Holy War!

[Raulgr]

As U.S. warships steam to the middle east and the specter of yet another “holy war” looms, the world waits expectantly to see which religious ideology will prevail this time – a 21st century replay of the Crusades. And, you folks at home, don’t be fooled by the suggestion that there is anything else at issue here. Islamic fundamentalism cannot allow the “corrupting influence” of any other theology or, for that matter, lack thereof, any more than 4th century orthodox christianity could allow the dissenting voices of the “heretics”. That is what this war is about, and that is ALL that it is about – THEOLOGY.

Now, I might be able to get behind Mr. Bush’s program, if our message for islamic fundamentalists was “Let’s CUT THE CRAP, shall we?” But, alas, he is hardly one to deliver THAT message. As a theist, the best that he has to offer is “OUR NONSENSE is BETTER than YOUR NONSENSE, nyah nayh nyah-nyah nyah”.

So, here’s one for you GROWN MEN in the listening audience: Which FANATICS are the more “EVIL”, islamic terrorists or anti-abortion murderers? For the solution to that riddle, we might look to a real PROPHET in the person of Carl Sagan, who, in his book “The Demon-Haunted World” noted that no irrationality is reconcilable with any other irrationality. Therefore, so long as the people of this planet cling to their various irrationalities, they will forever be in conflict.

In the meantime, in the words of that great philosopher and pundit, Yogi Berra, “it’s déjà vu all over again”!

[Eddier1]

Originally posted by Raulgr
As U.S. warships steam to the middle east and the specter of yet another “holy war” looms, the world waits expectantly to see which religious ideology will prevail this time – a 21st century replay of the Crusades. And, you folks at home, don’t be fooled by the suggestion that there is anything else at issue here. Islamic fundamentalism cannot allow the “corrupting influence” of any other theology or, for that matter, lack thereof, any more than 4th century orthodox christianity could allow the dissenting voices of the “heretics”. That is what this war is about, and that is ALL that it is about – THEOLOGY.

Now, I might be able to get behind Mr. Bush’s program, if our message for islamic fundamentalists was “Let’s CUT THE CRAP, shall we?” But, alas, he is hardly one to deliver THAT message. As a theist, the best that he has to offer is “OUR NONSENSE is BETTER than YOUR NONSENSE, nyah nayh nyah-nyah nyah”.

So, here’s one for you GROWN MEN in the listening audience: Which FANATICS are the more “EVIL”, islamic terrorists or anti-abortion murderers? For the solution to that riddle, we might look to a real PROPHET in the person of Carl Sagan, who, in his book “The Demon-Haunted World” noted that no irrationality is reconcilable with any other irrationality. Therefore, so long as the people of this planet cling to their various irrationalities, they will forever be in conflict.

In the meantime, in the words of that great philosopher and pundit, Yogi Berra, “it’s déjà vu all over again”!

Raul, I cannot agree with you that all this is about Theology. Rather, I think that the bottom line is really about O-I-L, Oil. Therefore, it follows that the economic determinant based on profit maximumization is at the bottom of all this.

Sure the Moslems flaunt their Theology, and that has been so since the earliest centuries starting approx. in 7 and 8 AD. But their "mission" cannot be divorced from the fact that since the time of the Phenocian Arab traders, the Arabs have been grounded in profit maximumization. In fact, they were the ones who started "business administration" and "accounting" with their abacuses and commercial elan.

Even when they build their fabulous palaces and Mosques, they could not hide their love opulence and riches by merely their doctrines of religion. Their mudajar architecture reveals their hidden economic agenda for the love of not Allah, but for money and commerce.

So I would amend your emphasis on Theology only, and add the Economic determinant to it, by once again mentioning the word: OIL!

Regards EddieR

[Raulgr]

Originally posted by Eddier1

Raul, I cannot agree with you that all this is about Theology. Rather, I think that the bottom line is really about O-I-L, Oil. Therefore, it follows that the economic determinant based on profit maximumization is at the bottom of all this. . .

Eddie,

Well, the U.S. dependence on oil from the middle east (current usage 70 percent?) makes abundantly clear its determination to protect its interests in that part of the world. It was that which caused me and others to call into question the "humanitarian" objective in the Desert Storm rescue of Kuwait from the Iraquis. Equally clear is the fact that the governments of oil producing nations in the region have a vital interest in oil.

Nevertheless, I see no connection to oil in either the recent or prior attacks on the world trade center, the attack at CIA headquarters, the embassy bombings in Uganda and Tanzania, the attack on the U.S. Destroyer Cole, and other foiled terrorist attempts aimed at the United States or its citizens. Suicide missions are the mark of fanatics. We have in the Taliban of Afghanistan and allied islamic fundamentalist groups in Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, the Sudan, Libya, and the Philippines exactly that kind of fanaticism. Usama Bin Laden has expressed deep resentment at what he regards as the desecration of islamic holy places by U.S. citizens and actions supported by the U.S. government. There is nothing in his statements, on the other hand, to suggest geo-political issues.

Therefore, at the end of the day, I expect that we will find that these terrorist acts are the handiwork of individuals operating from within a world-wide network of islamic fundamentalist organizations not connected in any direct way with governments of the nations in which they operate. The question that I pose is whether or not any nation that puts "in god we trust" on its means of monetary exchange can be adequately prepared to deal with religious fanaticism.

Regards, Raul

[Eddier1]

Originally posted by Raulgr

Eddie,

Well, the U.S. dependence on oil from the middle east (current usage 70 percent?) makes abundantly clear its determination to protect its interests in that part of the world. It was that which caused me and others to call into question the "humanitarian" objective in the Desert Storm rescue of Kuwait from the Iraquis. Equally clear is the fact that the governments of oil producing nations in the region have a vital interest in oil.

Nevertheless, I see no connection to oil in either the recent or prior attacks on the world trade center, the attack at CIA headquarters, the embassy bombings in Uganda and Tanzania, the attack on the U.S. Destroyer Cole, and other foiled terrorist attempts aimed at the United States or its citizens. Suicide missions are the mark of fanatics. We have in the Taliban of Afghanistan and allied islamic fundamentalist groups in Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, the Sudan, Libya, and the Philippines exactly that kind of fanaticism. Usama Bin Laden has expressed deep resentment at what he regards as the desecration of islamic holy places by U.S. citizens and actions supported by the U.S. government. There is nothing in his statements, on the other hand, to suggest geo-political issues.

Therefore, at the end of the day, I expect that we will find that these terrorist acts are the handiwork of individuals operating from within a world-wide network of islamic fundamentalist organizations not connected in any direct way with governments of the nations in which they operate. The question that I pose is whether or not any nation that puts "in god we trust" on its means of monetary exchange can be adequately prepared to deal with religious fanaticism.

Regards, Raul

Raul, I just heard on the latest breaking news that since the WTC terrorist attack there has been a sharp increase in Oil Prices,..ahaumm. Do you see what I mean about the bottom line being profit maximumization? The Arab countries know that terrorism aids them in the economics of doing business in their Oil, and raking in huge profits. So it was too during the Desert Storm war, which you mentioned in relation to the oil producers.

[Raulgr]

Originally posted by Eddier1

Raul, I just heard on the latest breaking news that since the WTC terrorist attack there has been a sharp increase in Oil Prices,..ahaumm. Do you see what I mean about the bottom line being profit maximumization? The Arab countries know that terrorism aids them in the economics of doing business in their Oil, and raking in huge profits. So it was too during the Desert Storm war, which you mentioned in relation to the oil producers.

Eddie,

Well, at this point, of course, I have to allow the possibility that your assessment is correct. For myself, a conspiracy theory is usually the last one that I'll reach for. On the other hand, it could just be a matter of human nature and opportunism. After all, there were also reports of price gouging at the pumps in Cleveland in the several days following the disaster.

One thing seems certain. We're in for a bumpy ride.

Regards, Raul

[El_Jibaro]

[b][i]Eddie picks out from the crap the straw that he doesn't digest and then goes on to eat all he can...

So much from the two armchair philosophers .

[Raulgr]

Originally posted by El_Jibaro
Eddie picks out from the crap the straw that he doesn't digest and then goes on to eat all he can...

So much from the two armchair philosophers .

Manuel,

What part did you particularly like? Let me put it another way, just in case you missed the POINT.

Clearly, this newly declared war is a VICTIMS versus THEOLOGY conflict (not a contest of theologies, this time).

Further, realizing that a whole lot of folks have died RIGHT HERE IN THE AMERICAS at the hands of christians, we can only conclude that, this time, the SHOE is on the OTHER FOOT.

And this present conflict is not without precedent. In the 11th through 13th centuries another set of victims set out for the middle east to stem the tide of Moslem violence.

Now, this current set of victims apparently still doesn't get it. (Some of us do have the formula for not being victims of metaphysical fanaticism -- something to the effect that you reap what you sew.)

After all, when you bring nonsense to the world, you can't very well complain about being victimized by it, can you? (That was the point.)