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Jews and Jesus

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10th September 1999, 21:23
Eda Eda is offline
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I dont understand why Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as being savior. Then Born again Christians claim to be the new Jews. Is there something missing here?
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Old 10th September 1999, 22:42
guarionex05 guarionex05 is offline
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Eda:I have been reading alot about this.But i think that was GOD's plan.JOHN 3:16..that all who believe in HIM....NOT JUST THE JEWS.
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Old 11th September 1999, 09:35
Eda Eda is offline
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guarionex05, Thanks for your reply....Iam not knocking anyones belief, or Religion. But what I was trying to get across was that the Jewish people do not recognize Jesus he was just another Prophet he was not the Messiah to them, thier still waiting for the Messiah. But then Born Again Christians turn around and claim to be Jews (New Jews)I dont understand why they claim this, when the Original Jews dont even claim him. Did I confuss the whole situation?
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Old 11th September 1999, 09:57
El_Jibaro El_Jibaro is offline
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Eda:

Jews do not believe in Jesus because they think he is an impostor. 2000 years ago the Jews were expecting a messiah that would wipe out the Romans, end all forms of evil and be the king of the righteous [which by the way were only Jews] for ever. This messiah had to be a descendant of king David, and no notion of the messiah being God himself. However, when Jesus showed up he told them that they were all sinners [including the very religious, when he said that a murderer did not have to commit murder, he/she only had to hate his/her neighbor, Matthew 5:21-48], that his Kingdom was not of this world, that he wasn't about to conquer the Romans, and that he was God himself [the way the Jews understood the title Son of God was that Jesus was calling himself God, that he was giving himself the qualities of God; the same way when a Jew called someone Son of Thunder it meant that the man was thunderous (angry, fiery, wrathful)]. So Jesus (Jesh˙a in their language) offended the Jews big time with his own words, and he was never certified by the religious leadership as being a descendent of king David (as a matter of fact the gossip around in those days was that he was a bastard, probably a son of a Roman soldier [only Mary and some other family members knew he was of supernatural origin]).

To the Jews the full evidence that Jesus is not the Messiah is that he died on a cross. First, to them the messiah could not die, and second, it was a curse to die hanging from a wooden structure, in this case: a Roman cross. Also, Jews don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, to them is a hoax perpetrated by the disciples. So today, 11 Sept 1999, Jews are convinced that that Jesus was not the Messiah. To make matters worse, Jews really have a problem with worshipping a Man (Jesus), so they call anyone who worships Him an idolater, one who worships idols. When a Jew comes to the point of accepting Jesus as Messiah, if his/her family is very religious, they celebrate a funeral and consider that person to have died. The modern nation of Israel itself does not recognize Jews who believe in Jesus as true Jews, they consider them to be apostate (abandoned the Faith), as idolaters.

There, I hope that helps.

However, Jews of today do ignore their own Bible allot (the Old Testament), which has many prophecies that were fulfilled only by Jesus. The perfect example of their ignorance is Isaiah chapter 53, which is clearly the description of the death of the Messiah, His rejection by Humanity, His dying in the place of sinners, and His resurrection from the dead (by the way resurrection is to rise from the dead in physical form, not as a spirit or a ghost like some say). When a Jew of today reads that passage in their Bible, he/she tries to explain it away saying that it is figurative speech for the nation of Israel, which has suffered allot of persecution. However, the nation of Israel is not a completely righteous (there are many sinners among them) and the Man of Isaiah 53 is absolutely righteous, dying in the place of sinners.

Anyway, I don't have more time now. However, about the Christians being the Jews of God, I must tell you that this is not true. Read the Romans chapter 11 (the letter of Paul to the Romans), which says that we who are not racially Jews (Gentiles), but believe in Jesus, were grafted (injertados) like the branch of a wild olive into the trunk of a cultivated olive tree. As we would say in Spanish: "fuimos admitidos en esta fiesta de pura chamba".

Hope this helps.

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Manuel Alonso
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Old 11th September 1999, 13:17
Eda Eda is offline
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Gracias Manuel for your reply:
You know there are so many Religious groups out there that claim this and that. Its confusing in itself. I do know that there are Christians claiming to be the New Jews and some are even going towards that culture, not celebrating Christmas, recognizing the Jewish food, Jewish Holidays the whole nine yards. That's where it gets confusing. Which way are they really going? But in essence they truly believe that Jesus was the Messiah/Savior. I was checking out some of the Quotes you put out. Thanks!
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Old 11th September 1999, 21:48
El_Jibaro El_Jibaro is offline
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Eda:

You mention that some groups are trying to become "New Jews". Read the letter of Paul to the Galatians when you have the chance. In that letter Paul deals with a Church that was adopting Jewish customs. If you are a natural Jew then don't stop being one culturally (1 Corinthians 7:18). But if your not a natural Jew maybe the issue is that Jesus is not enough, and then there is a problem. David Koresh was one of those who wanted to imitate the Jews to the point of trying to make a new Jewish nation [or at least being the father of a nation] and look how he ended up. There is a strange pattern here for those trying to be artificial Jews: they tend to form new cults, and sometimes end up trying to replace Jesus altogether.

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Manuel Alonso
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Old 11th September 1999, 23:07
guarionex05 guarionex05 is offline
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I once read a book called false prophets.now you said the Jews don't believe in whorshipping a man.but there was a man they thuogth was the massias i think he's name was something like sabatevi.they wrote books, poems about him and look down on the Christians and laught at them,but he was arrested by a sultan and taken to turkey were he had to choose between dying or converting to Islam which did.And remember they told Cesar,we have no King but Cesar.

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PEACE BROTHERS AND SISTERS
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