A BLIP, A one liner and an insult.

[L_F_Miranda]

Suki:

Like I've said in previous messages, the internet is NOT the place you have long drawn out discussions of theoretical ideas and their validity. A personal meeting of friends over wine and "sorullitos" would better deal with deep subjects. But since this is not the case.....sigh...........I continue.

I believe people have always come up with theories, basically unproven, to fix things around them, its human nature. Most of these theories undoubtly make sense to the person reading them. Sense will also depend on each person's inner conflicts, they don't affect all of us in the same way. Is it that some of us are less sensitive than others? That's stretching it, and to believe this is kind of snobbish, a.k.a "come mierdería."

I think the trick is to know when to set ideas aside, move on to something else and not get carried away with theories from another time in human history. But of course that's from my point of view of Reality. Also, you must understand that in my profession we deal with the individual and not with society at large, that is unless one is a social psychologist, but that's a whole different subject.

A parallel to Marxist ideas.

Some folks today swear that Freud's theories are totally correct. There are countless internet sites, directed by overly bright people, still trying to sell theories that were devised in Vienna between 1890 and 1910.

Today Freudians are alive and well, living in 1907. They totally dismiss findings in neurological science, findings that point to genetic and biological determinants to personality. Much like the Marxist boards, Freudians are very keen and very intellectual however the world has moved on. Because of their intrasigence, they are dwindling as the century moves on.

I do agree that Marx and Freud laid down the foundations for new ways of looking at society, but conditions today are not totally the same as when they wrote.

In NY CIty one is branded a heretic if one is not Freudian, but being a heretic has always been my imprint, and I'm very happy with it. MMMMMMMMMMM genetic makeup? LOL

Despite that the Freudians have free rein in NYC, they also know that to change would be an end to their livelihood. I guess one has to go with the flow if it means their rice and beans, don't we?

Yes I'm sure that Jakko and his cult followers are very bright, in fact they may have very interesting answers to many problems, theoretically. The problem is that they might still be in the world of Marx and Freud, the 19th century, and like they say in Puerto Rico, "ha llovido mucho desde entonces."

[Sonambulo]

Suki-

I made a simple point; your response talked of Rome, Keanu Reaves, and a bunch of other things and I had difficulty understanding what you were really trying to say. You made points which I agreed with but that really had no bearing regarding my post about why people immigrate here and the failure of man in his political systems.

We are all intelligent people who understand the ill use of power by governments over history. I was talking about something more immediate. It involves the kinds of things that I run, and I suspect you, run into when we meet people from other countries and the reasons they come here. The reason; to find a more stable and materially advantageous life for themselves and their families. The motives invariably have more to do with their basic needs than anything else; that's it. It is not about ancient Rome or some other abstract, unprovable, and debatable notion.

My other point was to say that all systems capitalism, socialism, marxism, and others, have all failed to completely overcome most of the obstacles where the systems exist because of the individual failures of mankind. I supposed this implies that NO SYSTEM can ever be trusted to produce global success or satisfaction in a society.

Thank you for your response none the less.

[Suki]

Miranda and Sonambulo,
It looks like both of you want me to be succinct. And so I will.

For Miranda first and then for you Sonambulo.

What were my main points Miranda?

I really don't understand how Marx in the 19th century has to do with all of socialist thought being obsolete? Capitalism is the only system that is valid and as such it doesn't need to be challenged or changed is that what you are saying Miranda? Capitalism IS MORE ANCIENT as a concept than the modern versions of Socialism or Communism. In fact communal living is both more modern and more ancient in many ways than capitalism and will always be so. What you don't like the concept of mixed economies Miranda? I don't get your position on that statement of 'ha llovido desde entonces'? The only societies who are not in third world status such as Europe, Japan, USA, and some other nations of the Pacific Rim are MIXED economies without exception. The PIP is mixed economy platform. I still don't get why you have an issue with that. Clarify please if you are for a mixed economy or not.

Tribal living is socialistic and has always been that way because when one lives tribally communally reached decisions and property is just more efficient. Class systems become increasingly more discriminatory and capitalism based with bigger and more complex societies. Why? Because the tasks one must do and the distribution of labor in order to produce in mass quantities favors a class that is administrative and they tend to over time and with more priveleges become abusive. Lol. That is what capitalism in the modern sense does. But, the challenge now is that the private property concept is so distorted that now we have companies like Monsanto and others claiming they have a right to patent the DNA and genetic codes of plants, animals and the rainwater that falls from the sky and the very air we breathe. Which means that if we want to breathe, or we want to plant, or we want to collect water in many parts of the world. WE CAN'T, because it is the exclusive and private property of some corporation, who wants to be the owner of something that belongs to the ENTIRE PLANET EARTH, and which was never meant to be privatized. But people are so used to not questioning the privatization schemes they holler at anything that is socialistic and really is LOGICALLY socialistic. It is very crazy Miranda. So, I don't think me being a socialist in today's climate is passe. People need to be reminded that before the crazy concepts of trying to charge poor third world people a third of their measly salaries for water that belongs to them anyway by virtue of their bodies being composed of 70% water and it being vital to survival of the species, the capitalists need opposition. It is the only thing that keeps the abusive types in check. OPPOSITION. Resistance. And challenges. And when the people speak and say "NO WAY" they win. Check out the Cochabamba water conflicts in Bolivia. The people said "no way" the water should be for all of us and shared and we can't afford to pay and we still deserve to live. That is the kind of socialism I respect and will always respect.

If we did not exist and everyone agreed with their crazy and inhumane schemes we would be in much bigger problems than the ones we currently have today. Which are a lot. So, I have a place in society Miranda. In this MODERN present society. I sure do. I am not passe and old and obsolete and useless and not going with the flow. BTW, I have never been a Freudian. Lol. Psychology and Socialism have some interesting concepts to discuss. I never discussed Freud and how he fits in with socialist thought or not before. I really have not. Psychology is another field of thought. But it would be a pleasure to discuss such a possibility with you.

Sonambulo you are next. I hope you are patient with me.

[Suki]

Sonambulo said:

The reason; to find a more stable and materially advantageous life for themselves and their families. The motives invariably have more to do with their basic needs than anything else; that's it. It is not about ancient Rome or some other abstract, unprovable, and debatable notion.

My other point was to say that all systems capitalism, socialism, marxism, and others, have all failed to completely overcome most of the obstacles where the systems exist because of the individual failures of mankind. I supposed this implies that NO SYSTEM can ever be trusted to produce global success or satisfaction in a society.

Yes, I understand what you are saying Sonambulo. My points which obviously you don't understand clearly and I hope to clarify with you are these.

1)Why do people have to leave their home nations in the first place Sonambulo? People should not have to leave their home nations because they can't survive or find work in them. Not when most economies nowadays have proven that you don't need huge natural resources to be prosperous. You just need an educated population with skills. And again education does that well. And education that is for the masses and of high quality, I emphasize high quality, is socialist if done without taking into account if a child is rich or poor from rich or poor parents. He or she is just a little open vessel ready for some learning in the right atmosphere. Again if one wants to make your nation really and truly competitive and efficient and well managed---education is key. And education that is universal and good---will always be something done with group welfare at its heart. Not individual profit only. And thus, again, my thought processes are very MODERN and relevant for today's conditions. Or do you want kids in Latin America languishing in illiteracy and poverty and running accross the border and risking a bunch of pyschological and social trauma by being far from their homes, their culture, their language and being open to being stuck in unskilled jobs forever because their home nation failed to get their basic needs met? What works? INTERNATIONAL infrastructure that is solid works. So, that people don't have to be refugees and outsiders in some society that wants to exploit them, but they have to choose between the lesser of two evils. Being exploited and never being able to make it out of poverty and illiteracy in their home nations, or being exploited in the USA, or in the other nations of the first world, but at least having their kids learn to read in a ghetto school in the USA. The logical choice is to stop playing musical chairs, and let each nation go for the socialism all the way, and teach all the people in every nation, and give all the populations of all the nations some decent infrastructure, and stop playing hardball with people's lives.

2) Rome? What does that have to do with it? Historically Rome was an Empire that was rich and prosperous and was the Mecca and leader of the Ancient world. Much like the USA postulates itself to be. And Rome's Dominance lasted more than two thousand years....something the USA is not looking like they can replicate in terms of time at least. The USA is a world power. It is a world power based on a lot of why Rome was a World Power as well. Military superiority and investment, material wealth based on conquest and war, and an emphasis on law and order and rules and regulations and checks and balances. What is the difference? Rome over time and over overweening ambitions stretched herself too thin, and eventually collapsed from internal rot and immorality and not following their own ancient codes.....and the barbarian races which they had messed with a lot to get resources out of---wound up taking them over and overwhelming them and the close of the Roman Empire happened. Do you see how I was trying to draw a parallel with the behavior of the powerful ones in DC?

No human system is or shall be perfect. But human progress exists and is possible. And to me progress is not about consumption, waste, credit card debt and ads on tv to buy more crap that is unnecessary anyway and we are all sick of anyway. Progress is about giving human beings a life of freedom, meaningful work, security, and providing them with a sense of belonging, kinship and responsibilities that are fulfilling. And letting them know through how we treat the most vulnerable members of society, the children and the old people, that they are the reason why we love who we are as homo sapiens (neither the very young or the very old are productive in the capitalist sense but they are the essence of our history both future and past of any human society and need to be respected and protected at ALL TIMES). And I don't think capitalism makes us better humans. I think what makes us better humans is how we shape, and mold, our society, through our collective free will and through our innate choices on a group or societal level---to either put this species, the homo sapien species, and its needs, that are reasonable and good, as the top priority as a whole (and not profit above all else and above any other consideration)---or perish in selfishness, allowing only a small number of the less than respectful of group needs of society and their lack of dedication to the many and sole dedication to themselves to have sway in the big decisions of import. That is the reason why monarchy was rejected by the Founding Fathers in 1776, they lived the years of Europe's tyrannies with the Kings and Queens and the nobilities bullcrap decisions that the ordinary folks had to suck it up and deal with. And they did not want such a flawed reality happening with a new land. Those lack of conscience types rob us of that goal. That is my point. I hope you understand it. If you think the lack of conscience types no longer exist in today's modern world. Then you are not a mature thinker Sonambulo. And I do believe you are a mature thinker after all. Gracias por leerme.

Suki.

[Sonambulo]

1. Sometimes people flee their countries because they are cowards and dont want to fight for what is right, then they show up here in the US and start bad mouthing the US, which in spite of all that is wrong here, is still a great country. I have been going down to South Florida regularly for close to 20 years and I see people from all over the world living a life far better than where they come from. [Of course, South Florida, is not the only place where you see this].

2. I guess I am just not such a believer of written history and have my doubts about the truth of much of written history as you evidently are. I am also not as optimistic about my fellow man as you appear to be. However, I also believe that the individual must make his or her own way and get out of life as much as you can, without expecting anyone to hand you things on a plate.

3. I understand why many resent the policies that the US government develop and try to execute, however, I am not so sure that it is any better anywhere else. I think that the success of social policies in this country have been greatly overly influenced by corporate and individual interests, and there have been many failures, and even fraud. On balance, however, it is hard to point to social policies in other countries and unequivocally say that they are more effective and more far reaching than those here.

Heres a little sauce for your life sista.

YouTube - Homenaje a Papo Lucca

[L_F_Miranda]

SuKi:

Once again, discussions of this type are better left for another environment. Why? There are a lot of misunderstandings, and above all most people interpret what they want and dismiss the rest. MMMMMMMMMMM, could it be that it lends for more drama when responding? LOL

During a regular one to one conversation, people can clear up what is said immediately. On this medium the responses that are not short and concise will be passed over, and this I guarantee. Yujike will be the first to say it, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ LOL

In this Paris Hilton age we live in no one reads too much, unless its ads looking for a date, a hot bochinche or some XXX story. LOL

I will make this response short.

Suki, this is the first time you've mentioned mixed economies, a heresy within your mentor's ( Eddier) mode of thinking. When you've gone into rants on the dictatorship of the proletariat, circa 1848, what more can anybody think? You surely don't sound like someone from the XXI century. Like I said, Marx laid the foundations but since then socialism has evolved. No one is dead serious about the dicatorship of the proletariat these days, however, like I said, it won't be bad if they cracked the whip in Haiti, Central Africa or some Middle East countries. Communism has proven great getting countries like these into shape.

Now on to the original subject of this thread.

I just figured out why some sites are just blips, one liners and insults, its because they limit the length of the responses. On the PIP site, endless rants and sound off's have to be less than 1000 words. On Society and Culture PR you can write more but most folks will ignore you. On Cafe Boricua you basically don't have a limit but the responses are blips and one liners, however the insults are highly controlled by some Christian Fundamentalist whacko. LOL

[Suki]

Sonambulo,
I don't confuse or mix the ordinary people and citizens of a nation, and its government. Those are two separate realities. One can have deep disagreements and dislike of a government and still think the people who are working, and doing all they can to be productive and respectful members of society are good and decent. I separate the two.

I will criticize the USA government. I think they have screwed over Puerto Rico in the worst way. And Puerto Rico is not the only one they have stunted and mistreated in a most hipocritical and shameful way. So many IGNORANT people feel and identify themselves with their governments. Love me and love my government. I think unless you are a total and absolute mentally retrograde individual, one should have the common sense of distinguishing. And for your information Sonambulo, the cowards are the ones who stay silent or no longer fight to do anything at all to make something change in a difficult situation.

Do you think it is easy and or cowardly to come to some new place where you don't speak the language, and have to start over from scratch and have to learn new rules of all kinds, and deal with enormous upheaval and change just so you can earn your daily bread? I don't think that kind of challenge is for cowards at all. What is cowardly are those who already live a life of silver platter and ease and resent any newcomer who doesn't seem to fall into line with their priveleges. Lol. And those kind of folks who can't wash a dish or make their own beds and if they had to do it someday would cry themselves to sleep at night like some toddler because they define themselves by their priveleges and not by their strengths and their ability to be strong in the face of a lot of adversity. Those are the 'weak'. And the USA is filled with a bunch of weak, uninformed, ignorant and spoiled people who have lost sight of how much struggle most people in the world face.

I am never going to back this rotten system Sonambulo. No matter what. Lol.

As for Miranda, I have discussed a lot over the years. Including mixed economies. I think the problem is that you have your own biases about what or who I am and what and who I represent, and it has little to do with 'my' reality. Which is okay, because this is the internet and you are never meant to really understand or know others unless you spend a WHOLE lot of time on them. Time that most don't have in this medium.

So, for the next two weeks. I shall only write one liners and blips. And see if that is a success? HAHAHA. I think it will be a change of pace, and people might appreciate reading more than one liners from me someday.

As for Eddier1, he is not my mentor. He would never say he was. He was an internet acquaintance and I really enjoy people who have content. If others would have had more seriousness and content I would say I would be a great pupil. I enjoy people with some history and with some information and with some depth. No matter who they are. Waneko I enjoy all the time. I wonder if he knows it? But he posts rarely. I wish he were more of a regular on here. I also enjoyed Guaili so very much. But he had to leave to do many other things. He had a lot of content and was young. I enjoy a lot of people. Eddie happened to be very consistent as a poster on here.

I don't like blippers and one liners. It bores me in general. But, it seems that is what everyone wants. To not have deep conversations. Just give me a blip and a one liner.

Good night.

Suki