Truth about the development of the Trinity part I

[conciencia]

ALCON,

Para el que quiere saber de donde y porque se ha establecido la Trinidad. Endulge yourself, you have the power to kill ignorance with knowledge.Should You Believe in the Trinity?

How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?



AT THIS point you might ask: 'If the Trinity is not a Biblical teaching, how did it become a doctrine of Christendom?' Many think that it was formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E.

That is not totally correct, however. The Council of Nicaea did assert that Christ was of the same substance as God, which laid the groundwork for later Trinitarian theology. But it did not establish the Trinity, for at that council there was no mention of the holy spirit as the third person of a triune Godhead.

Constantine's Role at Nicaea




FOR many years, there had been much opposition on Biblical grounds to the developing idea that Jesus was God. To try to solve the dispute, Roman emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea. About 300, a fraction of the total, actually attended.

Constantine was not a Christian. Supposedly, he converted later in life, but he was not baptized until he lay dying. Regarding him, Henry Chadwick says in The Early Church: "Constantine, like his father, worshipped the Unconquered Sun; . . . his conversion should not be interpreted as an inward experience of grace . . . It was a military matter. His comprehension of Christian doctrine was never very clear, but he was sure that victory in battle lay in the gift of the God of the Christians."

What role did this unbaptized emperor play at the Council of Nicaea? The Encyclopædia Britannica relates: "Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, 'of one substance with the Father' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination."

'Fourth century Trinitarianism was a deviation from early Christian teaching.' —The Encyclopedia Americana

Hence, Constantine's role was crucial. After two months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those who said that Jesus was God. But why? Certainly not because of any Biblical conviction. "Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology," says A Short History of Christian Doctrine. What he did understand was that religious division was a threat to his empire, and he wanted to solidify his domain.

None of the bishops at Nicaea promoted a Trinity, however. They decided only the nature of Jesus but not the role of the holy spirit. If a Trinity had been a clear Bible truth, should they not have proposed it at that time? hmmmmmmmmmm interesting..

[TheMinister]

Perhaps I misunderstood your conclusion friend, are you claiming that there is no Scriptural support for the Trinity?

[conciencia]

Minister,

The Bible has always identify, if I may a team, Command structure/hierarchical system which is perhaps clearly defined in the Old Testament. I will clearly state now that the word "trinity" or the doctrine of Trinity is never mentioned or even eluded by any prophet in the Bible. I always challenge anybody to find me such word or Gods explicit mandate for such Doctrine (Manmade teaching) and I will believe in such paganism.

However, We all agree that Jesus always gave the glory to his father, we all know that Jesus and the Holy Spirt always acted upon Jehovahs command. We all know that God himself has said no living thing can see because his greatness will surely kill him, we all know that many human saw Jesus Christ, we all know that the holy Spirit has touched many. So we must not confuse mistranslation with errors.

[Leticia_g]

Conciencia,
Concerning your phrase:
"However, We all agree that Jesus always gave the glory to his father, we all know that Jesus and the Holy Spirt always acted upon Jehovahs command. We all know that God himself has said no living thing can see because his greatness will surely kill him, we all know that many human saw Jesus Christ, we all know that the holy Spirit has touched many. So we must not confuse mistranslation with errors."
Isn't it so that we saw Jesus, only because he was allowed to take a human form, the same with the Holy Spirit, we felt the holy Spirit for the same reason because we are doubting people and we as a group usually won't accept things that we can't see. If I am right, then it means that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are part of God and therefore one and the same.

[conciencia]

Leticia,

Wrote:

"Isn't it so that we saw Jesus, only because he was allowed to take a human form, the same with the Holy Spirit, we felt the holy Spirit for the same reason because we are doubting people and we as a group usually won't accept things that we can't see. If I am right, then it means that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are part of God and therefore one and the same"

Leticia, if you observe what you just wrote you will notice a chain of command that you yourself recognized.

"Isn't it so that we saw Jesus, only because he was allowed to take a human form"

My question to you is; who allowed him? The word "allow" itself depicts an authority greater of that then Jesus. So how can a General have a lesser authority then a Sargeant?

What you said about the Holy Spirit it is understandable for a common human being, since we are as you (faithless)describe, but does miracles such as those in the past occur now? You may also see that God greatness is beyond that of our weak body can withstand, thus it would be a form of compasion and love not even show his true identity, since it will actually kill us. Jesus is the "Lamb" The Holy Spirit is his force his extention.
__________________


[Edited by conciencia on 19th June 2001 at 03:04]

[Leticia_g]

Conciencia,
I agree with your point, only because even though I was raised believing in the Holy Trinity as part of my religious training, I was always the one that got in trouble in catholic school for questioning the nuns. One of the things that always concerned me was the belief in the Trinity, only because I couldn't understand how Jesus could be God and The holy Spirit. I always felt that God was superior to everyone including Jesus. God is supreme therefore if he was Jesus, why would he be praying to himself? However, if I follow my religious teachings, then I would say that God, allowed himself to be Jesus only for our sake, but then again why would Jesus knowing that he is God ask His father to forgive the people that have condemn him to death? Concerning the Holy Spirit, I learned that it was the force of God, that through the Holy Spirit, we would have the strength or courage to voice our religious belief thus is the reason why we receive the sacrement of confirmation at 14. Supposedly by that age, we should have a better understanding of our religion. With this in mind, I would clearly say that the Holy Spirit is the force of God.

Thanks for your interpretations.

[conciencia]

Subiendo