I Think This Forum Needs Re-vamp!

[RPR]

Originally Posted by L_F_Miranda

RPR wrote:

"Classic Stereotype from Miranda about Nuyoricans."

Which stereotype?

1- That most Nuyoricans are uneducated except for a handful? I bet you would say this isn't so! But check out the statistics. As a group, we are the poorest and least educated Hispanics in the U.S. I didn't invent this. By covering it up we only perpetuate the problem. We should tackle this probem even though it's painful.

2- That a great portion of Nuyoricans have adopted the Black American discourse? There have been heated discussions here about this, I simply repeat it.

3- That It's been 4 generations and we don't have much to show for it here in the US. See statistics on Hispanics and then we'll talk. There is also an explanation to this.

4- That in Puerto Rico Nuyoricans have become the vanguard of assimilation? That has been the theory of Eduardo Seda and a lot of PIP intellectualks, not so Juan Ma. He thinks we have invaded Gringo land and will eventually change it.

RPR it's folks like you who feel their isn't a problem, or if there is, it isn't a big deal. We Folkorize our poverty and ignorance like its pure Puerto Rican. We become like some Black intellectuals, those who folkorize ghetto culture.

In a way we perpetuate the problem by refusing to even acknowledge there is one. In fact PR is two two nations, a conservative poverty ridden one in the U.S. and a more educated, but rabidly conservative one in P.R.

Nuyoricans are not the sole one liners on the web. I simply stated that most likely it was the folks who had 4 + years of college the ones most likely to discuss in depth. I even went as far as suggesting that we can have both.......Fluff , one liners and in depth discussions, however Suki will hit the ceiling, LOL .

Are you still looking at statistics from the 80's? The most recent statistics show Mexican-Americans and Dominicans have attained the least amount of education and we're speaking about those born in the US. No,we're not at the top but certainly not at the bottom as we have made some gains. The same hold true for poverty rates. Times have change and we have progressed, although not as much as we should. Ironically,other Hispanic groups have remain stagnant economically and in education attainments in the same time period ( last 10-15 years).

Our problem is not the black discourse per se but rather the ultra left liberal policies which have destroyed families. Puerto Ricans on the island made not be as wealthy on a whole but their families are generally intact. As you pointed out, Boricuas on the island are more conservative socially as oppose to "Nuyoricans" which have been subjected to the failed left social policies.

[L_F_Miranda]

Although this thread's intention was NOT to discuss our progress in the U.S, I'll nevertheless give you my almost brief 2 ¢


RPR said:


"The most recent statistics show Mexican-Americans and Dominicans have attained the least amount of education and we're speaking about those born in the US. No,we're not at the top but certainly not at the bottom as we have made some gains."


The statistics you're looking at might be the most recent, however, your interpretation is wishful thinking and covering up some very sad realities.

Yes, it's true that Mexicans and Dominicans seem to be at the bottom. Why? Dominicans are arriving in droves to NYC, and the statistical picture only reflexs the huge incoming numbers, but not the nuances of a much larger picture.

What we also have to factor in, and it's NOT reflected in statistics, is that Dominicans have already entered the political process of NYC and, only after 35 years! They're taking over from Puerto Ricans! We've been here, more or less 65 years, almost two generations before them, but we've stagnated.

Nonetheless, "this anecdotal observation was given me by some Puerto Rican professionals at cocktail parties", LOL ,

"Now Dominicans, together with West Indians, compose most of the inmigrants going to City Colleges, and they don't even need citizenship! In contrast, Puerto Rican youth, although still larger in numbers, are absent from institutions of higher learning."

There may be many interpretations to this, for example.

1- Being whiter than Dominicans Puerto Ricans may have fanned out and assilmilated into the white suburbs.

2- The rest may have assilmilated within the Black American Community thus picking up that "Education is for Whites."

3- Then there are the hold outs and feeling very Puerto Rican. Those you see at the Puerto Rican Day Parade. However after generations of being in the U.S., most haven't a clue on how to get their kids to stay in school.

Different from the Chinese, West Indians, Indians and Jews, who practically force their kids to study, we have "el ay bendito of, "Ay Papo no le gusta estudiar, ¿ que voy hacer? Ese muchacho lo que le gusta es "Janguear" con esos sin-verguenzas y esas muchachitas fáciles bailando en apartamentos y cortando clase" LOL Lo vo a meter a '"Educación Especial", pol lo menos me mandan un chequecito de SSI."

3- Adding to this dysfunction, many Puerto Rican youths , when arriving on the island comment, "Hey, what's wrong with our bros. here, they all wanna be white?" I think The're just reacting to a middle class style which they interpret as White. ( Stanley would love this one) LOL

4-- MMMMMMMM Another reality is that P.R. population is dwindling in NYC. MMMMMMMM are they all going to Florida?

3 I think many more are just moving to ghettos around NYC like Hartford, Camden and Allentown, thus perpetuating their dependence on hand-outs, experiencing massive poverty, unemployment and high school drop-out rates.

Bottom -line, I think that for a group that's been in the U.S for several generations we don't show much collective progress. Yes you can notice some anecdotal Puerto Ricans here and there who have made it. I'm sure they might be the one's who clink wine glasses at cocktail parties and say to each other, "Gee how well we're doing?" But is this the larger picture?

Although we still have the voting power in cites like NYC we're being eclipsed by Domnicans and newly arrived Mexicans. "COLMO DE COLMOS," they've even taken over EL BARRIO, and "El Museo del Barrio", institutions that were created by Puerto Ricans before recently being pushed out.

Compare this to Jews or even African Americans. Their cultural institutions can be shared but they call the shots in their cultural institutions. Ironically even African Americans have taken over one of ours. Arturo Shomberg was PUERTO RICAN! He created the Black museum in Harlem. He is now venerated by African Americans as a theirs! They will curse you out if you say he's Puerto Rican!.

Yes I agree. The Liberal anti-poverty reforms of the 60"s screwed us up! Although the intentions were good, the out come has been disastrous!

Sadly many Puerto Rican proffesionals are today living off and administering these poverty programs, and feel very proud of them! Speak to some and they don't know what you're talking about. After all most are like Poverty Pimps, they live off the poor.

What's the solution, I dunno.

But getting back to this thread. "WE NEED MORE FOLKS HERE!!!!!! Maybe some others can disagree or agree with all this, but we really don't know, do we?

Maybe we should have drive out there to get more folks in........????????

[RPR]

Just to clarify,the study that I looked into is unique in that it seperates Puerto Ricans,Dominicans and Mexicans among other Latinos born abroad from those born in the United States. This way the numbers aren't skew with recent immigrants from each respective country when compairing educational attainments of each group.

So not to deter from the theme of this thread,we can continue this on another one and I can find a link if the study is online.

Why does this forum lack in posts? I can only speculate but I have felt for sometime now that these type of exchanges are passe. People prefer blogs or commenting on newspapers online on the latest topic that doesn't require more than two paragraphs to be wriiten or for analytical skills to be use.Also,it's much less time consumuing. Maybe we should write at a third grade level? I'm only kidding but even the NYT writes only at a 6th grade level.

Some of the most popular sites now are MySpace,Facebook or YouTube because they are more interactive and allow you reach out to a worldwide audience. These forums are very inpersonal so they're forgettable.After all to some people what we write are just words.

[L_F_Miranda]

RPR wrote:

"Why does this forum lack in posts? I can only speculate but I have felt for sometime now that these type of exchanges are passe. People prefer blogs or commenting on newspapers online on the latest topic that doesn't require more than two paragraphs to be wriiten or for analytical skills to be use."

I have to agree with you on ths one. Writing long drawn out responses on the web is a sure way of getting people to run the other way. Most people want a quick no nonsense response to very complicated subjects. "Dime y Diretes" is what most folks want. We're living in a sound bite, tit for tat generation.

Fluff seems to be the wave of the future until who knows when.

[JaneMas]

Blaming so-called liberals is a scapegoat. Both parties are to blame for the unsolved problems of "minorites" > recognized as such by the government rather than American Citizens. One political group does as much as it can while the other refuses to agree to the plan resulting in a failed policy... such as Welfare Reform. No REAL jobs were created to provide assimilation into the working class for these people leaving them worst off. What we fail to acknowledge is that not all human beings are capable of acheiving what you guys have. With that said the group that gets the short end of the stick is "the other citizens" vs the white citizens. Here in Allentown the so called ghetto is very small. Prior to ghettorization it was a small blue collar community with regular trash pick up, street sweeps and permanent jobs. In the last decade permanent jobs became permanent temp jobs resulting in lack of healthcare and security. The more ricans and dominicans arrived the less was the frequency of street cleaning. I must add their is a large visible percentage of poor whites among them. While the cost of living went up the starting salary of permanent temp stayed stagnant. What is true is half of the recent flow of Ricans who migrated here are noisy, argumentive and have no goals other than to survive.... but that is a reality city officials refused to work with. Can we add that they too are bitter? Where are the solutions vs the constant criticism? They too pay taxes in the numbers. Meanwhile the city decides to use the tax dollars to beautify a court house that needed no renovation. This money could of been put to use to served the very people the money came from.

[MimaPr]

Hi Guys, well like we boricuas say, "Tengo que meter la cuchara aqui", since I am the owner of a site that has been mentioned here and I would like to clarify some things that have been said. I hope I am not breaking any rule here, is so, I ask the moderators to delete my post.

Cafe Boricua is mostly in Spanish with one specific section for English speakers. If one writes in English in a Spanish section hell breaks loose. And to think of it, most are Statehooders, go figure. LOL

True Cafe Boricua is mostly Spanish, even thou I live in USA ,and many other members but if someone writes in English in the Spanish section, nothing happens. We have members that prefer to write English, but also we have many members from Puerto Rico that don't understand English, (can't read or write it)

False!! most of us are not Statehooders. We have members from all Political Parties, that's why the board is so popular.

I put as an example Cafe-Boricua. It has hundreds of hits per minute. Why? I don't know. Maybe they are high tech, we're low. They make use of a lot of visuals via YOU TUBE, we don't.

I am always looking for new things in my site, every board can be modified and I bet this one can also be modified. I have added many modified features , but my site is user friendly, anyone can learn easily and I am always there to help and my moderators.

Besides You Tube, we also have almost 1,000 games, casino, photo gallery, blogs, and a shoutbox. Monthly we have a political chat in the shoutbox. We also require that all new members have to post to have access to the board and some sections are not available until you reach at least 15 posts.



CafeBoricua

[Suki]

Mimapr said:

Besides You Tube, we also have almost 1,000 games, casino, photo gallery, blogs, and a shoutbox. Monthly we have a political chat in the shoutbox. We also require that all new members have to post to have access to the board and some sections are not available until you reach at least 15 posts.

I think a political shoutbox and requiring people to post more is a good idea. If people want to read they should consider participating more.

Hmmm, I joined Cafe Boricua a long time ago but lost my password and my life got busy!! In order for people to get to know you as a poster you have to be dedicated and consistent in some way. Miranda here has been a member since the year 2000. That is eight years. Many longtime members get attached to their 'writings' and revisit the site to look up old and familiar themes and create new threads with new themes. But one has to give the user some friendly features and new stimulations. Lol. Not the wrong kind of stimulation though. I hate trashy and repetitive themes and posters who constantly flame to get attention.

I like lively discussion and only a LOT of ACTIVE participants give you that.


Mimapr----please stick around and come and visit puertorico.com. We need people to come in and out and let their 'opinions' and so on be aired. It clears the stagnation.

Miranda, if fluff is the wave of the future then we need a 'fluffy' moderator. And that fluffy one is not SUKI. Lol. Many of us of all tastes and preferences are needed. The ones who don't mind fluff and soft stuff and who don't like heavy duty stuff need to get on here and moderate. I know my limits and what I am not good at:

1) A lot of superficial rap and writing without much going on in content is not for me.

2) People who don't come here for thought provoking debate but instead want to hang out and socialize only.

3) People who won't read more than five sentences at one time.

So if any of you know some willing person who is a member already who won't mind dealing with fluff and so on please refer them to admin and I will make sure they get first dibs at a moderator position.
Suki