The problem with L_ F_ Miranda

[Yujike]

O son blanquitos o son cafres!!

[L_F_Miranda]

Stanley said: Have you been to Miami lately? No one in Miami speaks English! Miami has become a Latin city.

Similar to what happened in New York at the turn of the 19th century, massive immigration from one predominate cultural group has transformed Miami and Orlando into Habana and San Juan in the everglades. But the future will be different.

In 1900 New York was a Yiddish speaking city, at least in the huge Jewish ghettos. There was Yiddish theater, schools and newspapers, giving the Waspi Gringos the impression that Jews would soon take over and run them out of town.

Jews eventually did take control of the city's political machine but in the process they assimilated. Jews who control New York today are what some folkoric Jews call, Jew haters, because they've adopted the culture and mores of the American ruling class. They've become Waspish Jews looking down at their folkloric brothers and sisters!

Same will happen with Spanish Miami and Central Florida. As soon as immigration begins to ebb, things will settle. It already is happening. Most second generation kids are bilingual and the third generation only speaks English. If you "look white" the process is faster.

Nonetheless the Caribbean Spanish imprint will remain. Cuban / Rican Floridineans will continue to dance salsa and eat rice and beans. The men will still color their mustaches jet black and the women will still dress like Charo, but when asking for alcapurrias it will be in English. LOL

[RPR]

RPR, From What I gather I guess you know me from other forums. In fact you might have several internet handles yourself. I for one am not really here to let everyone know where you live, narrate your life history or find out how many times you have sex. That is one aspect of small town culture I've never shared. The reasons you, like Eddier and Suki, keep taking out personal aspects of my life beats me, what is the purpose? To put me in my place? "Para que no se la eche mucho, sabemos de donde sale........LOL Very childish behavior, but what else can I say.

Boy, no need to go on a tangent about internet ethics . I use to frequent AOL message boards until they became iinundated with the lowest common denominator. I searched for other PR themed forums and I found this one about five years ago. This was a thriving place back then. I never posted though because I forgot about the site. Till I found it again not too long ago. Anyhow, I recognized your writings from the AOL boards and thats how I know you're other handle.I'm sure you remember the likes of Waldy F,Candi Iskinder from the Hispanic Online/Aol Boards.

The only thing I ask is that people just respond to the ideas I write, is that too much to ask? Suki as moderator you should ENFORCE THIS TO A T!

Wow..now who's being childish lol? People are influenced by their experiences and their enviroment. It shapes one's persona so thats why I brought up your locale. A country of this size has its many regionalisms with populations from diverse white ethnic groups. Southern blacks are culturally different than blacks in any other region etc.





Yes, I use CAFRE as a very loose word. It entered the Puerto Rican dialect sometime in the 60's basically meaning, vulgar, de classé, coarse manners, rude, not on par with a middle class mainstream. Therefore many things would fall under this category, meaning that the word has many contexes.

Yes, I know that it originally came from the the description of an African tribe of sorts, but the word has evolved in Puerto Rico to encompass a wider meaning and a wider audience.

No, its not just used for Blacks, although the initial intent might have been. For a example, it's common in Puerto Rico to say, "Anna Nichole Smith es una CAFRETONA", and obviously she's not Black!

When Bill Clinton got his very public BJ in the White House you would hear conservative people say, "Que Cafrería, hasta done hemos llegao."

When Yukije gets all wound up and starts with sheenanigans, in Puerto Rico Stanley and I might say, "Que Cafre." In this case maybe meaning a very uneducated and angry style and out of the mainstream, certainly not meaning, Black.

When Immus said that awful thing about the Rutgers basketball team I heard friends mention , "Mira con que cafrerías se puso ese gringo, se merce todo lo que le pasó."

These are the cultural Nuances that a great majority of Puerto Ricans know, I just placed them here as a point of clarification.

Thanks for the clarification. Although I already knew what Cafre meant, just didn't know that it was originally an African tribe. I bet most don't know this either. There was a time where I used the word loosely myself in a playful way with peers but I grew out of this. The has lost its popularity after peaking in the 90's.

[RPR]

Estos me sacaron cuchillas mas de una vez. También usaban muchas prendas y brazaletes. Sin embargo, habían varias escuelas públicas en donde se enseñaba y no todo el mundo era cafretón. Hoy en día la cosa es diferente. Hoy en día no hubiera podido asistir a la escuela pública. Las cosas han empeorado.

Ahora entiendo su preocupacion con los nuyoricans. Dicen que las experiencas de la niñez son las que mas impacta a uno. Tengo una teoria sobre la crisis criminal que se vive en la isla. Creo que es muy evidente el choque de los " have and have nots" hoy mas que nunca. Los valores en la sociedad han cambiado drasticamente. Hay una cultura de satisfacción inmediata conbinada con el dinero de las drogas.


La música es lo de menos. Cuando era joven teniamos roqueros y salseros (cocolos). Hoy dia hay roqueros y regatoneros. Sin duda alguna la música dominante es la del regatón. El rock en español sigue vivo en una minoría de la juventud puertorriqueña, pero no es como antes. Pero lo importante no es la música, lo importante es que el pueblo se está africanizanbdo y se ha distanciado del resto de latinoamérica.



Stanley, ahora te digo yo a ti, hablamos español...se oye musica en español mas que nunca (ya no hay una emisora que toque musica en ingles)ahora con Univision estamos a lo mejicano a la buena o a la mala y ni que se diga de los dominicanos. No se como tu puedes decir que estamos africanizado...

[RPR]

Have you been to Miami lately? No one in Miami speaks English! Miami has become a Latin city. I would feel funny if I was a full blooded gringo. It is very likely I would think something nasty about the people that have invaded my city.

I understand the dynamic that has transformed Miami and is beginning to take hold in Central Florida. I remember about seven years ago someone who had one too many,try to get my attention and when I ignored him, rudely asked if I spoke Spanish in a disaparaging way, he was blond and blue eye, I told him if he spoke German and his friend laughed. This in turn angered him, and he mentioned "this is not Miami". What I don't get is how Miami is not portray as the Spanish speaking Ghetto that it is moreso than East LA or the Bronx. Yes, I visited South Beach a few months ago but you couldn't pay me to actually live in Miami.

[Stanley]

Ahora entiendo su preocupacion con los nuyoricans. Dicen que las experiencas de la niñez son las que mas impacta a uno. Tengo una teoria sobre la crisis criminal que se vive en la isla. Creo que es muy evidente el choque de los " have and have nots" hoy mas que nunca. Los valores en la sociedad han cambiado drasticamente. Hay una cultura de satisfacción inmediata conbinada con el dinero de las drogas.

Claro, recuerdo esos matones de la escuela pública, les llamaban "conservativos" (en vez de conservadores). Mientras que yó era roquero de cabello largo.

Fíjate, nunca me preocupé por los nuyorican hasta que entré a este foro. Luego de un tiempo noté que había una facción nuyorican con conceptos muy equivocados sobre PR. Recuerdo un nuyorican muzulman miembro del grupo de Farakán que trataba de aplicar su filosofía afro-americana-muzulmana a PR. Busca los posteos de "BrotherHector". La verdad es que este tipo me hacía reir con su ignorancia hacia PR.


Poco a poco llegué a la conclusión de que muchos de estos jamás habían vivido en la isla y no tenían puta idea de que hablaban. Pero, lo que mas molestaba era la insistencia en usar filosofía afro-americana con respecto a la cultura del puertorriqueño.

De vez encuando aparecía un nuyorican que preguntaba que nombre Taino era el mas lindo para su bebé. Me acuerdo como como alguién le recomendo que llamaran al bebé Guanín o Agueybaná. Esta gente pensaba que usar nombre Taino era muy común en la isla.

En otra ocasión alguién preguntó si había internet en la isla.

Stanley, ahora te digo yo a ti, hablamos español...se oye musica en español mas que nunca (ya no hay una emisora que toque musica en ingles)ahora con Univision estamos a lo mejicano a la buena o a la mala y ni que se diga de los dominicanos. No se como tu puedes decir que estamos africanizado...

La música roquera ya no se escucha. En mi juventud WIAC tocaba rock todo el tiempo y habián bailes dondequiera con grupos roqueros. Eso ya se acabó. Hoy en día el rock es un gusto para la minoría.

Sin embargo, hay estaciones dedicadas un 100% al regatón. El regatón es bién nuyorican. Estos copian la manera de caminar, el cruzar de los brazos, el vestuaje, ect del afro-americano.