is dead. And maybe there is peace in this death after all. Like there is peace with my final acceptance that my father is dead and never coming back in any way. Through friends, family or acquaintances. He was my father. I will remember him. Just as when my mother passes someday. I will come here and read her posts to remember. Never forgotten. If I sounded mixed emotions towards Ed it was never his responsibility to make my emotions do this or that. No. I just wanted him to give me something emotional so I could revisit those conversations with my father. And that was the reasons for the railings, and the railings against the consistent absence of acceptance and friendship from him on that level. That was never his job. Who I know in terms of personality, my father has a lot more of Guaili's personality than Ed. Ed in all objectivity was brighter than my father. Pero de corazones son distintos. And I am gone. I need to change. And get away from all this judgementalism. And take action on my socialism. Do for others. They know who they are.
___________________________________________________

Good Night and to all who gave me sage advice in crisis. Deep thanks.

Suki.

[Edited by Suki on 28th July 2003 at 07:16]