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Class and EDUCATION.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 19th June 2007, 16:44
Stanley Stanley is offline
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I agree with Suki and Miranda (in another post). People of similar social class recognize each other and it seems to be more than just ethnicity. Quite often some people are uncomfortable with folks of lower or higher class, particularly when the difference is quite large.


However, like Miranda says, class is much more than money. But, there is more--------sometimes families like the one Suki and Yautía know have kids that fall of he wagon and end up acting cafre. Paris Hilton is a good example. My wife just told me she did not finish high school and is nothing mote than a skinny woman full of complejo. She had every plastic surgery in the book and is still acomplejá because she has huge feet with stringy long toes.

I would not want to have a conversation with a rich woman that never had to work or do dishes. A woman like that would put me to sleep. I rather talk to a self made multimillionaire like Gates. IN my eyes a woman like that is just one step above Paris Hilton (cafre number 1 in USA).

Anyway, the above is a moot point. In my social circle I will never meet anyone like that.
I say----abolish the inheritance law and let everybody start from scratch. How is that for socialism? However one gets to keep whatever one makes in a lifetime till the time of death. At that time the money goes to the state and the offspring starts from scratch again. I have no problem with that form of socialism.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 19th June 2007, 19:05
L_F_Miranda L_F_Miranda is offline
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Suki, getting even with Miranda and Stanley said,

Stanley would be a middle class cafre one step removed from el fanguito to someone like that Mexican family I described. So would you Miranda.

Andale Suki, that's below the belt...........LOL

In other words , Class is relative.

To many Paris Hilton and Anna Nichole Smith are upper class. They are celebrities in a celebrity driven world, thus CLASSY. Why are they percieved as upper class by most of middle America, and Puerto Ricans too?

Because they have money, dress well, live in Hollywood, were frequent vistors to Las Vegas, had Classy cars like Cadillac Escalades, and are dined and wined by the rich and famous. To most Americans, that's CLASSY!

To other people thats CAFRE, go figure.

Color and class are also inter-related.

In Haiti the lighter skinned you are the more classier you are.

In Santo Domingo class is to be as white as you can get. No one wants to be labeled Black. That's why most Dominicans classify themselves, INDIO. Sammy Sosa is Indio on his passport, no kidding.

On the other hand, INDIO in Latin America is a mark of low class.

In the U.S. Class is to belong to the WASP group or be a WASP wanna-be. For example, Jews who dress up in Traditional clothes, like the Hassidim, are looked down upon by those Jews who are WASP wanna be's. If you are too religious you are lower.

Who is a WASP wanna be?

You don't have to be Protestant or Anglo Saxon, but you have to be White, or "looks white" and above all, partake of a particular world view.

Carolyn Kennedy's Husband is Jewish but another kind of Jew. He's on the board of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY and isn't a slum lord like many Hassids are.

The big Jewish philantropists are other wasp wanna be's. They won't be seen with Middle class Jews who live on Ocean Parkway in NY. They are considered too folkloric and an embarrasment. By the way, Ocean Parkway Jews are very afluent and educated.

I bet most Puerto Ricans in the U.S don't know what the heck I'm talking about. However the closest Puerto Ricans that we have to Jew wanna be wasps are Los Ferré de Ponce and Los Carrión del Banco Popular.

When you think about all of this its all CRAP, but that's the way its been since day one.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 20th June 2007, 00:46
Suki Suki is offline
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Miranda said:
When you think about all of this its all CRAP, but that's the way its been since day one.

Yes, class discrimination and the class struggle is the biggest hurdle looming ahead of us. It sure is. I wonder how that is going to go folks? Should we go back to the times of the Crusades in which Christians and Moors fought out their religious differences with bloody invasions and wars? Or to the times of the feudal landowners? To the time of the old Roman Empire or the Byzantine Empire? To the time of the Pharaohs? We can't take a time warp trip. Instead, we need to learn from all of our human mistakes and march forward.

And Miranda, you really finally got my point about it being CRAP. Because that is what it is Luis Francisco. It is crap. Class discrimination is crap. As a system based way of social organization in which the majority are not being educated, fed, housed and given a future that will give them an opportunity to live to each person's potential---the system is crap. And yes, it is that. It needs to change. Just because it has been that way for millenia does that justify it remaining stagnant and unchanging because humans are too slow and too careless to take action? No it is not. Change is possible. It sure is not easy. Human nature tends to only respond to change when it is absolutely imperative. It reminds me of people who ask me the answer to weight loss or to getting out of debt. Or to a happy marriage. Or some such nonsense that any person with some common sense can figure out, but refuse to do....because they live in denial and don't want to change. Change means action and plans and organization and conscious efforts at changing behavioral patterns that are based on lies and falsehoods and myths---all of which are part of the reason---the crap keeps on perpetuating itself.

People prefer to live the lie, than to do the hard work the truth requires. And it is true, "there are no shortcuts to any place worth going to in life." And that is the TRUTH and nothing but the truth. You want to lose weight? Exercise more and eat less. Want to get out of debt? Live under your means, don't try to keep up with the Joneses and change your spending habits. Don't buy into all the nonsense they peddle in capitalism and consumption land. The banks don't give one damn about you as a person. You are a number to them and always will be. Stop thinking a bank is going to be your buddy folks. They are predators and always will be.

Want a happy marriage? Happiness is an illusion, but instead of happiness look out for the three strikes. If he/ she is addicted to something, alcohol, drugs and or gambling etc. The possibilities of you 'changing' them is nil. They are the ones who need to change themselves. You can't do it for them and most probably if you tolerate their crap, you are part of the reason they still do it anyway. Second strike. If they have to hit you or become violent, they got issues you can't cope with. Again, they got to do the work to deal with it. Not you. Third strike a person who is stuck in immaturity and want things their way and for you to work for them to live off of you in perpetuity. You aint their mama or their daddy folks. You are supposed to be their adult partner. If you have someone who doesn't want to work and wants to live off of you and never give of themselves.....you don't need them either. If they don't have any of the above qualities you have a shot at making it work. But, I won't hold my breath. Too many people have too many pressures and unrealistic expectations about life and love that is more about not being able to sacrifice for another no matter what.

Oh, people are expecting a secret. Or some such nonsense. It is all pragmatism. Practicality and pragmatism. People thinking hard and applying some common sense solutions to a lot of human created problems. Sorry, to bust your bubble folks. The world is not in good shape because human beings are living in denial of what needs to be done to get things better. That is the SECRET folks. People won't change until the pain of remaining in the painful situation is worse than the pain they have to go through to change to something better.

When people (like Puerto Ricans) decide it is the moment to get a move on and change....they will. Or they won't. And either way----something will happen. Because if they don't change someone or some other nation will....change.

Why can't people use their common sense? Or is that completely out of the realm of possibility? It makes sense to not impose or have colonies. It makes sense to respect the principles of self determination for people. It makes sense to do a lot of necessary things---but people don't do it. Why? Why do you think they don't do it?

Suki


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Last edited by Suki; 20th June 2007 at 01:31.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 20th June 2007, 05:46
Stanley Stanley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suki View Post
Why do you think they don't do it?






As one famous philosopher said: They are in the cave.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 20th June 2007, 07:11
Yujike Yujike is offline
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Todo es relativo. Mis estudiantes puertorriquenos dicen que yo soy otro "blanco" porque vivo en una casa grande cerca de un lago, tengo buenos carros y tomo vacaciones regularmente fuera del pais, mis hijas se graduaron de universidad, me rehuso a comprar cosas robadas, nunca he recibido ayuda del estado y no visito a Wal-Mart. Ellos dicen que No estudian porque eso es de blancos, lo de sacar buenas notas y figurar en el Honor Society o hacer obras de caridad esos es de los blanquitos. Los negros usan las mismas excusas. Aunque les digo que vengo de familia humilde y luche por todo lo que poseo ellos usan esta "lucha de clases" como una excusa para convertirse en lo que dijo Suki: loudmouth welfare leeches. Esto es cronico con los boricuas y los negros, los demas latinoamericanos ( y los negros que vienen de afuera del pais) no actuan de la misma forma, ellos ven esta tierra como una oportunidad de superarse y mejorar su condicion. Para mi esto es otro sintoma del maldito estatus colonial que vive la isla de PR, un criadero de vagos y gente sin ambiciones ni deseos de superacion. esperando que le pongan la cuchara en la boca. Y estos estudiantes pasan de grado a grado sin los conocimientos basicos debido a su edad ( the good old social promotion), como decimos "the "touchy feely" and the "self-esteem bozos" enable them over and over until they actually believe that they have to do nothing to gain something. Que Dios nos coja confesaos!!!
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 20th June 2007, 08:41
L_F_Miranda L_F_Miranda is offline
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Talking Class and education

Trying to fight Class and do away with it is useless, and maybe not be in the best interest of human progress.

Why is it useless?

Because as soon as you think you've destroyed it, examples, The Soviet Union, China, Cuba, etc. up pops another class of folks doing the same crap as the one's that were destroyed.

Destroying the present Class system is not the end of history, as previous Revolutionary societes have proven. Although Suki might not believe this, think again girl.

We don't notice a new revolutionary class changing immediately because it takes a generation or two to degenerate. However it does, and then we start conspiricies to topple it all over again.

Nonetheless Upper Class has its pluses. No, not the "Come Mierda" aspect of it like "Reinados", exclusive clubs, Garden parties, racial and ethnic discrimination and snotty manners, although these are all part of the upper Class.

I'm talking about what this class produces. It produces the thinkers and the ones who eventually change the system, or do we think change comes from the likes of Yujike's students? Don't hold your breath!

For example, Today I heard that Vilma Espín, Raul Castro's wife passed away. She was one example of upper class in action.

This was a woman who was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. "Reinados" and "Come Mierdería Cubana" were part of her every day life. She was born in Santiago de Cuba to a wealthy family related to the Bacardi's. She wasn't ugly, in fact very pretty. Not being an "Ugly Betty" type, she could have married very well and lived comfortably driving around in her pink Cadillac convertible and living it up at EL TROPICANA. LOL

She was educated in private schools and then went to MIT. As soon as she returned to Cuba she joined the rebel army in the mountains. Soon after, she married Raul Castro and became the spokes person for woman's rights in a macho prone society undergoing radical change.

Like Vilma, Fidel, Mao, Lenin, Marx, and all the other thinkers in History have come from the class of people we are ripping apart here.

As a contrast Celia Cruz, which looked down on Puerto Ricans, and Olga Guillot, both from the lower classes of Cuban society, those we now call Cafrería, made it as singers, struggling tooth and nail to make it in the racist etertainment world of pre-Castro Cuba.

Much like the Hip Hoppers and Regaetoneros of today, Celia and Olga became very conservative, thinking of fame, Bling and fancy cars, "Y que se joda el resto." They joined the most reaccionary forces in Cuba to keep those, like themselves, from rising above.

What can we learn from this ?

La Cafrería is not as innocent or feels as exploited as we might think it is. Why? Because La Cafrería doesn't have too much class consciousness to begin with, or only sees class as a superficial concept. Most, like Marx said, will ally themselves with counter revolution in an instant. Why? Because revolution will certainly not provide them with Bling or the rabid consummerism they dream of.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 20th June 2007, 12:12
Yujike Yujike is offline
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Wow, Miranda, sin ofensa, but your post looked like Another Rican had reared its ugly head over PR.com , again. A very ME pre-programmed response with no sin ni ton, to a very REAL situation I brought up which might help some people see that this is happening right now with our children and this is not an isolated incident, and you contribute a pre digested post about a "thing" about class and class struggles" This is the thing that really turns communications off, ignoring the human behind the contribution. It seemed like you were your own audience, reading from a script. Hey, it was nice knowing you, now maybe PR.como will see the wasted resources used by maybe... 5 people, go to Maybe 4, to keep these forums going.
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