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Statehood Deserves 2 Thumbs Down!

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  • Statehood Deserves 2 Thumbs Down!

    1. “puertorriqueñidad:”

    Puerto Rico's culture would be lost. Our language would be destroyed. Our way of thinking and our mannerisms would be lost too. This has been proven time and time again throughout the centuries of imperialism. Most countries, especially in Africa, which lost many parts of their culture (Especially their tribal languages, because French, English, Dutch, Portuguese, or Spanish was more beneficial politically and economically.) and people, and paid with it even more with struggles for independence and civil wars.

    Statehood has everything to do with language and culture. How is that possible, when you have an island with a culture much different than any other state of the Union, (I don't want to hear about Texas or Hawaii, because those states have mostly Anglo-Protestant populations and are very much Americanized as well having pride in their state, which is different in Puerto Rico.) with a language that is not used in the USA like it is on the island? There are people proud to be from New York City and state, but I never seen any of them have a New Yorker’s parade in any other part of the country, nor even in their state. I’ve never seen any of them take out the flag of New York and wave it with pride. Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, do all of the above.

    I don't want to read that the USA doesn't have an official language and New México has a constitution that allows Spanish as it's second language, because that is different in Puerto Rico. Why? Well, because Spanish is known to 99.9% of the PR population, and English is only known to 20%, and it isn't used on television, books, school, gov't activities...etc like Spanish is. For the USA, it's the exact opposite. Which USA state does the majority of its population knows Spanish and uses it daily? Which USA state does the majority of it's population uses Spanish as the language of instruction of all school classes, gov't activities, and most of television...etc? In the United States you may speak whatever language you'd like. Although, that language you might speak won't be on all the street signs, or all official documents. It won't be in the books in masses in the library or spoken as the language of instruction at schools. Point blank, the language used most officially in the USA is English. You don't need a piece of paper to tell you that...if you did, most likely it would be in English!

    No state, in a majority of it's population, has a culture that is significantly different from other states. Remember, in the majority, not some indigenous Native American tribes that make up only a few percent in their "purity" of the state's population. Puerto Rico on the other hand, has in a majority, a very Latin American culture, which would change if another Americanization campaign (The first one failed, due to how it was applied.) took place, which is inevitable if the statehood process was applied, because the USA doesn't want a state that is totally different from every other state. That would create too much controversy and many would question why the USA allowed a state with 80% of its population without basic English skills, have more pride in their culture and flag than any Ohioan would, are poorer than any other state, doesn’t pay much in taxes, and (If statehood was voted in.) has almost 50% of the population apposing their status. Hawaii and Alaska both voted more than 90% to become a state.

    Also, the Puerto Rican population and employment by the government of PR are immensely larger than what Hawaii had when it became a state. Also, Hawaii did not have any tax-incentives and didn't receive as much gov't hand outs as PR does now. The majority of its people worked in tourism, agriculture, or in the military, as opposed to the now diverse economy of PR. Also, the standard of living of Hawaii was more prosperous then and is now than what Puerto Rico has.

    The reality, the only real Spanish-Speakers are the Hispanics coming into the USA, and the politicians know that after the fourth generation+, most of them won't even know Spanish. In Puerto Rico it's much different. So those who think that language and culture has nothing to do with statehood for our island are wrong, because it does.


    2 The pro-statehood party (PNP) stinks:

    How many more corruption scandals will they see until the estadistas realize that their party is destroying our island? Almost everyday we hear about another PNP politician, especially from Rosselló’s administration, being sent to jail for stealing from our people. They try to enforce Americanization on us by copying the USA educational and commercial systems, such as English as the language of instruction for the University of Puerto Rico, and privatization. They also support the monopolization of small and medium Puerto Rican businesses to USA businesses, in order to bind our economies closer together. That has proven to create larger unemployment, underemployment, and less financial efficiency. They even tried to completely change our system of measurement, from Metric to English, even though most of the world uses the Metric system. They even want to allow USA military bases in PR, even though it has been proven that they actually take away from the PR economy because of the land they take up. They want to continue the combing of Vieques, even after the health effects, the death of a security guard, the destruction of its economy, and against the wishes of 68% of the population that voted for the immediate cessation of the practices.


    3. USA Congress doesn’t want it:

    If the USA Congress wanted to make PR a state, it would of years and years ago. The last vote to allow PR to have a binding referendum was denied by the USA Congress in 1998. Why? In the fear that if PR's voted for the statehood, the USA, would have to legally comply with that. So PR had a non-binding referendum, where PR's voted 50% none-of-the-above. The USA Congress, and people, simply does not want statehood for PR, if it had, it would allow PR a binding referendum, or just give it statehood unanimously. It has the power to. Under the USA Constitution, it has complete power over all USA territories. That includes Puerto Rico, of course. The Republicans don’t want it, because a Puerto Rican state would have more representatives than 25 other states. That would mean 2 Senators and 7 or 8 Representatives, all probably would be Democrats. Of course, with those numbers, the near 50/50 split of Republicans and Democrats in Congress would be tipped towards Democratic rule, and that is a conservative’s nightmare.


    4. Colonial PR is a moneymaking machine:

    The USA is making money off of Puerto Rico, more then it is giving it. It gives Puerto Rico $16 billion a year. While its multi-national corporations, who pay taxes and political "specialties" to the USA, makes probably more then $50 billion off of PR, not including the annual $19 billion consumer business profits in PR. Which makes domestic businesses rot. Also, Puerto Rico is not allowed to trade with other nations, so it must receive its goods straight from the USA. So Puerto Rico is charged many, many times more then what the good are worth or what the USA paid for them from other countries, such as China or Japan. Thus, the USA is making billions and billions off of PR as a colony, allowing the people think it’s helping her. Why would it want to make PR a state where it would loose money instead make money off of it?


    5. No-tax incentives:

    If Puerto Rico became a state, the multi-national corporations of the USA will leave Puerto Rico, because the tax-incentives Puerto Rico receives, as a colony, would not be given anymore. The reason is because other states that could use those tax incentives, such as Mississippi or Alabama, will be denied to receive them because the USA likes to make money. Those 3rd world tax-incentives would be an embarrassment to the USA economic system, and would lower the amount of monies going into the USA treasury, increasing the amount of profit for USA corporations. After Enron, that isn't a good idea, because when they fall, they fall hard. Puerto Rico, without those tax-incentives, unemployment rate (Probably 50%) and GDP would fall dramatically, because hundreds of thousands and 47% of our GDP directly depend on those USA multi-national corporations. Imagine the indirect response....Why can’t Puerto Rico just become independent from foreign corporations? Well, because we are a Colony, it would look bad and "too separatist" to the world of populares and the USA government.


    6. Mass welfare and losses to the USA:

    The mass unemployment rate and the collapse of the PR economy will allow Puerto Rico to receive monies from the USA, mostly welfare, decreasing the USA treasury. In statehood, all welfare restrictions PR has now would be lifted. Also, all the other restrictions for federal funding would be lifted, to help fight crime, improve education and gov’t inefficiency. Billions upon billions would be transferred to Puerto Rico, while Puerto Rico won’t be giving much to the USA. Taxes? Most Puerto Ricans, who are 200% under the Federal poverty rate, (60% of the PR population.) won't have to pay taxes, thus receiving billions and giving out about $48 million. If the USA allowed PR the tax-incentives, and the other states, it would loose direct money as well. A dead end.


    7. The loss of our international recognition:

    We wouldn’t be able to participate in the Olympics, (We win mostly in boxing competitions, our failures are due to political reasons.) or the Caribbean Baseball Championships, which we won in 2000.We wouldn’t be able to participate in the Miss Universe pageant, which we won 3 times, and was hosted 3 times on our island. It would be less likely for us to compete in the competition if we had to compete against 50 other states, instead of being automatically allowed to. Anyway, USA citizenship for PR is only 'important' because many PR's who can't find jobs in PR could find them in the USA. What is USA citizenship to Singapore, Ireland, or Chile except for passport-free passage, if we give our people a high standard of living, why would they want to permanently leave?


    8. War:

    Civil War or revolution from the independentistas is very probable outcomes of PR statehood. Do you want war in Puerto Rico? The insurrection might be small and the USA government might put it down, or it might not, but it will cause damage to our island, people, and world image. We might never recover, all because of statehood.


    Conclusion:

    Statehood is not going to happen, because not enough people want it, because too much is at risk. Everything Puerto Rican is at risk, our culture, language, people, economy, and island. Statehood deserves 2 thumbs down.

  • #2
    and I thought this was a humans right forum-not a political one......

    Comment


    • #3
      billyboy2674....

      PR political status has everything to do with Human rights. The Puerto Rican people's right to self-determination!

      Comment


      • #4
        very good

        well said, only hard headed people won't get it though

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by porsche928
          well said, only hard headed people won't get it though
          Thanks! Sadly, most statehooders are hard-headed, lol.

          Comment


          • #6
            I hope you get your wish and that Puerto Rico will be independent very soon. It will be a $16 BILLION dollar relief to the taxpayers of the United States. It is ironic that so many people from the Dominican Republic are literally dying to enter Puerto Rico to live under the form of government that you so obviously despise.

            In answer point 1: Maybe Spain will take Puerto Rico back and we won't lose our language or our culture!

            Point 2: Are you naive enough to tell me that if the Independentista party was in charge, no corruption would exist? You better take the 5th Amendment on this one!

            Point 3: I can actually agree with you on this point! Puerto Rico would have a very, very powerful voice in Congress and affect the balance of Congress if it became a state.

            Point 4: The argument has little basis in reality or fact. It is rich in exagerations and conjecture, however.

            Point 5: As if independence is going to be able to keep industry here. What are you smoking?

            Point 6: I don't know that you are right or wrong but at least the USA will see that no one starves or goes without education or without medical care. Will independence provide that to the people of Puerto Rico? How?

            Point 7: You're kidding, right?

            Point 8: It is also funny to read how you state that the Independentistas will "rise up" and commit terrorist acts if statehood comes to PR. What do think would happen if PR was given its independence by an Act of Congress because, ultimately, no plurality can be established? That all of the Puertorican people are going to accept independence without armed resistence? I would love to see that scenario get played out! Even if a plurality of Puertoricans voted for independence, what will be left after all the industries shut down because of the expense of doing business here, all those who do not support the independence of Puerto Rico move to the mainland (There actually are a LOT of people here who love the USA) and that $16 Billion gets reduced to 4 or 5 billion a year (or less)? How long before all those unemployed workers would rise up against the independent government of Puerto Rico? We could go back to growing sugar cane.....

            Conclusion: Get real! PR will never be independent nor will its people allow it to become independent of the USA. Don Quixote, you are jousting with windmills!

            Comment


            • #7
              GringoinPR....

              Hi gringo! Someone who chose that name obviously has no respect for his/herself or for the Puerto Rican people.

              Your entire post were full of bias opinions, my post was full of facts in which you could not refute with the same amount of research. Anyone who reads your post and mines will see who did more homework, lol.

              Anyway, let's get right back to it:


              1) No, I don't think Spain should take us back. In 1897, they decided to let us go. That was 105 years ago, so why would they want us back now? You didn't write much against the argument of culture and language. That's shows you either know very little of the culture and language of Puerto Rico, or you just don't care. Sad really. I posted an argument on it, and you couldn't refute it except with sarcasm. You're losing this argument already, lol.

              2) I never said that independentistas are not capable of corruption. Although, you haven't seen much corruption done by the PIP. (I don't support that party.) They have been in power in the Senate and House for decades, and in city and town councils all over the island. You’ve never seen them commit any acts of corruption. Especially not on the scale of the PNP and PPD. Though, we are all human, capable of many things. There's corruption in every country in the world, even the USA. Still, the PNP haven't made a great image of itself when every week you see another scandal on their part.


              3) Yes! That's exactly why we won't become a state. Why would Congress want that to happen? Especially Republicans. At least we agree on something. It's unusual though, you still follow your falty views even if you agree on a key point on why we won't become a state. That goes to prove that many estadistas have their heads in the clouds.

              4) Again. You disagree, but you have nothing to show why. That is why people who read this thread will most likely agree with me than you, because I have something to show why I believe what I believe.

              5) I'm not smoking anything. As for you, I'm not sure. I smell a little hint of cannabis around you. Anyway, again, you have nothing to show why. Those industries will stay in PR if PR has the right tax-initiatives that they seek; the cheaper the labor, the more foreign industries. (It would be easier to create tax-initiatives because we won't have to beg a foreign Congress for years to do so.) That is why they are leaving now, that is why they will leave in statehood. Although, whose to say that we want PR to be completely overrun by foreign corporations, and not help support local businesses to help in self-sufficiency? You might laugh, but look at what's happening now. Those corporations are leaving, and unemployment is rising. Poverty is rising in affect, and so is crime. Look at towns such as Juncos, or Gurabo. They’re ghost towns, with local businesses rotting because of so many foreign businesses. What if those towns were full of local businesses, would unemployment be so high? Would as much wealth be going to the USA instead of staying in PR? This is the very core of independence. Self-sufficiency. That's the very core of statehood. To prepare for statehood, PR must be economically stable enough, but when that is achieved, what would be the point of becoming a state? LOL! It's all about $$$ isn't it?

              6) You don't know if it's right or wrong? Well, look at PR. So many are in poverty because of the current political status which does not allow PR to struggle to it's full economic potential. Will these impoverished people pay many taxes? Statehood is very unlikely for reasons I already mentioned, but if it was granted, PR certainly will go into the union impoverished. As I already stated, estadistas won't allow PR to grow economically before statehood, because what would be the point of it? Why would people support it if their lives were bettered without it?

              Oh, and the USA never let's anyone go without starving, education, or medical care? I think you are thinking of Western Europe, because you're wrong. There is plenty of people without education in the USA. Go to the inner cities of the USA. Studies show that most Americans don't know simple scientific, geographical, and historic facts about their country and the world. The same study also showed that Canadians know more about USA history and geography than Americans do, lol. Also, they're 48 million Americans without health care. So you're comment is full of ignorance.

              7) I'm not kidding. Why would you think that? You think this is all a joke? I think you do, from the way you presented yourself in this thread. You should be ashamed of yourself, lol.

              8) Your comments on this one was already proven wrong. As long as the foreign corporations see favorable labor in PR, they wouldn't leave. In statehood, they won't, because the tax-initiatives PR needs under such a economic system wouldn't be available. (I already explained that too.) Why would the people rise up against independence? Statehood supporters, such as former Gov. Luis A Ferré and Senator Miriam Ramirez de Ferrer always said that if they don't receive statehood, they would accept independence. So, I guess they would just be hypocrites if they started an armed struggle against PR. Well, with all the corruption and rape scandals besieged on their party, I wouldn't be surprised.

              Anyway, I don't want any kind of armed struggle in PR. I rather seek things with peace. Though, I'm only one person who’s not responsible for the acts of others.

              Conclusion: You are another hard-headed person. I hate to insult you on this post, but you presented yourself with such ignorance and ferocity I had to denounce myself to your level. Such as a child psychologist does to a child, in order to understand and communicate with him/her. You stated your comments, but without any statistics or intelligence. You just like sticking to your faulty beliefs, even if they've been proven wrong. You completely contradicted yourself in your post. You agree with me on some points and others you disagree; especially with the USA Congress one. If you agree with that, you will know that we would never be allowed to become a state. Thus, why argue with me on why we will, when you agree that we will not? LOL! You got yourself into a little trap in that one.

              Take care.

              Comment


              • #8
                Loss of culture?

                Hi amigo!

                All the things you mention are happening right now anyway. So statehood would perhaps simply be the finishing touch? Furthermore, if a people want to be governed by another people--there is no way on earth that they will be persuaded not to want to be governed by another people. Look at Viequez, out of 12,000 residents living there, only a few hundred showed up to protest at the beach. Many were not even from Vieques. They were from the isla grande. So how do you think the United States sees this? It sees it as a tacit approval of its policies there. That is why they ignore the protests. They consider the protests simply a minority issue of no real import.

                Human rights indeed!
                The United States citizens celebrate their right to self-determination each year. Ironically, Puerto Ricans celebrate with them. Which means? Which means that the Puerto Ricans are very content with their present situation and do not wish to be bothered with any technicalities.

                So, when a people thinks this way, then the best thing to do is let them be. Otherwise you will wind up butting your head up against a brick wall for no other useful purpose than to perhaps listen attentively as your skull resonates on impact.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Radrook
                  Look at Viequez, out of 12,000 residents living there, only a few hundred showed up to protest at the beach.
                  Actually, it's a little less than 10,000 citizens. Even if many of the protesters were from mainland Puerto Rico, on July 29th, 2001, 68% of Vieques voters voted to end military exercises. The USA gov't and military ignored that. A democratic vote against the bombing by the permenant citizens of the island.


                  Originally posted by Radrook
                  So, when a people thinks this way, then the best thing to do is let them be.
                  Think which way? Those who support commonwealth and statehood need to learn the truth of their cause. If they don't, they will continue to run blind into the street until they are hit by a truck; allowing the rest of their family (The Puerto Rican people.) to suffer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Respectfully yours....

                    Thank you for you reply. I must admit I am no match for your intellect and I commend you for your burning passion over the issue of independence. We can, perhaps, agree to disagree.(?)

                    It is true I cannot take this issue too seriously. I admit I do not really care about the issue and I choose not to vote in the local elections or plebiscites because it is not fair for me, as a half-breed, to decide the future of Boriquen. I will leave that to the 100% Boricuas.

                    To me, the energy that I see being expended by people seeking independence (or the status quo or statehood, for that matter!) for Puerto Rico is being wasted on the issue. Their energy and intellect are sorely needed in other (less political) areas in Puerto Rico.

                    I have chosen to use my energy at the grass roots level, at my local public middle school. I run a computer lab after classes are over. I do not indoctrinate. I do not discuss politics. I simply want to help the children of Puerto Rico to have a better opportunity to learn and achieve. In my mind, that is far more important than the political status of Puerto Rico, current or future. All I want is from any government of Puerto Rico is that they pick up my garbage.

                    So, go ahead and call me ignorant and hardheaded. Sling those stereotypes and prejudices. It's all you have! My efforts, at the very least, are going towards confronting real issues and helping the children realize their dreams...

                    I wish you well in yours....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not the stereotypical independentista you're afraid of....

                      Originally posted by GringoinPR
                      Thank you for you reply. I must admit I am no match for your intellect and I commend you for your burning passion over the issue of independence. We can, perhaps, agree to disagree.(?)
                      You're welcome. I am glad you came to terms with the TRUTH. The whole point you probably came into this forum was to try to insult and refute this thread, wasn't it?

                      Originally posted by GringoinPR
                      ...it is not fair for me, as a half-breed, to decide the future of Boriquen. I will leave that to the 100% Boricuas.
                      I'm half Dominican. That doesn't mean I shouldn't support the Puerto Rican people.

                      Originally posted by GringoinPR
                      To me, the energy that I see being expended by people seeking independence (or the status quo or statehood, for that matter!) for Puerto Rico is being wasted on the issue. Their energy and intellect are sorely needed in other (less political) areas in Puerto Rico.
                      I agree. Much could be done without changing the political status. Although, status is the very pinicle of Puerto Rico society. It's connected to everything. It's just that those in power in PR feel that once the final status is set, we could go ahead and address the real problems of PR during the interim period of change. That will most likey happen. Still, as you wrote, we could and should address some of those problems now.

                      Originally posted by GringoinPR
                      I simply want to help the children of Puerto Rico to have a better opportunity to learn and achieve. In my mind, that is far more important than the political status of Puerto Rico, current or future.
                      Helping the future of Puerto Rico is very important. Though, that goes hand in hand with the status issue. Whether they grow up and take what they've learned from you and find a job goes with the status issue. Again, it's effects everything Puerto Rican. You don't have to care about it, but someone must. So that your students can have a happy life. I commend you on your efforts none-the-less.

                      Originally posted by GringoinPR
                      So, go ahead and call me ignorant and hardheaded. Sling those stereotypes and prejudices. It's all you have! My efforts, at the very least, are going towards confronting real issues and helping the children realize their dreams...
                      I may call you ignorant and hardheaded. As I wrote before, I only insulted you because you came onto this thread with such ferocity. You tried to refute everything I wrote, but without anything to show for it. It's not the fact you tried to refute them, I like a good arguement, but the way you tried to insult me and others who seek democracy and justice in Puerto Rico. (Independentistas.) For that, you deserved what you received.

                      Though, politics is not all I have. I have much more in my life, like you have those students in yours. Political status is the real issue. It will either make those children's dreams come true or destroy their lives. (Estadidad) Maybe if you didn't have a self-esteem so low that you degrade yourself to thinking that your other ethnicity is something to be ashamed of in the eyes of Puerto Ricans, you could understand that...or at least care. Take care and I hope you enjoy your stay on the forum. I'm not that bad of a person, lol.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ecuajey
                        Originally posted by Radrook
                        Look at Viequez, out of 12,000 residents living there, only a few hundred showed up to protest at the beach.
                        Actually, it's a little less than 10,000 citizens. Even if many of the protesters were from mainland Puerto Rico, on July 29th, 2001, 68% of Vieques voters voted to end military exercises. The USA gov't and military ignored that. A democratic vote against the bombing by the permenant citizens of the island.


                        Response:

                        Then the United States should STOP this abuse of human rights immediately. For shame!




                        Originally posted by Radrook
                        So, when a people thinks this way, then the best thing to do is let them be.
                        Think which way? Those who support commonwealth and statehood need to learn the truth of their cause. If they don't, they will continue to run blind into the street until they are hit by a truck; allowing the rest of their family (The Puerto Rican people.) to suffer.



                        Hi!

                        I agree that people should know exactly where they stand.
                        It has been more than eighty years that los Indedpendentistas have been explaining this situation to these people with absolutely no result. So if anyone is becoming enlightened--it certainly hasn't been enough to cause a nationwide turning of a consensus against commonwealth or statehood. Most Puertoricans STILL prefer these to independence despite their knowing all this data that is being disseminated by the Independentistas.

                        The more the Indedpendentistas explain Puerto Rico's true condition and the pro and the cons of this whole situation to the Puerto Rican people, the more stubbornly they hold on to their preference for either statehood or commonwealth status. Why? Because they feel independence to be a threat to their standard of living. They feel that of all the options--independence offers the least. This despite the 80 years of explanations offered them and the very persuasive arguments--such as yours--repeatedly brought to their attention.

                        So when I refer to people thinking this way, I am referring to people who just don't wish to listen or give any credence to the independentistas because they prefer to either stay as they are or transfer to statehood regardless. Self determination via independence is of very little value to such ones which unfortunately are the majority. Only the gain or loss of material comfort concerns them. These are those that I am referring to. These are the ones that are best left alone since their minds are hermetically sealed in such a way as to not permit any other view than the views they have held, hold--and will continue to hold since they are obviously impervious to any type of persuasion via logical reasoning or appeal to personal dignity via self-determination.





                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Radrook
                          Most Puertoricans STILL prefer these to independence despite their knowing all this data that is being disseminated by the Independentistas.
                          Actually, the majority of Puerto Ricans don't know most of the data I posted on this thread. The PIP have done a terrible job in trying to persuade the PR people in seeking independence. They simply given up. However, the PPD and PNP have done a terrific job in scaring the Puerto Rican people in turning away from independence. The Independence movement has existed for centuries. Its climax was on September 18th, 1868. 'El Grito de Lares.' We finally won in late 1897, but a few months later, on July 25th 1898, were invaded by the USA and handed over by the Treaty of Paris. The PR peoples support for independence was always in the majority until the PPD came along (1940's) and preached something the independence never did but should've. A way to improve their economic standard of living. That, idiot terrorists in the 60's-80's and a horrific campaign by both the PR and USA gov't to discredit and destroy the independence movement, lead to decline of support.

                          Originally posted by Radrook
                          Only the gain or loss of material comfort concerns them.
                          If only they knew that statehood is the real threat to that. If only they knew that the ELA hasn't produced significance advances since the 1970's. They fear change, because they've been taught that change, or anything away from USA dominicance, is bad. Eventually, independence will have to take place. We can't keep declining without opposition under the ELA, and statehood is both not a viable solution to our problems nor going to take place. What we have left is something we must work on and something that will be better.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ecuajey
                            Originally posted by Radrook
                            Most Puertoricans STILL prefer these to independence despite their knowing all this data that is being disseminated by the Independentistas.
                            Actually, the majority of Puerto Ricans don't know most of the data I posted on this thread. The PIP have done a terrible job in trying to persuade the PR people in seeking independence. They simply given up. However, the PPD and PNP have done a terrific job in scaring the Puerto Rican people in turning away from independence. The Independence movement has existed for centuries. Its climax was on September 18th, 1868. 'El Grito de Lares.' We finally won in late 1897, but a few months later, on July 25th 1898, were invaded by the USA and handed over by the Treaty of Paris. The PR peoples support for independence was always in the majority until the PPD came along (1940's) and preached something the independence never did but should've. A way to improve their economic standard of living. That, idiot terrorists in the 60's-80's and a horrific campaign by both the PR and USA gov't to discredit and destroy the independence movement, lead to decline of support.







                            Reply:

                            If they do not know, it is because they don't want to know. They immediately reject everything shown them as either communist propaganda or else Independentista lies. It is a mental condition similar to the proverbial egg that we jokingly speak about as impermeably sealed.


                            It is not inability to understand. Neither is it lack of effort on the part of sincere persons such as yourself. Neither is it lack of evidence to support the data which is provided them. Simply and sadly, they are culturally conditioned to refuse or to even as much as ever slightly concede that they are being treated unjustly in any way manner or form by the United States.

                            It is a knee-jerk type of denial behavior which automatically and effortlessly kicks in whenever and if ever they are shown anything which might pose a threat to their idealistic image of America as anything other than the benevolent military and industrial giant who rescued Puerto Rico from the pernicious clutches of the avariciously-inclined Spaniards.


                            Because of this systemtic pro American socialization, we get a population which is more fanatically pro American than the most fanatical American on the mainland! In fact, Puerto Rican has murdered Puerto Rican based merely on disagreements concerning the issues you raise. True, you can raise them here in the USA and are under no special danger. But do so on the island and history has clearly shown just how murderously nationalistic Puerto Ricans can be whenever their hero nation--The United States--is spoken badly about or is portrayed in anything other than the soft light of idealism.

                            This self-perpetuating mentality, of course, is what causes those on the island to view any complaints which Puerto Ricans living on the mainland have about discrimination as either imaginary or else of perhaps being local anomalies in the American way of life. Sadly, this rationalization of denial is extended further to such incidents as that at Vieques.




                            In short, what you have here is a hermetically sealed coconut which refuses to open up regardless of the machetazos that you hit it with.

                            BTW
                            The truth of the matter is that Puerto Ricans on the island do NOT feel the victimization you tell them about. They don't feel abused. They feel themselves blessed by association and via extension some wish to further bless themselves by statehood. They look around at the Latin nations and see poverty and wish to avoid it. This is normal and natural since all organisms flee from pain and chase after comfort and pleasure.

                            I would say, and I say this with no malice--that the future of the island [barring divine intervention] will continue as is due to American reluctance to accept Puerto Rico as a state and Puerto Rican Reluctance to become a state. It is a matter of both nations wanting to eat their cake and have it too! LOL



















                            Originally posted by Radrook
                            Only the gain or loss of material comfort concerns them.
                            If only they knew that statehood is the real threat to that. If only they knew that the ELA hasn't produced significance advances since the 1970's. They fear change, because they've been taught that change, or anything away from USA dominicance, is bad. Eventually, independence will have to take place. We can't keep declining without opposition under the ELA, and statehood is both not a viable solution to our problems nor going to take place. What we have left is something we must work on and something that will be better.

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                            • #15
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                              Reply:

                              First, there is something which Puerto Ricans who advocate statehood seem to not realize. They do NOT realize that the very desire and willingness to give up their liberty to a culturally alien nation is offensive the American way of thinking. Accepting Puerto Rico as a state is tantamount to accepting a state in which its culture is one that does NOT value self determination. This goes completely contrary to the American ideal of fighting to be independent because self determination is held as nonnegotiable by all TRUE Americans. So acceptance of Puerto Rico as a state would require an incorporation of a people not only racially distinct, but who are offensively idealistically distinct as well. The former, the United States people could conceivably tolerate. The latter, they would NEVER stomach

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