I want to learn how to speak Spanish. Help me please!!!

[Suki]

That is all I wanted. To spark that desire to learn Spanish and be more dedicated to that goal. Oh my friend Torr I liked every single thing you said in defense of yourself. I truly did.....got you thinking didn't it? I am a cultural anthropologist....and love every human culture on the planet. I also happen to be a translator in more 3 languages and am trying to acquire two more. If I am tough and mean with you Torr it is to get you to be committed to Language Acquisition. I do not mean to sound arrogant and venomous to you. But I did get you riled. And the thing about Sapir-Worf and Boas.....those theories have held up for many decades all because the linguists such as Chomsky and others have seen it work consistently....it is theory of course as all science is....vaccinations are based on theory, yet people keep believing in the effectiveness of it because it works! Same for those theories on culture and language. And De Niro will be the first to admit he is not 100% Italian nor ever will be....he is norteamericano with some Italian influences.

And I wish I looked more African like my great-grandmother. But no....I look more like a Greek or an Italian with light skin and mediterranean features...lol....and I love my first cousins a whole bunch....they are half Puerto Rican and half Italian and don't speak a lick of Spanish like you (and very good looking)...and they cry and whine every time they go to PR for a visit cuz they can't communicate with their Jibaro Cousins in the mountains....and I give them grief too....I think one of them got tired of my grief and finally started studying it in his 30's.Lol. Now he thanks me for being a "b" with him about it....but if you don't like my insistence. I apologize sincerely Sr. Torr. And I believe in acceptance of stateside PR's in Puerto Rican society. But they do have to be open-minded enough to see value in learning Spanish and seeing Puerto Ricans as they are, and respecting the island culture enough to learn Spanish fluently (sin excusas) Smile. The intellectuals, the artists, the statesman, the good ones, the bad ones and the ugly ones. For any society is a whole world. Not just a little piece of a world Torr but a whole world. And that world is big enough for you Torr and for all the other lovers of Borinquen. Just don't want to change Puerto Rico feisty Torr into a mini Chicago, or mini New York or Mini Des Moines Iowa...no. The island already has enough pressures to drop its traditions and "melt away" what it needs are people who love her uniqueness and want to preserve what is truly different about it all.....not make it just another extension of USA dominant culture. I do not think southerners for example, New Orleaners want to be New Yorkers and vice versa. Puerto Ricans do not want to be other than what they are either. And by speaking Spanish with them you help in that process. It is a basic form of respect....especially towards a small country of not great wealth. Good Luck companero on your language quest.

Suki.

[torr59]

I had a feeling that you would regret sounding a little too tough on me the first post in reply to mine. If you re-read it you would agree that it read very hard. But your second post makes more sense. The fear that the cukture will become a mini-Chicago or Philadelphia were no one speaks Spanish at all or very well is a normal and respected fear. Learning, or at least atempting to learn little by little makes a lot of sense to be able to communicate as much as possible with others in the native tongue and especially when returning to Puerto Rico. I have failed in this area so far. I go every year and it is a frustating thing only being able to speak a little here and there with relatives (who do not really like speaking English at all). I also grudgingly agree that the culture would take a turn for the worse if everyone ended up in my boat by learning later in life, because not being exposed to the ideas that only Spanish speaking writers and authors and other members of the culture would make one less of a person. But I still belong as a part of the culture, as do others in my place, and there will always be an uneducated element to our society that will add to our numbers in the states. Just as our Italian-American references are a part of the bloodline but have different American perspectives on things, so will Hispanics of every Latin American culture, even if they leanr Spanish. The US infulences us whether we want to believe it or not. I will learn, and my historical ideas and readings, my readings in english about the history and patterns of Puerto Rican and Latin American culture and history as a whole, will help me be ahead of those that just speak spanish and never bothered to further thier education.

We're all in a similar boat. Lets enjoy the fact that some of us are trying, we have a distance to go, but our numbers consist of all of us. and If any of your relatives are near my age (27) and in the Northeast (Philadelphia), send them my email. I promise our children will speak Spanish.....LOL

[Suki]

the power of experience. Deep cultural experiences. Some of the most eloquent and captivating speakers in the Spanish language I have ever heard in my life have been some very humble folks living on a coconut farm on an island off the coast of Mazatlan, Sinaloa Mexico.....I smile when I think of the commentary and the absolute perfection of expression some of them had in getting their point accross. It comes from being born and raised within their cultural schematics and landscape. But also on the other hand you have people with no education in their own language (and this includes stateside monolingual English speakers [who do not even dominate their own native language adequately much less attempt to tackle a new one])with no formal education and no interest in furthering their knowledge either being mothers and fathers to children who grow up with poor language skills in general. Fail at school and basically struggle their whole lives. Why? Parents never gave it the value it merited. Those who teach their kids that speaking, reading and writing and above all expressing their deepest feelings and thoughts with grace and eloquence is not only empowering but liberating, entertaining and fun!!!And speaking more than one is great as well!! But the individual child must choose to listen to the parents or the greater society telling the child "dump the Spanish, it is a shameful, inferior language associated with dishwashers, waiters, cooks and janitors. It will hold you back in your endeavors and dreams in the USA. English is all you need for success."

IF you got really cool parents like I did. They do not listen to the rhetoric spouted by the majority. No, they do not. They instead say "not only is Spanish great and intellectual and fun, but it can express things English can not! And do not stop with just English and Spanish....keep on going till you drop from language practice exhaustion and bend that mind until it is limber and flexible like a bamboo sapling!"

Long live the working man who like my parents come from humble origins, figure out the lies, confront the liars and educate themselves and make a smoothly paved road for their kids.

Que Vivan!

Suki.

[torr59]

Point well taken.

[yautiawoman2]

[quote]Originally posted by torr59
[b]Point well taken.

Now lets make categories of culture to explain how I mean culture, for your edification, beyond formal culture.

Unfortunately formal is where most people start and where most people stay. Formal is what I call museum culture. It is the culture you can teach in a classroom. It is the culture you can see, hear and touch in a museum. When a culture dies, or is dying, people want to see it in a museum. You know, this is how the people lived, this is a bohio, this is their music, here are their bateys, these are their symbols, their clothing, their arts and crafts.

Now when a culture is alive and well it can borrow from many other cultures but there is a core essence, there is the deep culture that only comes from the day to day living with the people. Take for instance the life of the Viequenses, you must experience the sea from a tiny fishing boat, una yola. You must take that lancha back and forth to buy the bare essentials, not that there are no such places on Vieques, but people complaint about the quality, the prices, the freshness etc. What about medical services?; There is an issue: transportation during an emergency, not easy, and a great issue for the populares that became involved in providing essential medical services right on the island of Vieques. You would think the Navy, with all its might would like to be good neighbors, they have never been, I wonder why?

Then there is the problem of housing, jobs and education for the youth or young married couples in Vieques. What about the viejos who love to retire there because they find it is less stress than living in Bayamon? That my friend is deep culture, to understand it is to live it, to hear it, to get into arguments about it and who is responsible and how to solve all these problems, the bare essense of daily existence.

Then there is situational culture, you see how apprehensive the gringos who are part of the military who had retired in la isla nena became, they looked frightened, and closed their doors and did not interact very much with the viequenses, when the confrontation between the people and the Navy became a red hot issue. In the middle of it all, I spoke with a bunch of gringo turist who vacationed in la Esperanza, in the public beaches, eat at the restaurants and even rented houses in Vieques and did not even notice Camp Garcia! I had to get a copy of the Vieques Times and read a few articles to them so they could understand where they where, not just on a Caribbean Beach.

Then there is the conflict between the political parties, after all this is our national sport, arguments between populares, estadistas and independentistas. It is called situational culture, we find an opportunity, a situation, and voila! there we go, in the carro publico, la lancha, la guagua, anywhere and everywhere in a big, long discussion about politics. And people will say, don't get involved in public discussions about religion or politics, ay bendito, forget that, it can't be done! It matters not the mix, all PRs, PRs of different parties, PRs and others ie. cubans, dominicans and virgin islanders, even the gringos who are willing to get down and dirty (not too often), we will get into it, hot and heavy, this my friend is situational culture. The issues all touch our deep culture, it's called the affective domain; it is deep, but because all we need is the situation and we will jump into politics, religion, socio-economics, history, music, world view, you name it, we will go at it! And we love it! We negotiate this situational culture through politics, through tolerance, through a true sense of social justice. How? In the case of Vieques by becoming active in something called: GAT/P (Grupo de Apoyo Tecnico y Profesional al Desarrollo Sustentable de Vieques). Or by supporting the women, the fishermen, the political parties or the churches that are involved in the movement.

Now here is an important issue. The issue of Language and Communication.

In the USA this becomes much bigger, 30 million plus are affected; It is a major struggle, the issue of language and Latin American culture. true we are in a constant defense of our language at home, but when we are out of our Puerto Rican milieu then we really get ferocious. Take for instance the English Language Loyalty battle, they (The English Only Mob) have lots of money and are always trying to get ways to get 35 States to pass a Gringo Constituional Ammendment to make English the Official language in the USA. Here even the Cuban from Dade County get into the act!

We need to box all these up for the gringos because in reality there is no such compartmentalization, but because so many have been brain washed, we need to make these dicotomies and create divisions in what people consider "culture." Just so they can start getting out of their boxes, just to have a small opening for the dialogue. So here goes another category:

Philosophy, world view, values and morals. This is not even a debate, the minute you attack the gringo paradigms, the debate, the dialogue is over. The gringo paradigms are predicated on psychology, on genetics, on racism, classism, sexism and all those isms that serve as control to keep each group in their cubby holes. And Gringos have such a hard time when you refuse to give them their stereotype, when they ask you and where do you come from, and how come your English is so good? Or where did you learn that accent? When it comes to the Puerto Ricans, outside of New York, New Jersey and Chicago, they have no idea where Puerto Rico really is in the world map. Well you know where Miami is, yes? Then there is Cuba, yes? Then Haiti and Santo Domingo, yes? Well trust me there is a sequence, they are called the greater Antilles, then there is Puerto Rico. No, no on the Pacific, the other side, the Atlantic!
Ah, to negotiate an existance with such people on a day to day basis, not easy, my dear, not easy!

History and the Oral tradition. Now there is a lot to be discussed here. Starting from the traditional and ending with the formal agreement between human groups who have defined themselves as different from other groups. The history of the struggle for the liberation of our people, the history of a colony in the year 2002, who would believe what we say to people about our struggle? It goes against everything that the empire promotes and says they uphold. Everything, democracy, peace, justice, human and civil rights, equality, freedom...y no quiero seguir, estoy vieja y cansada y tengo tanto que hacer. Me me entretengo con estas "posteadas". ME PROVOCAN! Ya, basta ya!

So please, try to go beyond formal culture, please.

Sincerely,

Yautia

[Ysa]

This topic of discussion has been a very resourceful, and helpful guide for me, in my goal to learn Spanish. I started a class this weekend through the Berlitz Language School (I think they're world-known), but I found that this private instruction has been very helpful, especially with a class of just eight individuals. However, from reading all of the suggestions on this board, I know that in order to learn, respect, and understand a language fully, one must respect the traditions, and learn the history. One thing that I can point out in myself, is that I'm eager to learn. Sometimes, I wished that would have studied sooner, just because when your younger, you tend to retain a lot of what you've learned! LOL! Being Bilingual is something I really want to achieve. I come across so many Spanish speaking individuals in my current job in the field of Insurance. However, I want to get out of this field and become a Teacher, once I finish school (which will be a while). Again, much thanks to all!

Ysa

[yautiawoman2]

[quote]Originally posted by Ysa
[b]This topic of discussion has been a very resourceful, and helpful guide for me, in my goal to learn Spanish. I started a class this weekend through the Berlitz Language School (I think they're world-known), but I found that this private instruction has been very helpful, especially with a class of just eight individuals. However, from reading all of the suggestions on this board, I know that in order to learn, respect, and understand a language fully, one must respect the traditions, and learn the history. One thing that I can point out in myself, is that I'm eager to learn. Sometimes, I wished that would have studied sooner, just because when your younger, you tend to retain a lot of what you've learned! LOL! Being Bilingual is something I really want to achieve. I come across so many Spanish speaking individuals in my current job in the field of Insurance. However, I want to get out of this field and become a Teacher, once I finish school (which will be a while). Again, much thanks to all!
________________________________________________________

Now a few words about history:

You and I make history every day. And we must remember
that Jose Marti said it best when he spoke (wrote) about
the making of heroes. Our historical heroes:

"ESOS SON LOS HEROES; LOS QUE PELEAN PARA
HACER A LOS PUEBLOS LIBRES, O LOS QUE
PADECEN EN PROBREZA Y DESGRACIA POR
DEFENDER UNA GRAN VERDAD.

LOS QUE PELEAN POR LA AMBICION, POR
HACER ESCLAVOS A OTROS PUEBLOS, POR
TENER MAS MANDO, POR QUITARLES A OTROS
PUEBLOS SUS TIERRAS, NO SON HEROES

SINO CRIMINALES."

(Jose Marti)

(de La Voz de Vieques, La Conciencia del Pueblo,
Año III, Núm.55 19 al 26 de julio, 2002)

Los demócratas, antinguos aliados del PPD, estan
tratando de arrinconar a Bush para obligarlo a fijar
formalmente la fecha del 1 de mayo de 2003, para la
salida de la Marina de Vieques. Aníbal Acevedo Vilá
corre histéroco y despavorido para tratar de acallar
las exigencias demócratas que puedan abochornar a Bush
y a los republicanos (Repukes) ante los votantes puertorriqueños.

Es evidente el trueque de Sila y Karl Rove. Votos
("Puerto Rican Votes in exchange for Vieques")
puertorriqueños por Vieques...y si son muchos votos,
tal vez otras cositas más.

Pero la Marina (U$ Navy) no es parte del trueque.
Mantiene su actividad politica para crear las
condiciones de su permanencia en Vieques. Cuenta con
la llamada guerra antiterrotista. (The new Department
of Homeland Security). .......................

En un ambiente como ese-piensa la Marina-Vieques
estará en sus manos nuevamente. (Who is going to
Stop the Navy, The White House? The State Department?
The US Congress, Inhoffe? Please!)

Si usaron la mini-guerrita en Afganistán para hacer
retroceder derechos civiles que tomábamos por
permanentes, (at least those innocent beings in U$
mainland, non-Puerto Ricans, and/or non-Puerto Rican
Political Prisoners in U$ jails in the U$).

?Qué no será capaz de hacer la Gestapo a/k/a Department of Homeland Security de Ashcroft, que se ha apoderado del aparto de "justicia" federal, con una guerra verdadera?

(Oh, my God, Here comes The Bible Thumpers with Apocalypse
N.O.W.!, it must be the end of the world!; but not to
worry the Title IX Network is busy with the "Endrun"
[no puns please] and the World.Com question:
Will I ever be able to retire? Why, how in the world
will I be able to live with such small retirement funds
my 401K is no longer worth 3K now is down to 2K, pobrecitas!, tan inocentes....."With stocks Plummeting
and the [transnational] corporations..." ergo, the Global Economy in disarray, the U$ financial futures [aint talking bout pork bellies] are in peril. Now please let me know how
I am supposed to make the best of it? Pero recuerdate que..
we've been here for a long "asno" time, since, hey, man "el mundo se esta salvando y nosotros estamos -we' been- tocando fondo" for a long, long, time) !!!!!!

So...let me close with the last comments in the last page
of "La Conciencia del Pueblo, La Voz de Vieques:"

Desde que puso un pie en su Isla de Vieques, Taso le recordó
a los presentes que "La Marina no se va; la tenemos que sacar".

Feliz dias en Vieques, Compa Taso, te recordamos con
mucho carriño desde estos Lares Gringos. Happy Fishing!

Y para todos los puertorriqueños que apoyan con su lucha,
el sudor de su frente y su vida a este valiente pueblo les mando mil gracias, mis mas sinceros saludos, abrazos y felicitacion, y que Dios se lo pague, porque aqui nadie se lo pagará , por un trabajo bien hecho y por un mundo mejor! Gracias mil!

Por la Victoria de los Pescadores de Vieques!
Venceremos!

La Yautia
P.S. All rational code switching and paréntesis son mios
Una Yautia tranquila (peacefully your Yautia)