Increíble

[RPR]

Suki, hope you had fun on three kings day. There were many activities all over Orlando this weekend in celebration of the day. I used to live in the midwest and this type of celebration was alomst non-existant.Eventually, I plan to move to San Juan. The company I work for has an office there. I just have to be patient but this is one of my goals.

Some might say that you ramble with your posts. I never have seen it this way. My opinion is that you have a vast knowledge and some might be intimidated by it. When I first found this forum about 5 yrs ago, I was impressed with how long the posts were and the insightfulness they had.So keep them coming.I sometimes take time to respond because I like to digest all that you commuunicate on here. Not just you but others as well. Lots of food for thought that is hardly found any where else online when it comes to our people.Also,for some reason,Puertrico.com forums are block at work for me. Although,I have access to any other forum online. Its a conspiracy lol!

Moving on, Carl Sagan is a favorite of mine. I will have to check out the book. I was aware that we have many Puerto Rican born scientists working for Nasa. I just didn't realize that it went that far back. The stars fascinate me and I have imagined that we could be the first country in Latin America to reach outer space.I definitely think we are capable of doing so. We have plenty of bright people to take on the task.

Stanley, I liked your last post. I was surprised to see you express so such strong, fiery sentiments. You sounded like an independentista!I do share the same opinion as you that we take our own destiny in our hands. Sure, our choices might be limited as Miranda says. However, if 90% of Puerto Ricans were clamoring for independence eventually we would have it. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it lol.

[L_F_Miranda]

Stanley, Welcome back. Its been a year.

Stan said:

"There is nothing special about americans. We keep talking about “us and them” and somehow ascribe some superiority to the Anglo. "

If you re-call, it was President Bush who referred to us as "Our neighbors and friends in the Caribbean". He could have said our "fellow Americans in the Caribbean," but Gringo "numero uno" made the distinction between them and Us. "Mas claro no canta un gallo", ¿no crees?

I recently came across an article that I would have placed on the forum but I decided not to, or maybe I will later on.

Its about how independence movements appear to be PASSÉ, something out of the last century. The writer said that as long as individual rights were respected, and you follow the line, which most of us do, why independence?

The only problem I see wth this thesis is that despite the author putting down independence movements as irrelevant in the 21 century, he doesn't touch on what a Metropolis can do if the natives prefer full annexation with all the privileges, $$$$$$$$ and rights to make them fully equal.

Yes I also agree that Americans did help us move ahead materially, even though it took them half a century; and only when WE took the reins of power in 1952. However wasn't this what a Liberal Democracy was supposed to do with its subjects, its white man's burden?

The French and British introduced education and Western culture to its colonies also. In fact The Guadalupans and Martinicans have refused to separate from France after 300 years. Algerians fought tooth and nail to be kept a French possession. Why?

After all it was the French who brought in running water and got them off the letrines. They were grateful. The Brits introduced toilet paper to the Indians, the Americans to us. Before that we used corn husks, a.k.a. Tusas. It must have been awful to be walking around with an irritated behind all day. Progress indeed, don't you think?

Now if the Dominicans or the Haitians would have colonized us imagine where we would be? We were just lucky it was a Western enlightened industrial power and not a nation like Sudan or Zimbawei. LOL

Nonetheless, as Puerto Ricans came to the U.S their kids were colonized by the least progressive Americans, the Blacks, go figure. LOL

Stanley finally said:

"Trying to blame who we are on someone else does not work for me."

Stan you can't blame Gringos but you surely can say they've been responsible for keeping us in a limbo. For giving us false hopes and selling us the idea they are the most democratic nation on earth, but on the other hand, they refuse to do anything about their 4 million citizens who live on the dole, disenfranchised and hoping to be annexed.

A contradiction? You better believe it!

[Stanley]

Miranda, et al:

I hope all of you had a great 2007 and I wish the best for 2008.

Regarding the “us and them”:



I will admit that I grew up with a mixed culture. My dad listened to classical music all day long and was a Francophile and member of the French alliance. He loved the French language. He spent a great deal of time in France during WWII and had many French girl-friends. LOL. BTW, I am always amazed at how WWII veterans are not mentally ill. Compare that to Vietnam and Iraq.

The greatest tune of my childhood was “10 little Indian boys”. Later on I loved a 1950s song called “Dreamin” and in the 60s I was a rockero. The only Spanish music I heard was the old fashion 1940s stuff and boleros. When salsa became the rage I never got into it.

I don’t have this “us versus them” mentality, however, I have come to the conclusion that PR needs to be a republic. The window of opportunity for statehood is gone and perhaps was never there. In any event it does not matter because status was not such a big deal for me. Maybe I am like Jesses Jackson and saw myself as a citizen of the world, LOL.

PR would be better off as a republic because it could improve the quality of our citizens. The economic achievement and success of any country will always be in direct proportion to the work ethic of its citizens and a government that is favorable to the people and free of corruption. We are in the toilet because we have too much cafres in the island---and that also includes many so-called high-class folks.

I find that I have a lot in common with many middle class Americans and in the end we are all the same. Nevertheless, I find myself socializing with foreigners from all over the world and I find them more interesting than Americans. I even make funny jokes about Americans with many friends from Europe and they all agree with me.

Suki is an idealist and a very smart studied woman that still lives in the glorious past. She just turned 42 and missed the decade of the 1960s. I am sure she would have loved those times when socialism was alive and well. Nevertheless she is clear about what she wants. OTOH, most of us are ambivalent.

[L_F_Miranda]

Yes Stanley, the big differences are among class, education and certain sophistication, which should not be confused with "COME MIERDERÍA", however one defines that. I too can feel more in tune with an Anglo, Jew, Black, European or Asian of my own class/educational background than a Puerto Rican who is just hovering, trying to make it to the middle class.

Like I've said before, class is not about money, its acquired generationally. Its takes time and generations to move from one class to another. Some folks move fast, others linger and stay stuck, much like what has happened to many Puerto Ricans in the states. I think the problem has been that they've identified with the wrong people, with the least successful folks, thus pushing our progress back decades. Other groups haven't been so foolish.

Then there are Puerto Ricans who have internalized that money makes them middle class, it doesn't! Take Jaylo, a lot of money , no class, oops I mean low class. LOL

This may sound "Clasista", but what can I say. The Folkoric crap, (Flamboyan paintings, pasteles, pernil, los pleneros de la 22,etc. etc), is also an indication of class stability and how one feels about one self. The more folkoric, the more unsure about our roots. I understand that this folklorism is important for many, but I think I was way beyond that even before I left Puerto Rico.

Sadly, when I go back to my home town I find folks there still in 1960. Many into the Disney World, cruise ship circuit, where much of the talk is about which ships have the best buffets. Its a limited world of conversations about the best fast food restaurants, Sales at K-Mart, action/kung fo movies, Salsa, Regaeton and sharing tips on what to say to the Section 8 investigator when reviewing your case. LOL

[Suki]

First I would like to say to RPR---I had a fine Three King's Day. I would also like to tell you that many times I have felt I write in vain on this forum. That I think no one is really reading much. But, I do it anyway...I do it because I love to write and it is something that reinforces what I always have valued. It is a great way to define yourself in this life. Through writing. Sharing thoughts. It is good for people in general. As long as they realize that they live in society and must consider others when writing in public fora. I enjoy reading the opinions of many different people.

As for the independentistas, it has been a difficult road. I can't really start writing about it now. A journalist from Univision and some local Spanish language papers who knew my mother tried to sit down with me to discuss it in depth...they wanted to do something very detailed and long and deep on it. My mother worked with the Hispanic Journalists in her area and they knew her. When they tried to get a long and detailed interview about the Independentistas, Vieques, Ruben Berrios, the pollution and Cancer and all of it----RPR I could not speak much. I was overwhelmed with this wave of PAIN. All I kept seeing was her beautiful face struggling in some Intensive Care Unit for every breath, my uncle Wilfredo holding her head in his hands as she died saying "Estamos contigo Negrita hasta el final. Estamos contigo Negra--" My Uncle Wilfredo has always been calm, cool and collected, focused and unemotional. Not that day. There were over 25 in there. From Colombia, Guatemala, Peru, Mexico, Spain, El Salvador, Puerto Rico----everywhere it looked like a Pan Latin American meeting there.....All of us where screaming in pain.....because of an old Puerto Rican woman's passing. She was as the biography said, "brilliant and extraordinary". If it wasn't for a Guatemalan lady friend of hers who helped me RPR, I could never have made it out of the ICU.

Mama was married. Her husband is Mexican. I don't ever want to see someone suffer like he suffered for the rest of my life. That whole situation was the worst. People ask me dispassionately about 'independencia' and how the time has passed. How our time as a people that should be sovereign have passed. No human struggle that is for an essential need for some kind of freedom is ever passed. Never it is. Even if Puerto Rico as a nation dies in colonialism and never gains its independence would I say the struggle for freedom was in vain. For that is what all of us in life as human beings do anyway. Struggle for existance, struggle for life. I hope with time I can speak of the entire history of it with less pain. I think with time I can. But not today.

I do know one thing for sure. You live your life RPR with integrity and with selfless service and deep caring and you would be surprised how much a difference your life as an individual is noticed by your fellow human beings. Give of yourself without self interest, and you gain the whole world in the process. Hold back from giving to others and lose the whole world as you do it. That is what I learned is very real and very true in this life we lead. Miranda is very bright. But being class conscious is losing a lot in this world. Got to not be naive or unnecessarily trusting, but it is important to not be snobbish or standoffish. With greater maturity I am realizing that one has to pick one's friends carefully. They should be people who understand you and who share a lot in common with you. Yet, they should also be people who have something you can learn from. Choose others who enhance your life in many ways.

The last posts from Miranda, Stanley and RPR have been very thoughtful. I am glad.

Suki