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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 16th May 2007, 12:10
JaneMas JaneMas is offline
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Hilary and Obama voted for an unjust war. What a difference a few years make.
RPR I thought Obama did not vote for this unjust war? As for Hillary and the others who did, wasn't it based on false FBI/INTEL WMD information on Iraq provided by Bush's Administration? If someone were to provided false police information on a crime would I not vote guilty as part of a jury to sentence that person? And if I later find that information to be false am I wrong to acknowledge I voted guilty based on lies and not be consciously at fault, but deliberately tricked, intentionally framed, setup, lied to, etc.? Of course not! The focus of anger and attacks should be on the crooks who lied to win their case.

BARACK OBAMA'S STIRRING 2002 SPEECH AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR

"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I Don't Oppose All Wars

I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

Opposed to Dumb, Rash Wars

I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

On Saddam Hussein

Now let me be clear: I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power.... The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors...and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences.

I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars. So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president.

You Want a Fight, President Bush?

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure that...we vigorously enforce a nonproliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair."
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 16th May 2007, 13:44
L_F_Miranda L_F_Miranda is offline
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Stanley

When I was younger the word to identify us was "Latino." Eventually, as if by magic, this word began to take on social class conotations. Today Latino is used by Nuyoricans and their sympathizers, and Hispanic is used by the more middle class among us.

Gringos, on the average, aren't a sophisticated lot either. I see Gringos as those you see in the Country Music awards and those driving around in pick-up trucks and party in a field at night with all the lights on. To these types Spanish means anyone speaking Spanish or Spanglish, they can't tell the difference. Spanish is also eating tacos, chalupas, girls dressed like Charo and chubby guys with a large black tinted moustache. LOL

European Spaniards get incensed to be clumped in with these streotypes, buy hey, thats middle America!

About Obama, to us he's Black, he's not even Jabao. To Cubans he's not mulato, he's Black, because he has knappy hair. To Dominicans he's Indio, because he looks like them. LOL In White America Obama is Black, not even "looks white". He subscribes to the Gringo one drop rule, one percent of black blood makes you Black!

In fact this rule is so strict that people like Mariah Carey or Derek Jeter, two "looks white" and can pass as white in Puerto Rico, are Black in the U.S., no if's or but's, Go figure.

What bothers most Blacks is Obama's accent and above all his STYLE, its awfully White! Its a product of being educated in White schools, he can't help it. MMMMMMMMM would he be more accepted if he wore a du-rag and shown a row gold teeth? Oprah Winfrey also fits into this Middle class mold, which is questionable as a "REAL BLACK", what ever that is.

"Los negros tienen un problem muy Serio."

Because Nuyoricans have adopted the Black American cosmo vision they tend to view their world on similar terms.

When arriving to Puerto Rico many Nuyoricans are thrown into a racial/ethnic crisis. What strikes many as a bomb is that they see "Ricans acting White".

They're really reacting to a middle class style which is Western oriented and not ghetto, thus disrupting their normal flow of things. Because they've also adopted language from Blacks to describe themselves they run into trouble when socializing with the locals. In Puerto Rico their racial world view is not understood and they are quickly dismised as "clase baja." On the other hand, any island Rican who questions their Black view is at once rejected as a racist, White lover , or Blanquito.

"Two worlds running parallel to each other and trying to share one culture."

On another note........

I'd be surprised if Obama is nominated, although it would be very interesting. Hillary might have a chance but its a long shot. This wench is a flip flopper, one day she says one thing and another day, another.

But what most liberal Puerto Ricans should know about this wench is that she fought her husband tooth and nail when he was going to pardon the jailed Puerto Rican Nationalists. He went along and did it anyway.
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Old 16th May 2007, 14:11
Suki Suki is offline
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Look Miranda, why don't you accept that Hillary has to sing this tune.....it sort of dovetails nicely with what you say about Middle America and so on.....

Let me redo the lyrics (feel free to sing along Miranda) especially the new lyrics I adapted for you.....

Hillary can sing:

I gotta stand by my man....

No matter who he might be cheatin with....

Cuz he's the man who will help me get where I need to go......

Stand by that man....

No matter how much he needs to lead a double life......

The important thing is for me to understand.....

That I might be the next prez someday....and I done invested too many years of my life....on that man.....who can't keep his hands to himself....

Tammy help me!!

C'mon Miranda sing along......

Press down below and see the song and sing the tune....Remember all those lovely folks in Middle America who call us "Spanish". I just get so nostalgic...

YouTube - tammy wynette stand by your man
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Old 16th May 2007, 14:19
Stanley Stanley is offline
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What I am trying to say is that Obama is not your typical black American.

In a sense any Nuyorican knows the American black experience better than Obama.

I understand that Obama did not spend much time with his African father who left when he was two. His mother married an Indonesian (once you go black you never go back-----LOL).

The bio states he struggled with his identity and did drugs. This guy did not spend his childhood with American blacks---so in my book he has not been Nuyoricanized. Despite what Miranda says----Obama is not black.

According to the 2000 US census 80.5% of PR people are white. OK, so maybe Obama is not Puerto Rican------my mistake.



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Old 16th May 2007, 14:52
L_F_Miranda L_F_Miranda is offline
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Talking

Stanley said,

What I am trying to say is that Obama is not your typical black American.

In a sense any Nuyorican knows the American black experience better than Obama.


In other words, Obama is an OREO COOKIE.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 16th May 2007, 19:16
JaneMas JaneMas is offline
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Stanley:

What I am trying to say is that Obama is not your typical black American.

In a sense any Nuyorican knows the American black experience better than Obama.
I'd have to disagree. Not all Blacks and Nuyoricans know about the "EXPERIENCE" I believe the term represents.

More than half of today's generation in question knows little, if any, about "the experience". The words "struggle for equality" to them is equivalent to the memory and education of reading history out of a book!

Just because your grandfather marched for civil rights doesn't mean YOU march, which means just because you are black does not mean you experienced the slave trade, excluded from living in certains areas, unequal pay, beatings, nor does because your ancestors were one means you INHERIT the right to claim "Black Experience" and exclude other blacks born and raised in the same era as you.

Obama was born and raised in the USA with physical attributes which identifies him as a black man under US classification. He has expericenced the same racists situations any black person his age has experience in this country which qualifies him to talk about the Black Experience during his life.


Quote:
I understand that Obama did not spend much time with his African father who left when he was two. His mother married an Indonesian (once you go black you never go back-----LOL).
"The Candidate
How the son of a Kenyan economist became an Illinois Everyman.
by William Finnegan

The climax of Barack Obama’s 1995 memoir, “Dreams from My Father,” occurs in rural Kenya when the author sits between the graves of his father and his grandfather and weeps. Obama, then in his late twenties, hardly knew his father and never met his grandfather, but in the course of writing the book he had learned their stories in devastating detail. Both were proud, ambitious men who travelled far from the Luo-speaking villages where they grew up—indeed, Obama’s grandmother still has her son’s Harvard diploma hanging in her house nearby. Their respective struggles in the world ended painfully, in bitter loneliness. Beside their graves, Obama, a middle-class American, both mourns and, for the first time, understands his African forebears."


OBAMA:
I'm fighting to make sure that our schools are adequately funded all across the country. With the inequities of relying on property taxes and people who are born in wealthy districts getting better schools than folks born in poor districts and that's now how it's supposed to be. That's not the American way. but I'll tell you what -- even as I fight on behalf of more education funding, more equity, I have to also say that , if parents don't turn off the television set when the child comes home from school and make sure they sit down and do their homework and go talk to the teachers and find out how they're doing, and if we don't start instilling a sense in our young children that there is nothing to be ashamed about in educational achievement, I don't know who taught them that reading and writing and conjugating your verbs was something white.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 21st May 2007, 15:34
Yujike Yujike is offline
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People call me hispanic (US Census Bureau came up with this beauty) but I hate any names with "panic" in it. People call me Puerto Rican but besides the populares "cedula de ciudadania puertorriquena" they are talking so much about, we don't exist as puertorricans (maybe culturally) constitutionally nor legally since we are American citizens ( so reads my passport). People call me a (not to my face) SPIC but that was coined for Spanish-Portuguese_Italian_Catholic individuals by the White_Anglo_Saxon_Protestant and the only one that applies to me is the Catholic moniquer. They call me Spanish but I tell them they are not English because they speak English, so I'm not the language I speak. In reality they are calling me a Spaniard but I'm not that either (Thank God!!!) I was born in the Americas, so were my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents all the way back to 1528, I live in North America in the American Continent, so I am (drum roll please)........................................ AN AMERICAN.
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