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  • #16
    Radrook....

    I was unbable to read most of your post because you made it hard for me to do so. Please, don't mix your post within mines. If you're going to quote my post, please write under [/ Q U O T E] at the end of my post.

    Anyway, I support your views on statehood, but not on the docile Puerto Ricans. Things cannot and will not continue the way it is for long. At some point in time, change will have to come. Things aren't improving on the island, they're getting worse. Puerto Ricans are in a majority, followers. When they see something that will benefit their lives, they follow. When they something that's a threat to their lives, they move away. The Independence movement has done a terrible job in persuading them. The PPD and PNP have done a terrific job in scaring them. Anyway, what political status do you support?

    Comment


    • #17
      PR will never be the 51st state

      I agree with the independistas that PR must become self sufficient and independent. This "commonwealth" is nothing but a huge handout that has made Puerto Rico a nation of beggars.

      There are those who claim that the US keeps Puerto Rico because of some fantasy about there being billions of dollars in PR. The fact of the matter is, most of the money spent in or by PR comes from the US. It is no surprise that the currency used is the US Dollar.

      Nearly 30 percent of the population is employed by the PR Government or by the Municipalities. Less than half of the residents in PR pay no income taxes of any type. The vast majority of the money powering the PR gov comes in the form of direct cash payments from the US Government or from the Patentes charged to the large US Corporations. That influx of cash makes it possible for PR to have such a high degree of consumerism. Without it, PR would be something like Haiti.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by slyguy
        There are those who claim that the US keeps Puerto Rico because of some fantasy about there being billions of dollars in PR. The fact of the matter is, most of the money spent in or by PR comes from the US. It is no surprise that the currency used is the US Dollar.Nearly 30 percent of the population is employed by the PR Government or by the Municipalities. Less than half of the residents in PR pay no income taxes of any type. The vast majority of the money powering the PR gov comes in the form of direct cash payments from the US Government or from the Patentes charged to the large US Corporations. That influx of cash makes it possible for PR to have such a high degree of consumerism. Without it, PR would be something like Haiti.
        The budget of the Puerto Rico government for Fiscal year 2003-2004 is $23,726,948,000. Federal funds for that budget and Federal programs consolidated to the PR gov't reaches $4,725,518,000. Therefore, Federal funds administered to the PR gov't only constituents 19.91% of the PR Budget. The GDP reached $68 billion in 2001. 19.91% Is a far from what you described Federal funds as being the "life source" of the PR gov't, which does indeed employ 1/3 of the 1.3 million workforce. However, as is well known, Puerto Rico has a bloated bureaucracy and much of the money used isn't a necessity.

        As for USA multi-national corporations, they do contribute a lot, but being in Puerto Rico, they also make a lot. There are 2,300 industrial plants in PR, which make about $63 billion totaloff of PR. The pharmaceutical industry, the largest on the island, profits $28 billion off the island, produces 25% of the total value of USA pharmaceutical shipments, and 16 out of the top 20 pharmaceutical drugs are produced on the island. There are also 200,000 jobs on the mainland USA that are linked to the PR economy. Also, Puerto Rico is not allowed to trade directly with most nations, so it must receive its goods straight from the USA. So Puerto Rico is charged many, many times more than what the USA paid for them from other countries, such as China and Japan. Also, these goods must be sent through the USA shipping marines, which are the most expensive in the world.

        These are the prime reasons that I think the USA gov't keeps Puerto Rico as a colony. It contributes only a fraction to what it's companies make off PR. Therefore, your so-called "fantasy" is actually a reality.

        So in a way, most of spending money - by consumerists - is tied to the USA. However, that doesn't necessarily signify the USA gov't (So if the funds are cut, it won't be a road to Haiti) and that's why I believe independence can and will work. (Not going through the USA shipping marines and USA gov't bureaucracy for tax-initiatives, international business agreements and trade, and labor costs will make things easier.)

        BTW,
        Yes, USA currency is used in Puerto Rico, but not even that is owned by the USA gov't, but the Federal Reserve - a private company.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ecuajey
          Originally posted by slyguy
          There are those who claim that the US keeps Puerto Rico because of some fantasy about there being billions of dollars in PR. The fact of the matter is, most of the money spent in or by PR comes from the US. It is no surprise that the currency used is the US Dollar.Nearly 30 percent of the population is employed by the PR Government or by the Municipalities. Less than half of the residents in PR pay no income taxes of any type. The vast majority of the money powering the PR gov comes in the form of direct cash payments from the US Government or from the Patentes charged to the large US Corporations. That influx of cash makes it possible for PR to have such a high degree of consumerism. Without it, PR would be something like Haiti.
          The budget of the Puerto Rico government for Fiscal year 2003-2004 is $23,726,948,000. Federal funds for that budget and Federal programs consolidated to the PR gov't reaches $4,725,518,000. Therefore, Federal funds administered to the PR gov't only constituents 19.91% of the PR Budget. The GDP reached $68 billion in 2001. 19.91% Is a far from what you described Federal funds as being the "life source" of the PR gov't, which does indeed employ 1/3 of the 1.3 million workforce. However, as is well known, Puerto Rico has a bloated bureaucracy and much of the money used isn't a necessity.

          ***Further, the total dollars the US gov dispersed to PR Gov last year was in the area of 14-16 billion dollars, depending on the various sources of estimates cited in PR Newspapers.***

          As for USA multi-national corporations, they do contribute a lot, but being in Puerto Rico, they also make a lot. There are 2,300 industrial plants in PR, which make about $63 billion totaloff of PR. The pharmaceutical industry, the largest on the island, profits $28 billion off the island, produces 25% of the total value of USA pharmaceutical shipments, and 16 out of the top 20 pharmaceutical drugs are produced on the island. There are also 200,000 jobs on the mainland USA that are linked to the PR economy. Also, Puerto Rico is not allowed to trade directly with most nations, so it must receive its goods straight from the USA. So Puerto Rico is charged many, many times more than what the USA paid for them from other countries, such as China and Japan. Also, these goods must be sent through the USA shipping marines, which are the most expensive in the world.

          ***You still don't understand. PR DOESN'T HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ITS OWN. The Multinationals bring in a lot of dollars in form of jobs. They also spend billions on the local infrastructure because the local government can't afford to do it on it's own. This is why all the roads leading to Arecibo are fabulous, when compared to the rest of the island. Do you really think Pfizer is going to put up with roads, inadequate water, phone and electrical service like the ones in Santurce?

          Your assertion that "$63 billion total
          off of PR" makes no sense, because if they did that would mean that PR spent 63 billion dollars buying pharmacueticals - sheer fantasy! The only benefit to having factories in PR is because of the soon to be departed tax benefits. Many of the factories are now moving to China where they don't have to pay high labor costs or benefits.***

          These are the prime reasons that I think the USA gov't keeps Puerto Rico as a colony. It contributes only a fraction to what it's companies make off PR. Therefore, your so-called "fantasy" is actually a reality.

          ***Again, your "reality" does not exist. The only reason PR was ever kept in the first place was because of it's strategic importance. Since that is no longer the case due to the fall of the Former Soviet Union, Puerto Rico is no longer needed. It's my belief that independence is coming, probably within the next decade if not sooner.***

          So in a way, most of spending money - by consumerists - is tied to the USA. However, that doesn't necessarily signify the USA gov't (So if the funds are cut, it won't be a road to Haiti) and that's why I believe independence can and will work. (Not going through the USA shipping marines and USA gov't bureaucracy for tax-initiatives, international business agreements and trade, and labor costs will make things easier.)

          BTW,
          Yes, USA currency is used in Puerto Rico, but not even that is owned by the USA gov't, but the Federal Reserve - a private company. [/B]
          ***The Federal Reserve is a Federal Agency - not a private corporation.***

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by slyguy
            Further, the total dollars the US gov dispersed to PR Gov last year was in the area of 14-16 billion dollars, depending on the various sources of estimates cited in PR Newspapers.
            You were writing about how the USA gov't powers the PR gov't. The budget information I provided shows the contrary. Therefore, you were wrong. The money you now cite is the money sent to support federal programs on the island.

            Originally posted by slyguy
            You still don't understand. PR DOESN'T HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ITS OWN. The Multinationals bring in a lot of dollars in form of jobs. They also spend billions on the local infrastructure because the local government can't afford to do it on it's own. This is why all the roads leading to Arecibo are fabulous, when compared to the rest of the island. Do you really think Pfizer is going to put up with roads, inadequate water, phone and electrical service like the ones in Santurce?
            Just look at the budget information, only 19.91% comes from the Federal gov't. Where does the other billions in that budget come from, since it isn't from the Federal gov't? You can check the facts at: http://www.presupuesto.gobierno.pr "There are some 110,000 small businesses in Puerto Rico, which together generate 63% of all new jobs and 48% of the island’s gross domestic product, according to the U.S. Census Bureau and the local Commerce Development Administration. Small businesses are indeed the engine that keeps the Puerto Rico economy running." - José L. Carmona, Caribbean Business, July 10, 2003.

            Also, Fomento Industrial, a PR gov't corporation, spends millions in industrial parks and infrastructure as to attract foreign businesses in a competitive global market. "...PRIDCO owns 25 million sq. ft. industrial real estate, owns structures ranging from 4,000 sq. ft to 100,000 sq. ft., develops, constructs and maintains industrial buildings. PRIDCO will also build to suit specifications under leaseback or purchase agreements." http://www.pridco.com

            As for the roads on the island, most of that is payed by the PR gov't, because Federal laws dictates that it will only provide Federal funds for roads for USA states or territories that have drinking age laws 21 or over. Puerto Rico's age law is 18. How many places have you been on the island? The roads and highways in Juncos are terrific, the same for Caguas, Humacao, and most of the island. El Departamento de Transportación y Obras Públicas usually oversees infrastructural projects, which many times it hires private sector businesses to build. That doesn't signify that the PR gov't can't afford it, because it is paying millions, sometimes billions, for the services, it just wants to be seen as pro-business and have things built by experts.

            As for Santurce, it depends what you consider as Santurce. If you mean Barrio Obrero or Luis Lloréns Torres, then you're right, but other parts of Santurce, such as Miramar, Trastalleres, Condado, Ocean Park, Buenos Aires...etc the services are pretty good.

            Originally posted by slyguy
            Your assertion that "$63 billion total off of PR" makes no sense, because if they did that would mean that PR spent 63 billion dollars buying pharmacueticals - sheer fantasy! The only benefit to having factories in PR is because of the soon to be departed tax benefits.
            By that I meant that these pharmacuetical companies make that money from creating their products in their PR factories and labor source. Also, if you're writing about section 936, which the past Rosselló administration allowed to be destroyed, then you're right, the manufacturing industry is being hurt because of that. However, there have been many factories that have stayed, and even are being developed in Barceloneta, Juncos, Mayagüez, and many other towns and cities. The USA corporate presence is evident.

            Originally posted by slyguy
            The only reason PR was ever kept in the first place was because of it's strategic importance. Since that is no longer the case due to the fall of the Former Soviet Union, Puerto Rico is no longer needed. It's my belief that independence is coming, probably within the next decade if not sooner.
            That is already known. With the closing of the Navy base in Vieques (Thank God) and the soon to be closing of Roosevelt Roads, that military importance is withering. However, I'm not sure that will indicate a USA Congressional push for independence. Just a few weeks ago a bill to allow binding referendums on status in PR barely passed by 1 vote in the USA House and stalled - like it always does - in the USA Senate. Remember, there is the USA corporate presence in PR that is a benefit to the USA economy and under both independence and statehood that presence could be threatened.

            Originally posted by slyguy
            The Federal Reserve is a Federal Agency - not a private corporation.
            Really? That's a common misperception since the word 'Federal' is in there and the Federal gov't did create the system, however "Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stock-holding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors." Lewis v. United States, Federal Reporter, 2nd Series, Vol. 680, Pages 1239, 1241 (1982)

            [Edited by Ecuajey on 31st August 2003 at 08:54]

            Comment


            • #21
              Independence is coming soon

              And it won't be pretty. However it will be much better than if Puerto Rico becomes a state, because of the economic disaster that will happen. The only reason PR has large American Factories is due to IRS regulations that allow those factories profits to go untaxed. If statehood happens, those regulations will go out the window.

              With independence, Puerto Rico will also be able to tax imports as well as set up its own trade treaties.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Ecuajey
                Originally posted by slyguy
                Further, the total dollars the US gov dispersed to PR Gov last year was in the area of 14-16 billion dollars, depending on the various sources of estimates cited in PR Newspapers.
                You were writing about how the USA gov't powers the PR gov't. The budget information I provided shows the contrary. Therefore, you were wrong. The money you now cite is the money sent to support federal programs on the island.

                Originally posted by slyguy
                You still don't understand. PR DOESN'T HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF ITS OWN. The Multinationals bring in a lot of dollars in form of jobs. They also spend billions on the local infrastructure because the local government can't afford to do it on it's own. This is why all the roads leading to Arecibo are fabulous, when compared to the rest of the island. Do you really think Pfizer is going to put up with roads, inadequate water, phone and electrical service like the ones in Santurce?
                Just look at the budget information, only 19.91% comes from the Federal gov't. Where does the other billions in that budget come from, since it isn't from the Federal gov't? You can check the facts at: http://www.presupuesto.gobierno.pr "There are some 110,000 small businesses in Puerto Rico, which together generate 63% of all new jobs and 48% of the island’s gross domestic product, according to the U.S. Census Bureau and the local Commerce Development Administration. Small businesses are indeed the engine that keeps the Puerto Rico economy running." - José L. Carmona, Caribbean Business, July 10, 2003.

                Also, Fomento Industrial, a PR gov't corporation, spends millions in industrial parks and infrastructure as to attract foreign businesses in a competitive global market. "...PRIDCO owns 25 million sq. ft. industrial real estate, owns structures ranging from 4,000 sq. ft to 100,000 sq. ft., develops, constructs and maintains industrial buildings. PRIDCO will also build to suit specifications under leaseback or purchase agreements." http://www.pridco.com

                As for the roads on the island, most of that is payed by the PR gov't, because Federal laws dictates that it will only provide Federal funds for roads for USA states or territories that have drinking age laws 21 or over. Puerto Rico's age law is 18. How many places have you been on the island? The roads and highways in Juncos are terrific, the same for Caguas, Humacao, and most of the island. El Departamento de Transportación y Obras Públicas usually oversees infrastructural projects, which many times it hires private sector businesses to build. That doesn't signify that the PR gov't can't afford it, because it is paying millions, sometimes billions, for the services, it just wants to be seen as pro-business and have things built by experts.

                As for Santurce, it depends what you consider as Santurce. If you mean Barrio Obrero or Luis Lloréns Torres, then you're right, but other parts of Santurce, such as Miramar, Trastalleres, Condado, Ocean Park, Buenos Aires...etc the services are pretty good.

                Originally posted by slyguy
                Your assertion that "$63 billion total off of PR" makes no sense, because if they did that would mean that PR spent 63 billion dollars buying pharmacueticals - sheer fantasy! The only benefit to having factories in PR is because of the soon to be departed tax benefits.
                By that I meant that these pharmacuetical companies make that money from creating their products in their PR factories and labor source. Also, if you're writing about section 936, which the past Rosselló administration allowed to be destroyed, then you're right, the manufacturing industry is being hurt because of that. However, there have been many factories that have stayed, and even are being developed in Barceloneta, Juncos, Mayagüez, and many other towns and cities. The USA corporate presence is evident.

                Originally posted by slyguy
                The only reason PR was ever kept in the first place was because of it's strategic importance. Since that is no longer the case due to the fall of the Former Soviet Union, Puerto Rico is no longer needed. It's my belief that independence is coming, probably within the next decade if not sooner.
                That is already known. With the closing of the Navy base in Vieques (Thank God) and the soon to be closing of Roosevelt Roads, that military importance is withering. However, I'm not sure that will indicate a USA Congressional push for independence. Just a few weeks ago a bill to allow binding referendums on status in PR barely passed by 1 vote in the USA House and stalled - like it always does - in the USA Senate. Remember, there is the USA corporate presence in PR that is a benefit to the USA economy and under both independence and statehood that presence could be threatened.

                Originally posted by slyguy
                The Federal Reserve is a Federal Agency - not a private corporation.
                Really? That's a common misperception since the word 'Federal' is in there and the Federal gov't did create the system, however "Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stock-holding commercial banks elect two thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors." Lewis v. United States, Federal Reporter, 2nd Series, Vol. 680, Pages 1239, 1241 (1982)

                [Edited by Ecuajey on 31st August 2003 at 08:54]
                Ecuagey, you and I will argue till the end of time and we will never agree on anything. The fact of the matter is, PR will be independent, probably within the next 10 years FINALLY THANK GOD.

                Once the money stops flowing into PR, you will find out what it is to work for a living, which is truly a novel idea given the high number of welfare recipients on the island. The last estimate I saw gave over 100,000 families in PR alone.

                I'm not saying the whole island is on welfare. I'm saying that all the people *****ing about the US typically are the first one's with their hands extended when the hurricane's hit the island or when they need financial assistance.

                Berrios is not a Martyr, because if he was, then he'd be dead. The party's that will rule Puerto Rico will be pretty much the PNP and Populares. If you think there is controversy now, just wait until these clowns have to represent your country at the UN, or in trade negotiations with other countries. I think it was Colin Powell who recently had to "***** slap" Sila because she was off pretending to be a head of state. If you think that was outrageous, just give her party a little more time to prepare. Next time it will be even more shocking...

                Oh and as for your incorrect assertion that the Federal Reserve is a "private corporation," please read and weep. You can go to their website:

                http://www.federalreserve.gov/faq.htm

                ".gov" is soley used by GOVernment agencies, not private corporations.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by slyguy
                  Ecuagey, you and I will argue till the end of time and we will never agree on anything. The fact of the matter is, PR will be independent, probably within the next 10 years FINALLY THANK GOD.
                  Ni puedo esperar hasta Puerto Rico la logra. Sin embargo, es interesante que dices que en los próximos 10 años pasará. ¿Trabajas cercamente con el gobierno estadounidense? ¿Conoces muchos congresistas? Había gente que dijo por décadas que la independencia o estadidad logrará en poco tiempo, y mira, no las han materializada. Creeré cuando la veo.

                  Originally posted by slyguy
                  Once the money stops flowing into PR, you will find out what it is to work for a living, which is truly a novel idea given the high number of welfare recipients on the island. The last estimate I saw gave over 100,000 families in PR alone.
                  Otra vez, como te enseñé, Puerto Rico tiene más de su proprio dinero que la reciba y la mayoría no la necesita. También, trabajo y pago por mis proprias necesidades. Además, todo el mundo sabe que la mayoría de los cuponeros no la necesitan.

                  Originally posted by slyguy
                  Berrios is not a Martyr, because if he was, then he'd be dead. The party's that will rule Puerto Rico will be pretty much the PNP and Populares.
                  ¿Te escribí que Berrios es un mártir? No soy miembro del PIP, ni de los otros partidos. También, no creo que el PIP ni el PNP existirán después la independencia. Es muy probable que los miembros del PIP y los izquerdistas del PPD y del PNP creerán un partido izquerdista mientras los conservadores creerán su proprio partido. Será una mezcla porque el problema del status no existirá.

                  Originally posted by slyguy
                  Oh and as for your incorrect assertion that the Federal Reserve is a "private corporation," please read and weep. You can go to their website:

                  http://www.federalreserve.gov/faq.htm

                  ".gov" is soley used by GOVernment agencies, not private corporations.
                  Recuerda, te escribí que el gobierno estadounidense creó ese sistema de bancos, sin embargo, en esa página dice casi exactamente lo que te escribí.

                  "The Federal Reserve System is composed of a central, governmental agency--the Board of Governors--in Washington, D.C., and twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation."

                  "Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects."

                  "It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms."

                  Pues, no es exactamente una corporación privada, pero seguramente no es una corporación pública.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow ohhhhhhh. you can be a comedian Equajey.

                    Funny!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hello to all my Puerto Rican sisters and brothers. I am from the Philadelphia area in Pa, born and raised. Someone please enlighten me is to why some Puerto Ricans want statehood. I really want to know because I am not from PR however I am thinking of moving to PR.

                      Last year I visted Puerto Rico it is beautiful. My cousin lives in Caguas and it was a relief from city life in the USA. The water alone made my skin soft. I went in December the weather was beautiful, I slept so well at night. I was amazed by the shopping malls, the tax free shopping. I was impressed by the Puerto Rican couples that were holding hands everywhere, you don't see that much over here in the US.

                      My impression of PR was:

                      The island is beautiful the water, trees, plants.......people please keep it clean.

                      The island have all the stores that are over in the US plus more.......without the high ass taxes.

                      I was happy to go into places like sames club and see Puerto Rican food to go ..........you don't see that over here in the US.

                      Many people their drive around in the cars.

                      The houses are small but so beautiful.

                      People still display affection towards each other in the mall,etc......people some how forget that in the states....it is doggy dog everyone for themselves over here.

                      The women still take pride in their appearance....Some do over here.

                      Maybe I saw PR through a vistors eyes or rose color glasses. However why do you guys want to become a state. Let me tell you as a US citizen. Very few of us represent in the Corporate world and when we do it is hurdles like racism, stereotypes, etc. That is why I want to work for myself. The US don't care nothing about the poor and the middle class, only the rich. Look at our current events, look at our educational system. The middle class and poor pay dam near all of the taxes. You guys will have to face this if you become a state.......Federal taxes are high. If you think you will benefit for help from the government well don't make more than $8.00 hours......because after that you don't qualify for any assistance with childcare, food, etc.....maybe housing. The system is designed to keep the poor poor and the middle to become class poor.

                      There are benefits to being a citizens of the US. However their are draw backs like taxes on everything.

                      Someone enlighten me.




                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ecuajey
                        1. “puertorriqueñidad:”
                        [/i]

                        You represent well, I wish more New Yorkricans was like this, most just care about calling themselves Puerto Rican and going to parade like if its an accomplishment, most have no idea, or care about the issues going on in Puerto Rico today, lol hell alot of teens in Puerto Rico don't even care no more

                        Too much propoganda bull**** is killing our nativism/nationalism.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Spain decided to let us go???? Spain begged the United States to let it keep Puerto Rico. In fact, just prior to the USA invasion Spain was planning to make Puerto Rico one if its provinces. But of course the United states refused to comply and Spain was too weak militarily to do anything about it. This whole thread reminds me of how a certain relative r used to react when I suggested PR independence. There were two answers always GIVEN.


                          1. DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE RUSSIANS WALKING DOWN OUR STREETS?--given back during the Cold War days.
                          2. Entonces nos morimos de hambre.

                          When I mentioned other Latino nations that were not under Russian rule he shifted to the dying from hunger tactic. He also stated that we are envied by these nations who wish they were part of the USA. Since those conversations I have found out that this line of reasoning is really what most PRs believe. Unfortunately, the belief is backed up by a willingness to get violent if you try to clarify the issues or suggest that the issues aren't really as clear-cut as they think. For example, if PR gained Independence it is still; protected by the Monroe Doctrine. just as every other country in this hemisphere is like it or not. Additionally, not all countries would relinquish their freedom for material benefits. Otherwise they would all be begging the USA to annex them and they don't. Finally, it's better to suffer some material inconvenience in order to gain dignity which the island at present lacks in the eyes of all other nations who do value their freedom and despise those who don't.


                          BTW
                          This low opinion of Puerto Rican character, a character that trades its dignity for material comfort goes completely contrary to what the USA requires from its citizens. It tolerates it now because PR is just a territory and it doesn't reflect on the USA dignity directly. But incorporating such a people with such a servile mentality as a state is another matter altogether.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It's a little bit more

                            Originally posted by Radrook View Post

                            BTW
                            This low opinion of Puerto Rican character, a character that trades its dignity for material comfort goes completely contrary to what the USA requires from its citizens. It tolerates it now because PR is just a territory and it doesn't reflect on the USA dignity directly. But incorporating such a people with such a servile mentality as a state is another matter altogether.
                            Although most of the discussions about Statehood are kinda Folkloric and simplistic, nevertheless the generalized thinking among Puerto Ricans, on Mainland and on the island, is that it all depends on us.
                            Don't beliieve me? Check out Puerto Rican forums.

                            The most powerful reason Puerto Rico hasn't become a State, is not because we won't vote for it, it's all about GRINGO NATIONAL INTERESTS.

                            There are also other kinks like a Spanish, which in the Tea Party era has become A LARGER KINK.

                            American Citizenship is also a kink, however they don't call the USA the most powerful and astute nation on this planet for nothing. They'll find a way to get outta this one, and most Puerto Ricans won't even see it coming.

                            National Interests? You guys decide if the USA is dumb or not.

                            As a state we'll have seven or eight representatives with two senators, forming a power block larger than 27 English speaking states! We then can have the potential to form congressional coalitions with other Hispanic groups, creating a huge congressional voting block that will out strip the majority of the Tea Bag States! If Republicans fear rising deficits and Brown power, a Puerto Rican state, where 76% will live off the dole, will give them night mares.

                            That's why Statehood might not be in our tarrot cards, even though a growing number of Puerto Ricans SWEAR THAT'LL BE!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Excellent Argument brother

                              Ecuajey,

                              Thank you for posting this.Im new to this forum but I have been proposing (most of) the same arguments for years to many of my Puerto Rican friends. The truth is that you I am VERY pro-independence but I do not agree with everything that the PIP says or even stands for. The truth is that you enlightened me on a few other things as well and that only happened after I researched them myself. Thank you.

                              I was born in Arecibo and lived in PR for 8 years. I have to thank my family for still maintaining Spanish at home, my pride in my island as well as my culture. I visited a few times since then but then after I joined the Army, I went 7 years without seeing my true home. I live in Miami and I now make it a point to visit a few times a year and am currently looking for a house and a job there.

                              The reason I am reaching out to you is, because I want to propose something to you. Please send me a message whenever you get the opportunity. I am currently working on something and would like to have the input and contributions of somebody that is as equally passionate on this subject as I am. Youre very right, the problem with Puerto Ricans is that most of us are very ignorant to the truths. When we are confronted with them, we immediately reject them because they are not what we have engrained into our own minds.

                              I will explain further in a reply if you are indeed interested or at least intrigued.

                              Thanks again for your well informed post. You get two thumbs up!

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                              • #30
                                These people aren't going nowhere with statehood or with independence because they have been and will continue to be mentally and emotionally emasculated. Their own culture perpetuates a helpless mentality because they view that mentality as a virtue. Once a culture raises helplessness to a virtue then there is no way in which that cultural group will try to lift itself out of its self-made prison because it doesn't consider it a prison at all. In order to change that situation you have to change the culture and the culture has been going that way for more than one-hundred colonized years and there is no sign of it slowing down. So until Puerto Ricans can come to see helplessness as what it is-a vice-they will continue to remain as is. However, if there is a change it definitely will not be toward independence since independence goes against the deeply ingrained helplessness concept. It will be an attempt at increasing their helpless status by grabbing on to USA citizenship. If rejected by the USA-which is exceedingly likely-they will simply fall back on the colonial status or territory net and feel all's right with the universe again.

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