The state of Hawaii

[Ache]

LOL, I said I am for independence and your expose on why the Metropolis will not grant Statehood is clear and concise. The Boricua, my family and all those living on the island of limbo will continue to chase their tails until as you state they find their "cojones" to demand a real solution. The ones that continue to do not have the cojones are the Populares since they continue to throw every wrench they can find into the gears of finding a solution. It is time that Congress grant Puerto Rico its right to real POWER to work on their problems! I am sure it would work out just fine since they would have no choice, but to make it work.

[PunkMaister]

Originally Posted by clip314

What folks in Puerto Rico and the US quite don't understand is that voting for statehood is not like picking a Miss Universe contestant.

It's not whether the majority picks this or that status choice, its whether it works within the best interests of the United States, and also it has to fit into its conception of REAL POLITIKS.

Best interests? , REAL POLITIKS?

Hawaii was declared an " Incorporated Territory", territories in line for future statehood, in 1895. On the other hand Puerto Rico was never INCORPORATED, thus creating a BIG PROBLEM. In fact Supreme Court cases ( the insular cases) have declared over and over again that the American citizenship of Puerto Rico was never intended for statehood, see Balzac Vs. Puerto Rico, 1923. As they put it, Puerto Rico belongs to the U.S. but we are not a part of the U.S. Go figure. Yes this can change, however there are more things that make Americans fear us more as a state than letting us go.

What most Puerto Ricans, on the island and in the U.S. refuse to acknowledge is that the statehood movement on the island has grown by leaps and bounds, not because Puerto Ricans want to become americans, but because they, the poor which is the majority, have been promised to be taken care of for all eternity by handouts, welfare, disability payments etc. etc. They have been thought to fear independence and will fight tooth and nail against it.

Why?

Roughly, give or take, up or down, 65% of the island depends on welfare and most of these voters are 500% pro-statehood. Another large group depends on SSI disability payments, or have lucrative pensions from the armed forces. Most of the political big wigs owe their jobs to administering the colony. They are corrupt and live very well, so why go against the tide? The Obama free medi-care will also swell pro-statehood numbers more, maybe to 95% of the population. Imagine, even the Puerto Rico medical assocation is 100% for the Obama care package. In contrast their colegues in the United States don't want it. MMMMMMM is it our welfare mentality?

Think, who in their right mind on this island is willing to cut off the goose that lays the golden eggs? Certainly not the majority of Puerto Ricans.

On the other hand this growing demand by welfare recipents will eventually cause a problem in Congress. In fact Congress has never been on record saying that statehood is an option. We only IMAGINE THAT IT IS!

Why is statehood a problem for Congress?

Because as a state Puerto Rico, different from Hawaii and Alaska, is overpopulated with folks, who in the majority can't speak English, or don't care a hoot to speak it.

Then why are they statehooders?

The statehood movement has PROMISED them that Puerto Rico can be a "Spanish State", and on top of that recieve "PARITY" with the other states, meaning that welfare payments will increase ten fold. That is called "LOS BENEFICIOS DE LA ESTADIDAD! "

What about paying U.S taxes? DUHHHHHHHHH What's that?

Because Puerto Rico will be the poorest state in the union "all taxes paid to Uncle Sam on April 15 will be RETURNED FULLY via INCOME TAX CREDITS. In other words, statehood is a lotto dream come true for Puerto Ricans and a rip off for hard working americans who have to pay taxes even though they 're unemployed.

¿Y a quien le amarga un dulce? translation, "who thinks a candy is bitter?

WAIT, It just gets better.

Because of population, Puerto Rico will have an congressional delegation LARGER THAN 27 English speaking states, some of which have been in the union since 1776!

Republicans in congress already fear that most Puerto Ricans will be Democrats, after all its the party that distributes welfare. On top of that Republicans, and many others fear that a huge Hispanic delegation will begin fighting to make the U.S a bilingual nation. That they will form coalitions with other Hispanics, Mexicans, Dominicans etc. and eventually bring in the Blacks, thus creating a huge congressional block of poverty and angry folks demanding more welfare and affirmative action.

I could almost see Sarah Palin's face and hear the FOX news crowd when they become aware of this. LOL

BOTTOM LINE, Puerto Rico has not become a state simply because its not in the BEST INTERESTS of the United States. Congress will only face our status problem when ever Puerto Ricans put their "COJONES" in their place and corner Congress to take a stand and spell out the CONDITIONS they are willing to grant. Until then its a useless merry go round of "Dime y Diretes" , tit for tats, among ourselves.

However we must also take into account that a dwindling white population, who percieves itself cornered, fears that a Puerto Rican state will be the begining of transforming the nation into a Puerto Rican day parade 24/7. LOL

I know these are harsh words and they are also a very cruel reality.

I welcome a Statehood petition NOW to get this over with as soon as posible.

And I bet you folks here, it will not be statehood, even though the majority in Puerto Rico want it.

There will be NEGOTIATIONS. Why? Americans are practical and aren't fools.

Hi there clip314 you really do not have to tell me that the so called "statehood" that the New Progressive party has been selling locally is nothing but a huge sand castle! The biggest that has ever been built probably in the history of mankind. I am a realist I know that it will be a very uphill battle to reach Statehood as in being an actual state and not Elephant marching in and crushing everyone beneath as the NPP promised statehood would be. I know that every relationship needs to have people from both sides gaining something and not just one side gaining everything while one side gains nothing! Not even marriage works like that...

[clip314]

Originally Posted by PunkMaister

Hi there clip314 you really do not have to tell me that the so called "statehood" that the New Progressive party has been selling locally is nothing but a huge sand castle! The biggest that has ever been built probably in the history of mankind. I am a realist I know that it will be a very uphill battle to reach Statehood as in being an actual state and not Elephant marching in and crushing everyone beneath as the NPP promised statehood would be. I know that every relationship needs to have people from both sides gaining something and not just one side gaining everything while one side gains nothing! Not even marriage works like that...

MMMMMMMMM, so tell us Punk Maister or any other statehooder on this board, How is it in the best interests of the United States to admit Puerto Rico as a state?

Remember, NOT OUR INTERESTS, but their interests.

[PunkMaister]

I think it would not be in their interest to totally alienate 4 million Puerto Ricans living in the states that are full fledged American citizens by birth, that's just for starters.
This article explains it in far more detail:

* he Puerto Rican people have earned it through their steadfast support of our country, our flag, and by sending their sons and daughters to fight in US wars, our wars, ever since the Spanish American War in 1898.

* We cannot continue to operate a colony, forcing U.S. citizens to accept a second-class citizenship, one without full political rights and equal representation, and not guaranteed by the constitution. The United States is a republic, not an empire

* U.S. taxpayers are paying billions per year to prop up an economy that in its present form doesn’t work well. It doesn't provide proportionate economic benefit for Puerto Ricans, nor does it provide to pay their share.

* Commonwealth status was never meant to be permanent , it was meant as a transitional step

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Why should Puerto Ricans want to be a state?

* They should not have to wait any longer to gain constitutionally-guaranteed citizenship with full political rights and responsibilities

* Puerto Ricans would then share as everyone else in full benefits from our government, while paying taxes like everyone else

* In the words of Don Luis Ferre, Ex-Governor of Puerto Rico, and winner of the U.S. Medal of Freedom, "It is an honor to be a citizen of the greatest country in the history of the World."


What would it cost the U.S. taxpayer to bring Puerto Rico into the fold?

Based on studies conducted by noted economists, it is projected that Puerto Rico as a state will actually contribute to, rather than be dependent upon, the U.S. taxpayer.

Here’s why. Under the current system, Puerto Rico costs the U.S. over $9.7 billion yearly. Why? Because that’s what we lose from a combination of federal taxes forgone from large corporations doing business on the island as well as from individuals, together with grants-in-aid and transfer payments to the island. Puerto Rico gets significant amounts of federal grants-in-aid and transfer payments to individuals, such as veterans benefits, and welfare payments, which are not off-set by taxes collected on the island. (Puerto Ricans also draw Social Security, but they pay into it like everyone else.) These payments are in large part "needs tested." In other words, they support people who are elderly, poor or disabled.

Nothing wrong with that, except that no income taxes are being paid in. Part of the reason there are so many poor people in Puerto Rico is that the economic system in place under Commonwealth just doesn’t work well, creating a situation where many people are out of work; many underemployed.


If Puerto Rico were to vote for independence, even though there is no evidence that they will, it would also be costly. It is inconceivable that the U.S. would set Puerto Rico adrift without a large "transition package" and continued foreign aid of a large magnitude. Remember, we are talking here of people who are currently U.S. citizens, who would demand favorable treatment and help. Puerto Rico, as an island with 3.8 million people and no other significant natural resources, is not economically viable as a separate nation without significant external aid and free access to large markets like our own.

With statehood, Puerto Rico can be economically viable and a contributor to our nation’s wealth.

Look at what happened to the last two states admitted to the Union, Hawaii and Alaska. Both economies grew substantially after being admitted to the Union and became net contributors to the U.S. Treasury. Puerto Rico would receive equal treatment in both taxes and benefits, the same as the other states. Benefits to the island under the current system are limited by Congress. Those limitations would be removed. At the same time, payments of federal taxes would be phased in, as provided by the enabling legislation. We estimate Puerto Rico as a state will contribute nearly $2 billion to the U.S. Treasury each year. How is that possible? Through economic growth. With economic growth there are more jobs, fewer unemployed, and less of a public assistance burden.

[PunkMaister]

Damn characters limit!

Why is this statehood issue of Puerto Rico important now? Can’t it wait?

* Puerto Ricans have been waiting over 100 years for equal treatment; from 1898 when the United States wrested control of the island from Spain following the Spanish-American War, until today. That is a long time to wait. No other U.S. Territory has been held in limbo for this length of time

* The world has changed during that century. Colonialism was commonplace in 1898, and was a foundation for large industrial economies. Colonies were used as friendly and dependable sources of raw materials for industry, as markets for finished products and for soldier for armies. The world is different today. Everyone in the world has much higher standards and expectations regarding human and civil rights, and worldwide the United States has championed this enhanced notion of self-determination and equality

* The United States remains the leading nation in the world, economically and militarily. More importantly, it is the preeminent standard bearer for democracy. Our nation is still looked to for moral leadership in the world. Therefore, our colonial relationship with Puerto Rico is not justified by today’s standards and not in our nation’s best interest

* Puerto Rico continues to be dependent on the U.S. taxpayers' assistance


What are the economic arguments for statehood?

The arguments for statehood from the U.S. perspective lead to one single overriding factor-economic growth. Statehood means that the island would shed its ineffective and costly reliance on preferential tax credits and more fully integrate into the national economy. In a study by Hexner, Jenkins, Lad and Lame, "Puerto Rican Statehood: A Precondition to Sound Economic Growth," the case is persuasively made that statehood is necessary for the island's economic growth.

Puerto Rico would no longer be a substantial cash drain on the U.S. economy. With statehood, the Puerto Rico economy will grow, become a source of additional revenue to the national treasury, and be less costly in support for the unemployed, the underemployed, and for disabled individuals who require public assistance.

For Puerto Rico, the standard of living would profoundly improve for the average person. With average income going up, families will be able to pay their fair share of taxes while still improving their net income and standard of living. For those with low incomes, the U.S. citizens of Puerto Rico will have the same access to tax relief and federal support programs as any other citizen of the country, unlike under the present status where significant disparities exist.

[PunkMaister]

Continued because of the damned charaqvcter limitation. This may require over 20 individual posts as a result just for this article!

What about the issue of the English language?

Some have made the argument that Puerto Rico should not be a state because Puerto Ricans do not speak English, and we should not have a non-English speaking state. This is a red herring issue for the following reasons:

* English is already an official language on the island, as is Spanish

* Puerto Ricans are already citizens of the U.S., and have been since the Jones Act of 1917. There was no language requirement with the granting of citizenship then, so it makes no sense to ask this question now. In fact, there has never been a language requirement of territories entering the union in our history

* English is a required subject in public schools through high school

* English is the only language of the Federal Court system and all U.S. government agencies in Puerto Rico and is the common language in banking, commerce, real estate and the tourism industry

* Learning English as well as Spanish just makes good sense. English is the the international language of business, science, and increasingly, diplomacy. Puerto Rico should do all it can to increase English language capability. But, making it a requirement of statehood would ignore the precedents of Enabling Acts of Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Arizona

Politically, would Puerto Rico be controlled by the Democratic Party or the Republican Party?

* Puerto Rico has a strong and vibrant Republican Party. Former governor Luis Ferre served as Chairman of the Republican Party of Puerto Rico for much of his life. Former Lt. Governor Norma Burgos and many New Progressive Party members of the Puerto Rico Legislature and mayors on the island are Republican.

* Does this mean the Republicans will dominate? No, because Puerto Rico also has a strong and vibrant Democratic Party. Just ask former Governor Pedro Rossello, or Resident Commissioner Carlos Romero Barcelo. They are Democrats.

* Nobody can predict how a state will turn out politically. We must remember that when Hawaii and Alaska came into the Union, it was widely predicted that Hawaii was assured for the Republicans and Alaska would only send Democrats to the Senate and House of Representatives. How did it turn out? Just the opposite.

Ask Democratic Senators Inouye and Akaka of Hawaii; or Republican Senators Murkowski and Stevens of Alaska, or their Republican Congressman, Don Young. In fact, it has been Don Young who lent his name to the "Young Bill" in 1998 which passed the House of Representatives authorizing a self-determination process for Puerto Rico.

* The fact is, Puerto Rico, like most states in the union, will be a contested state politically, with good candidates from both parties being sent to Washington to represent the island. Puerto Rico is politically sophisticated with a history of strong party affiliation and contested elections. And nearly everyone who is eligible to vote in Puerto Rico exercises that privilege.

[PunkMaister]

Continued as a result of darn character limitation on this board...

How Does A Territory Become A State?

Various routes have been taken in the long history of the United States for colonies and territories to become a state. Normally, the area must muster local political support and petition the U.S. Congress for admittance to the Union. The approval process is relatively straightforward. A bill, called an "enabling act," must gain a majority vote in both houses of the U.S. Congress, the House of Representatives and the Senate. When approved, it is signed by the President. Normally there will be provisions in the bill spelling out any transitional measures that must be taken to become a state by either the petitioning entity or the U.S. government. Admission of a state does not change the Constitution. It requires no super majority; nor does it require ratification by the individual states.


Puerto Rico's Legislature Building

What’s Happening In Congress Now on the Statehood For Puerto Rico issue?

The 105th (1997-'98) Congress was the most active on this issue of any Congress in History.

A bill co-sponsored by a host of Congressmen from both Republican and Democratic Parties, (HR 856), after long debate was passed by a vote of 209 to 208. This legislation, The Puerto Rico Political Status Act, commonly referred to as the "Young Bill" after its chief sponsor, Congressman Don Young of Alaska, established definitions for the three basic alternatives, statehood, independence or separate sovereignty, and commonwealth, and a multi-year process by which a final disposition of the issue could be made. Essentially, the process called for a referendum on the issue to be held in Puerto Rico. Once the decision was made for statehood or independence, a process would be set up to transition into that status, to be agreed to by subsequent votes of the U.S. Congress and Puerto Rican referenda.
A similar bill, S-472, was initiated in the Senate, sponsored by Senator Murkowski, Chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and a host of co-sponsors. The bill was not reported from committee after the Chairman concluded that due to the lack of time remaining on the legislative calendar, there would not be time for Senate action. What the Senate did do, however, was pass a resolution (S. Res. 279) by unanimous consent that endorsed a Puerto Rico plebiscite (scheduled for December 1998), which called for preferences on status options.

In December 1998, a non-binding plebiscite on status was held in Puerto Rico, but due to the alternatives presented the voters, little in the way of definite conclusions can be drawn. In addition to the normal alternatives, of statehood, commonwealth, and independence, voters were given the alternatives of “None of The Above” and “Free Association.” Because of the confusion on the ballot with definitions of status provided, the “None of The Above” alternative won the majority (50.2%) votes cast. Statehood won the plurality of votes cast for the actual alternatives decisively (46.5%), followed by Independence (2.5%); Free Association (0.2%; and Commonwealth (0.1%).

No legislation favoring self determination for Puerto Rico has been pushed in the U.S. Congress during the period 1999-2003. This was due primarily to the preoccupation of Congress with other issues, the national election campaign and Puerto Rican elections that run conterminous, and subsequent world and national events. It was also due in part to the preoccupation in Puerto Rico and the Congress with the issue related to Navy use of Vieques Island for bombing practice and the accidental death of a Puerto Rican security guard. It is possible that legislation could be introduced in 2004 or 2005.

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I heard that not all Puerto Ricans want statehood. Why not?

It is true that not all Puerto Ricans favor statehood, but the trend for the last two decades has been towards majority support of joining the union. There are some very legitimate reasons why people may favor another alternative, commonwealth (the current status), independence, or free association (like Micronesia). The vast majority of people in Puerto Rico have a very positive feeling towards the United States, even though some may not want to become a state. Although we do not agree with these reasons, we understand them.

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Nationalism

Some people would rather Puerto Rico become an independent country. Puerto Ricans are a proud people and a minority in Puerto Rico want sovereignty as a separate country. We believe that this is an honorable alternative, but in vote after vote, independence has been rejected by the overwhelming majority of Puerto Ricans. National identity is understandable, and is something that the people of every territory that ever became a state of the United States had to grapple with. Strong national and state identity is evident in every state of the union. Indeed, the original 13 colonies had to also deal with this issue over whether or not and how to give up some of their individual sovereignty in order to form a Union.

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Culture

Some people are concerned that their Spanish heritage and culture will be overwhelmed and therefore lost forever by a dominant "anglo" culture. This is also an understandable feeling. We believe that Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans will never lose their identity, while becoming an equal part of our whole country. Why not? Because Puerto Rican identity is strong and continues to be so. Puerto Rico has been exposed to U.S. mainland cultures for a long time, 100 years---and Puerto Rican culture and heritage has thrived and grown. Puerto Rico has adopted and adapted aspects of U.S. culture, just as we have incorporated much of Puerto Rican culture when exposed to it. At their core, these cultures are western and we believe they are compatible and complement each other. They are not a threat to one another. In sum, Puerto Ricans, while citizens, in much the same way as Texans and others view themselves, are still Puerto Ricans despite the more than 100 years of the deep and strong relationship with the mainland United States.

Commonwealth backers insist that statehood would bring more pressure against Puerto Rican culture through full integration into the Union. But the fact is, Puerto Ricans and mainland citizens have moved freely between the island and the mainland with no resulting cultural dilution or weakening of Puerto Rican's strong identity, even with the large migrations of the 1930's, the 1950's and since then. Furthermore, the fact is that Puerto Ricans will be in a stronger position to control their own destiny as a state than it ever can be as a territory, achieved through the protections of the U.S. Constitution and full representation in Congress that would be available to it as a state. Currently, Puerto Rico is legally a territory, and governed by the will of the Congress. Even U.S. citizenship for Puerto Ricans is granted by act of Congress, and due to the territorial status of Puerto Rico, is not guaranteed by the Constitution.