On 5/3/200 5am demonstrators in Vieques are move out. A sad day for Democratic syste

[a_carleone]

Señores:

Aquí hay independentistas que no saben escribir en español y yo como estadista le voy a dar el ejemplo de como cuidar nuestro idioma.

Es lamentable que predicando paz para Vieques hayan destruido el auto de nuestro padre fudador el ex-gobernador, Luis A. Ferré. Los sacerdotes que estaban al frente del Tribunal Federal se hicieron de la vista larga contra ese vil atropeyo encontra de una figura destinguida de la sociedad puertorriqueña y que tiene mas de 90 años de edad.

Al no tener la valentía de atacar directamente a la Marina se desquitan con actos cobardes ante la mirada de algunos políticos con sotana que solo usan la palabra de Dios cuando les conviene. Como pueden notar los que predican paz son los primeros que siembran el odio. Cuidado con esos falsos apóstoles.

[This message has been edited by a.carleone (edited 06 May 2000).]

[Eddier1]

Originally posted by Lenny Vazquez:
Eddier1,

>>Indeed you really have it down pact, so you think. The FBI and US Marshalls where flown in, the marines I will believe you on that one. Second I really do not believe that the marines will shoot at anyone unless they are armed and know this that has well as the Police the rule of engagement is very simple, you must be shot at first in order to shoot. I am in the armed forces and very much a Puerto Rican, one simple question that I have for you, that is if you can answer it. Everyone is talking this and that concerning the unfortunate death of the civilian about a year ago, can you tell me how many times did you stand watch on that same gate of Vieques and the citizens of peace of the same island would drive by and shoot sporadicaly at civilians and military personnel alike? I am agaisnt any harm to my fellow P.Ricans but I must also see the truth without prejudice. I can only wish that true peace is accomplished without any blood shed.

<<

Lenny, one picture is worth a thousand words. And there is video tape of the U.S. Marshalls and the F.B.I. agents coming across the waves from the warships in high speed landing crafts.
Next, you may believe what you want about the Marines, and as a Swabby you are closer to them than I have been in many, many years. But to say that Marines, who are trained to kill on demand from their superiors, or volitionally in war situations, would not shoot down a person trying to breach their defensive positions is really naive of you. Remember the Marines are not "cops"; they are a military machine for organized violence against the enemies of the U.S.A..
Next you say that the people of Vieques in the past have done "drive bys" shooting at the guards and/or soldiers at the target range. CAN YOU DOCUMENT WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING? You refer to these "shooters" as pacifists, "citizens of peace of the same island". Now you got to offer some proof of what you are saying Lenny. If you can't then you are being jingoistic, and/or a war monger trying to justify military action against our long-suffering brothers and sisters of the Isla Nena. If true, you and Caraleone should get along very closely with one another. For he too is a JINGOIST supporting the United States in every thing it does.
You say you are for a true peace without any bloodshed, or should you say without anymore bloodshed ?; because David Sanes was a victim, and also many others too, just as much as he was, in that they die of cancer, suffering horribly because of what the U.S. Navy has done and is doing to la Isle Nena and its People.

Sr. EddieR

[Poncepr68]

Eddier1,

Okay let me tell you this nice and slow since at normal speed you may not get the complete drift. What you saw on TV is LCAC okay my so call peace warrior, I did say that the US Marshalls and the FBI arrived to Puerto Rico in Planes they may have arrived to Vieques on a LCAC but the did not make the entire trip on the ships, now that I have cleared that up for you to the next one. Would it make a difference if the navy killed a person or just another Puerto Rican like you? see that is my point I am not defending the Navy in any way, what I am saying is that it could have been one of the cowards that would shoot from a moving vehicle towards the gate. Would you and many people like you be screaming to the same tone? I really doubt that but you are so blinded by what you hear and read from where ever you are that you do not see anything else. Concerning Mr. Carleone I would really not try to make such a comment I do agree with him in some things but just like you, El Boricua, Mike and many other I can not and will not agree on all the things.
I have said many of times I have a neutral voice on the Navy leaving or staying in Vieques or Puerto Rico, what I have said is that not everything that is said about the navy now days is true. What I would like is for some of the Politicians not all but some of the politicians that are involved to just say the truth. I have no warm regards for Mr. Ruben Berrios and even if I agree with his thoughts in certain things I just will not agree with him in leading people to a civil war. That is my point and to be honest with you until I started talking with you and El Boricua, RaulMax, Mike and even A. Carleone is when I really started looking in to this issue. I hope you now understand my views, at least a little.

[Eddier1]

[quote]Originally posted by Lenny Vazquez: >>What you saw on TV is LCAC okay my so call peace warrior, I did say that the US Marshalls and the FBI arrived to Puerto Rico in Planes they may have arrived to Vieques on a LCAC but the did not make the entire trip on the ships, now that I have cleared that up for you to the next one. Would it make a difference if the navy killed a person or just another Puerto Rican like you? see that is my point I am not defending the Navy in any way, what I am saying is that it could have been one of the cowards that would shoot from a moving vehicle towards the gate. Would you and many people like you be screaming to the same tone?.......................................
I have said many of times I have a neutral voice on the Navy leaving or staying in Vieques or Puerto Rico, what I have said is that not everything that is said about the navy now days is true. What I would like is for some of the Politicians not all but some of the politicians that are involved to just say the truth. I have no warm regards for Mr. Ruben Berrios and even if I agree with his thoughts in certain things I just will not agree with him in leading people to a civil war. That is my point and to be honest with you until I started talking with you and El Boricua, RaulMax, Mike and even A. Carleone is when I really started looking in to this issue. I hope you now understand my views, at least a little.<<

You are breaking your head Lenny in trying to come up with a notion that will disassociate the U.S Marshalls and the F.B.I. from the combined forces of the Navy and its warships. You are slow to realize that the point is that we have evidence on the video tapes that the Federal Marshalls and the F.B.I. used the warships and its LCAC to be the vanguard in landing on Vieques. Moreover, you cleared up nothing, but instead are behaving like you were the travel agent of the U.S.Marshalls and the F.B.I. and know what their itinerary was. AND YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS. What we all know is that they were on those warships and used the LCAC to attack the Pacifist encampments, and evict the Pacifists. The facts or data of the video tapes prove that it was a combined effort by the Navy and the Federalists.
Now, you go on to use violent rhetoric in your question about what if the Navy were to shoot and kill me. Of course, as a Freedom Fighter it would make a difference to me if it were done unjustly, and also I would feel the same way about anyother person, Boricua or not that would be killed unjustly. BTW thanks for giving me this chance to have my say on this, because if it is historically determined that such would happen to me I have stated my point of view since after it happened I COULDN'T CARE LESS! And I don't scream; I only use the caps for emphasis which is a proper and fitting thing to do.You still haven't documented yourself on the shooters Lenny, and it is CONSCIENCELESS of you to have said that the shooters where the PACIFISTS OF VIEQUES.
One more thing, you say you are neutral and yet you are a member of the Navy who although while in service does not have the normal civil rights civilians have, yet are voicing your opinions politically about the Vieques issue. That is NOT acceptable to me, although I tolerate your point of view. And let me say this, if your commanding officer ordered you to begin shelling the people of Vieques with live ammo again, THE LIKES OF YOU WOULD DO IT! So how the hell can you say you are neutral about this issue?

Sr.EddieR

[JHerna]

Que yo sepa en la historia de la fuerzas armadas de los EU nunca se ha utilizado esta ni sus armas en sus ciudadanos. Si se que atravez del tiempo miles de personas han perdido sus vidas tratando de darnos libertad y mejor calidad de vida. Por ejemplo, cuantos "test pilots" han perdido sus vidas, cuantos medicos e inclusive maestros.
Recuerdo cuando el "Space Shuttle" exploto y todos sus tripulantes murieron inclusive la maestra que estaba abordo. En Vietnam 58,000 soldados perdieron sus vidas tratando de mantener el comunismo fera de ese pais. Esto sin contar los "MIA". Como pueden ver en la historia de este pais siempre se ha sacrificado alguna que otra vida para mantener la paz y el orden mundial.
De mi parte, yo perdi mi tio en la guerra de Vietnam, yo tambien servi en las fuerzas armadas y mi hijo ahora esta en las fuerzas armadas. De la misma manera que yo me siento como se sentiran todos los padres y familiares de los soldados que estan en las fuerzas armadas si estos no tienen el entrenamiento necesario para proteger sus vidas en caso de una eventualidad.
En Oklahoma han muerto 36 personas a causa de las practicas de tiro militares. Ellos entienden que por una persona que pierde la vida miles son salvadas. No es que le este quitando valor a la vida humana, sino que accidentes pasan. Cuantos militares han perdido sus vidas, inclusive P.Riquenos en practicas al rededor del mundo. Y sobre esto nadie protesta. Porque? Porque perdio la vida sirviendo a su pais. No solamente se sirve al pais en las fuerzas armadas, sino que todo ciudano tiene el deber y la responsabilidad de servir a su pais sin importar que trabajo haga.

[Poncepr68]

One more thing, you say you are neutral and yet you are a member of the Navy who although while in service does not have the normal civil rights civilians have, yet are voicing your opinions politically about the Vieques issue. That is NOT acceptable to me, although I tolerate your point of view.

Concerning this part of your endless nonse,
I can voice my opinion on the Vieques issue all I want as I have stated before what happened to the late David Sanes was unfortunate but still in accident. I have also stated that whether the people of Vieques and Puerto Rico wants the navy out of the island that is something that should be done with the election process or through the courts systems. I have also made it very clear that until I have read some of your topics and other like you and other not so much like you I have not really read into this issue. What if any is a political view. Another thing you have nothing to tolerate but read if you do not like what you read change to another topic. What you and many others need to do if you feel so strong about this, you should be in Vieques, in front of the White House, etc... What is your worries? That I have a different view than you, what is it that bothers you so much. I have always followed any lawful order given to me. Concerning me shelling or not that I would have to be in that situation to know what will I do, I will deal with it when I have to cross that bridge.
Oh before I forget I am a citizen and yes I may be restricted on certain things that I may comment on it does not mean that I can not talk about it. I have said that yes we have freedom of speech but we are responsible for what we say and that applies to all of us.

[Poncepr68]

I need no proof to show concerning any shooters, are you not so involved in to the issue and justice for all. Go to PRPD they should have some documentation on that. Oh I am supposed to be some sort of an archive right, give me a break. Now days proof is the least you would want to see as long as it fits the needs of the people whom break the law for this supposed peace cause.