Go Back   PuertoRico.com Discussion Forum > Society > Politics
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14th September 2006, 08:04
L_F_Miranda L_F_Miranda is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 1,057
¿Llegaremos ser el ESTADO 51?

Cómo llegamos a la autogestión estadista
Por: Juan M. García Passalacqua
Analista político

El 14 de enero del 2009 se reúne la Asamblea Legislativa de Puerto Rico y su Resolución Número 1 será para autoproclamar a Puerto Rico un estado de la Unión Americana. Ya no queda duda que ése es el significado de un voto por el Partido Nuevo Progresista en las elecciones del 2008. Así lo publicó su presidente Pedro Rosselló el 7 de septiembre: "Estamos advirtiendo que ese referéndum va a ser durante las elecciones". ¿Cómo hemos llegado aquí? Voy a explicarlo.

Lo que en Puerto Rico se ha llamado –erróneamente—el "issue" del status ha sido realmente una discusión sobre cuál ha de ser nuestra relación con los Estados Unidos. Más que legal o constitucional, la cuestión ha sido siempre una cuestión de símbolos. La palabra maldita la originó el traductor francés del Tratado de París cuando los negociadores españoles no sabían inglés y los negociadores estadounidenses no sabían español. Nació de un malentendido. Ese malentendido se derivó siempre de la visión y la acción de los Otros, de España y de los Estados Unidos. Ahora, por vez primera en nuestra historia, el anexionismo quiere cambiar toda esa historia de más de un siglo –con una autoproclamación unilateral nuestra. Me parece bien. Creo así porque retará a los Estados Unidos a admitir una nación dentro de otra nación. Y dirán –NO.

Vamos a hacer un poco de historia para entender qué los ha llevado a ellos a tomarse ese riesgo final. Nuestra clase política partidista nació en 1864, y veamos las etapas de su discurso:

*La provincia ultramarina y el abolicionismo.-

Nuestra clase política electoral nace bajo el signo asignado por España de "provincia ultramarina", y dentro de ella revela su rebelión por vez primera postulando el abolicionismo de la esclavitud contra los designios de la clase política española –y triunfa. Son los delegados de esta provincia los que promueven la abolición con o sin indemnización en el Congreso español, y logran su victoria.

*El país y sus residentes los puertorriqueños.-

El triunfo del abolicionismo criollo permite que nos autodenominemos un "país" distinto de España, y que sus "residentes" nos llamemos y nos llame la metrópoli –puertorriqueños. Crece la diferencia.

*La patria chiquita regional y su personalidad.-

Los hechos reseñados hacen necesaria una nueva autodefinición, y ya hablamos de nuestra propia patria, chiquita dicen ellos, frente a la Madre Patria España. Ante y dentro de la cual somos una mera "región", pero que tiene su propia "personalidad" (es la tímida palabra escogida para describir nuestra nacionalidad). Ese es el fundamento simbólico del autonomismo de fines del siglo XIX.

¡Ah!, pero todo cambia en 1898. El 25 de julio, luego de detenerlos en Asomante, nos ocupan los estadounidenses, pues el 12 de agosto de ese año –se rinde España y nos abandona.

*El pueblo que es una comunidad.-

Entre 1900 y 1922 los Estados Unidos no saben qué hacer con su recién adquirida colonia. En la Ley Foraker de 1900 reconocen que somos un "pueblo" pero se arrepienten en 1917 y deciden que somos una "comunidad de ciudadanos norteamericanos". En 1922 el Tribunal Supremo de Estados Unidos en una decisión unánime de su Juez Presidente dicta que el habernos hecho ciudadanos "no" nos incorpora como territorio en camino de hacernos estado de la Unión porque somos una comunidad –extranjera.

*El "self-government" para los "coterráneos" del territorio.-

En la más abyecta autonegación de nuestra clase política partidista, y copiándose de lo que está ocurriendo en Irlanda con Inglaterra,ésta se limita a "pedir" al Congreso de los Estados Unidos el autogobierno de los habitantes del territorio no incorporado.

*La patria es nación y el principio de las nacionalidades.-

La decisión del Otro en 1922 gatilla –la autoafirmación unilateral. Un novedoso Partido Nacionalista –se autoproclama- y se define como una nación. Empiezan autoproclamaciones, y será –una más- la esperada en enero del 2009 por el movimiento anexionista. Cuando un pueblo se autoproclama –sea lo que sea—está afirmándose a sí mismo. Así que bienvenida sea.

¡Ah!, pero la Guerra Mundial interrumpe el proceso histórico que estoy narrando, y lo va a cambiar todo, logrando separar lo político de lo cultural que habían estado unidos hasta entonces.

*La asociación por convenio.-

Luis Muñoz Marín, haciendo de tripas corazones y de un limón una limonada, se inventa una alegada asociación por convenio que no es otra cosa que una metáfora poética para la colonia. Y ahí hemos vivido por más de medio siglo.

¡Ah!, pero vuelven a cambiar las cosas con el reto de los triunfos anexionistas de 1968, 1976, 1980, 1992, y 1996. En el 2004 el anexionismo triunfa en los pueblos y la Legislatura.

*El territorio no-incorporado colonial.-

Por fin habla la Esfinge y la Casa Blanca rinde un informe en el 2005 que dice que –hemos sido y somos desde 1898—un mero territorio no-incorporado sujeto a los poderes plenarios del Congreso de los Estados Unidos. Y gatilla en respuesta con toda probabilidad –el último triunfo anexionista en el 2008.

*Autogestión estadista, ningunismo, o afirmación nacional.-

Se ha quebrantado por fin la maldición del status. Ahora las opciones para el 2006 son otras: la autogestión estadista, el ningunismo de los populares, o la –también autogestada- afirmación nacional. Ante el ningunismo de Aníbal Acevedo Vilá y su mentada Asamblea Constitucional de Status (que no decide nada si no se autoproclama en su primer día de sesión soberana), hemos de vivir tiempos nuevos de aquí a las elecciones del 2008, con una nueva configuración simbólica.

Viene el maravilloso reto de la autodefinición como Estado de la Unión. ¡Ganen ustedes! ¡Vayan y vengan y nos detengan! ¡O que ganen los ningunistas! ¡Promuevan nuestros dos partidos principales –la humillación final! O nos autonegamos a nosotros mismos o nos rechazan los poderes que son en el Mar Caribe. El 2008 será el año –de la humillación final.


Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14th September 2006, 19:23
Yujike Yujike is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,595
Republica Dominicana: Estado 51

Como van las cosas, primero sera un estado la Republica Dominicana que Puerto Rico.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15th September 2006, 19:17
Suki Suki is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,474
I think there is a technical problem, many users are getting their posts duplicated. I will delete your extra Yujike.

Miranda I have a favor to ask you, if you could reach POV and tell him if he knows of other conservative debaters that might want to join in on the fora and discuss status questions? Or if he might want a debate with you? This forum needs less emotional outbursts and more hardcore civilized debate.

POV's view points are well written.

Miranda, when are you going to reply to my barney cartoon thread? Lol.

Luis Francisco please email me you are a child psychologist by profession right? I have need of your advice.

Is the PNP really going to declare Puerto Rico the 51st state without it being ratified by congress or the executive in the USA? Hmmm.



__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16th September 2006, 03:33
Eddier1 Eddier1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Americas
Posts: 3,231
Question

Quote:
Miranda I have a favor to ask you, if you could reach POV and tell him if he knows of other conservative debaters that might want to join in on the fora and discuss status questions? Or if he might want a debate with you?
So POV needs to be resurrected and become the specter of anti-communism on this forum? Is that it Suki? Or is it because you like the way he writes in Spanish?

He never writes much, and ignores any critical analysis of what he posts. IMHO, he contributes NOTHING in the way of political analysis and is basically a monologist. And I had it with him in the old political forum on AOL, and he ran away from there too since he came to present his monologes and not to debate the status problems of Puerto Rico.

I understand how you would prefer a "quietist" forum to manage, but I don't think that is realistic, not with the stuff that LF has posted from the PR journalist. The "nigunista" position reveals the 'La, La Land' that PR has been for over a century, and the fact is that until PR (S) start paying taxes (tribute) to the U.S. goliate del norte, the statehooders don't have a snowball chance in hell of getting realistic progress towards PR becoming the 51st state. And then there is the big problem that the U.S,. will NOT accept a state within the states that is a Spanish speaking state. It won't wash until all Puertorriquenos abandon the Spanish language and speak English as the native language. Until that happens in the Never Never land, the statehooders are merely 'hollering up a hollow' and in frustration have turned to trying to corrupt Puerto Rico by assisting in making the narco traffikers more comfortable than they already are by giving them a statehooder party which will make PR an abyss of decadence by catering to the needs of the narco traffikers.. That shows how desperate the PNP has become!

Suki, IMHO, PR is too volatile for the 'tea party or coffee klotch' type of discussions that you prefer on this forum.
But lots of luck and also with your problem which I sense causes you to ask Luis Francisco for his professional advice as a child psychologist. Maybe he does pro bono work....but really Suki, he is trying as hard as he can to bring light on the political problems of Puerto Rico -- isn't that great of him?
__________________
E.1: TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK - V.I. Lenin
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 16th September 2006, 09:43
Suki Suki is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,474
Eddie, the forum is producing duplicates on postings. I deleted you extra, same as Yujike.

In terms of POV, he does write well. And I read him thanking you for saying he wrote well. That shows he doesn't take things in the wrong way. He and others are going to be against independence and against socialism and communism. It would be a good thing to have passionate, sincere and open and intelligent debate about EVERYTHING that is going on in Puerto Rican politics. Many posters of the same ideological perspective agreeing on all things is not only boring, but you don't learn anything from it, and people with fine debating skills rise to the challenge. And I have a feeling if you have critical thinking skills, and are honest about what your political party has erred on, it makes it much more interesting. You are for example Eddie, quite informed on the entire history of your political perspective. It makes great reading and learning and inspires debate in people. As long as they don't become stalkers, harrassers and anti-social then challenging the perspectives is the ESSENCE of why people debate in the first place.

I want to make sure we get lots of exchanges. I just don't want sandeces taking over like has happened to so many others in the past.

Miranda's posts are a contribution to this forum. Lol. I like to read his direct take on things. Narco traffic is making a horrible reality of the island. And frankly Eddie, I have discussed this on other forums in depth. But, I would like to say that after thinking extremely hard about the depths of social poison drugs have on society, I have come to the conclusion that negotiating, jailing and etc. with the hardcore types just doesn't work. I hate to say it, but I am leaning towards capital punishment for anyone with low life thoughts of perpetuating drug addiction in society for profit. They got to go. I have to be true to my consciousness. That the PNP is an integral part of the whole thing did not surprise me. I heard of it a long time ago in the most unusual way. I hope to talk to you about that someday Eddie.

POV, doesn't stay long for debates. You knew him on aol?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 16th September 2006, 14:23
Eddier1 Eddier1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Americas
Posts: 3,231
Quote:
POV, doesn't stay long for debates. You knew him on aol?
Yes, indeed, and he got angry easily if a poster criticized what he wrote. However, in those early years, conservatives were hard to find on the AOL politics forum, and so he could not, like here, diffuse his anger by referring to his critic in the third person, and his audience being characters like the now gone BoricuaFL2, AR, and the on the cusp to leave El Jibaro, also Stanley can be thrown in the mix of POV's 'dittoheads'.

On aol, there were many favoring independence for Puerto Rico, and one of the most prominent of the liberals was RaulMax who lives in Puerto Rico, and was treated badly for his views during the time of the 'carpetas' in which there was dossiers created for all independentists making it difficult for them to find jobs or continue in the jobs they had. Later, as you know, an effort was made to pay restitution for such oppression, and if the afflicted one applied to the gov't, they received a sum of money as compensation. But we hear no more about that, and whether or not all were paid their due. The program seems to be now like a stone that was dropped into the deep ocean, making no more more surface ripples.

POV did more debating with RaulMax than anyone except a Boricua girl living in New York City. She was so furious at his treating her like a piece of trash that she once wrote me an email in which she swore that if she met him in person, she and her friends would jump him!

That's the way it goes, Suki, and POV is still the same abrupt individual that he was then, and his few posts on this forum proves that. You have to come up with something a lot better than him, if you want stimulating intelligent debate on the forum from conservatives and those on the left of the political spectrum.

LF Miranda could fit the bill, since he is still a globalist, and often has quoted from the work of an outstanding political analyst,viz Michael Linden, if that is his name, who has predicted the American Union and the globalisation that is currently going on leading towards one world gov't.

Nonetheless, the fly in the ointment of a good debater is that LF is for the Independence of Puerto Rico. Aha... is he playing two ends against the middle? Only time will tell, but in the meantime he can't qualify as a clear and distinct conservative who is moderate, unless the moderate conservatives are now backing Independence for colonial unincorporated territories like P.R..

BTW, I think I won't post anymore until the techs fix the forums so that those who write replies to threads have their screenames afixed to the thread as having made a reply to it. As it now stands, it smacks of elitism that only the one who starts the thread is recognized in the header and not those who post replies under the headings.

A discussion board is one thing, and a message board is another thing, and the two ought not be confused! Please let me know by email when things get straightened out, Suki. Thank you.
__________________
E.1: TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK - V.I. Lenin
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 16th September 2006, 14:24
Eddier1 Eddier1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Americas
Posts: 3,231
Quote:
POV, doesn't stay long for debates. You knew him on aol?
Yes, indeed, and he got angry easily if a poster criticized what he wrote. However, in those early years, conservatives were hard to find on the AOL politics forum, and so he could not, like here, diffuse his anger by referring to his critic in the third person, and his audience being characters like the now gone BoricuaFL2, AR, and the on the cusp to leave El Jibaro, also Stanley can be thrown in the mix of POV's 'dittoheads'.

On aol, there were many favoring independence for Puerto Rico, and one of the most prominent of the liberals was RaulMax who lives in Puerto Rico, and was treated badly for his views during the time of the 'carpetas' in which there was dossiers created for all independentists making it difficult for them to find jobs or continue in the jobs they had. Later, as you know, an effort was made to pay restitution for such oppression, and if the afflicted one applied to the gov't, they received a sum of money as compensation. But we hear no more about that, and whether or not all were paid their due. The program seems to be now like a stone that was dropped into the deep ocean, making no more more surface ripples.

POV did more debating with RaulMax than anyone except a Boricua girl living in New York City. She was so furious at his treating her like a piece of trash that she once wrote me an email in which she swore that if she met him in person, she and her friends would jump him!

That's the way it goes, Suki, and POV is still the same abrupt individual that he was then, and his few posts on this forum proves that. You have to come up with something a lot better than him, if you want stimulating intelligent debate on the forum from conservatives and those on the left of the political spectrum.

LF Miranda could fit the bill, since he is still a globalist, and often has quoted from the work of an outstanding political analyst,viz Michael Linden, if that is his name, who has predicted the American Union and the globalisation that is currently going on leading towards one world gov't.

Nonetheless, the fly in the ointment of a good debater is that LF is for the Independence of Puerto Rico. Aha... is he playing two ends against the middle? Only time will tell, but in the meantime he can't qualify as a clear and distinct conservative who is moderate, unless the moderate conservatives are now backing Independence for colonial unincorporated territories like P.R..

BTW, I think I won't post anymore until the techs fix the forums so that those who write replies to threads have their screenames afixed to the thread as having made a reply to it. As it now stands, it smacks of elitism that only the one who starts the thread is recognized in the header and not those who post replies under the headings.

A discussion board is one thing, and a message board is another thing, and the two ought not be confused! Please let me know by email when things get straightened out, Suki. Thank you.
__________________
E.1: TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK - V.I. Lenin
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:39.