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Answer to VOICE: my opionion on Israel.

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  • replied
    To Voice and El Jibby (the intolerant one)

    In 1998 I tutored some women in 1998...One I would call Eleanor....long story short half of these women were Pentecostals from the same sect as El Jibby here in Denver. Lol. None of them had a GED and they needed one to get semi decent wage earning office jobs to help their families. We worked very hard together over two years (after my work hours and after they cooked and took care of their children). Eleanor especially she was an older woman...and had a tough time since she had been out of school since age 14 and at 52 it was tough for her to try to learn high school level material (she had only gotten a fourth grade education in Mexico). She loved her bible and would bring it to class every time. She wanted to do well in the writing part of the exam and did not prefer the wide spectrum of world lit books available, so she requested I sit with her and that we practice reading the bible together. She loved when I read it to her out loud, when occassionally her prespriction glasses would tire her eyes out and she could no longer read her favorite passages. I would read her favorite parts and she would then ask my opinion of what it meant.....it makes me smile to think of what she said to me, "debes predicar....percibes la palabra mejor que nuestro pastor".....I did not want to offend her by telling her I belonged to a religion from India. She took the longest graduating....more than the younger women and when she finally passed her last test....I gave her a new large print bible....and she gave me a lovely small Spanish version one....."santa biblia"....on the cover.

    When she found out through someone I was not Christian she said something interesting....."claro que ella es cristiana, y de las mejores.....'por sus frutos los conoceran' y eso es lo que es ser cristiano". I will never forget her. But those who are intolerant and only pay attention to labels and not acts or what Voice calls "manners" and "ethics" really don't have a religion.

    Lol. Suki.

    This is what she Eleanor wrote on the bible she gave me on the front blank page "Porque yo soy tu Dios quien te sostiene de la mano derecha, no temes yo te ayudo' Isaias 41. Tu mama Eleanor. Tu mano me ha sostenido Maestra Vida. "

    Eleanor.

    I like this proverb too....lol. Proverbios 22:16 From Eleanor's Santa Biblia (that happens to be next to my computer near the broken printer). Lol. it says:

    El que oprime el pobre por aumentar sus ganancias,
    O el que da al rico, ciertamente se empobrecera.

    Those who oppress poor people (like the Capitalists out there....lol. That El Jib, Opp and others adore) or those who support those rich people....example, investors in Wall Street with the lemma "greed is good".....will become poor. Because they are believing in a system that is inherently unjust. And the Christians, Israelis, Muslims etc. etc. do not have an exclusive contract on injustice and or atrocities....the Godless are the ones who judge, who dehumanize, who are intolerant, closed minded, and completely self righteous...thinking that God is the exclusive territory of their Religious convictions and by default all other beliefs are inherently satanic and wrong and therefore inhuman...and therefore those who do not share their exact belief system are not human or "real humans" and it is okay to kill them or torture them or do horrible unspeakable acts to them....all in the name of the Lord. They are definitely the busy bees of the devil incarnate in my opinion....

    [Edited by Suki on 7th December 2002 at 19:51]

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    You are twisted Jibaro

    the atrocities by ISRAELIs are uncomparable both in Quantity and in Quality... US did most atrocities than any other nation in World.. Don't deny facts.

    More over.. Atrocities Does not Justify Atrocities...

    my question:

    DO YOU CONDEMN ISRAELI ATROCITIES OR NOT ?

    Leave a comment:


  • El_Jibaro
    started a topic Answer to VOICE: my opionion on Israel.

    Answer to VOICE: my opionion on Israel.

    [i]My opinion on Israel is based on the BIBLE. Too bad your Koran is worthless compared to the BIBLE.
    Letter of the Apostle Paul to the Christian Romans Chapters 9-11


    Gods Selection of Israel

    1 In the presence of Christ, I speak with utter truthfulness--I do not lie--and my conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm that what I am saying is true. 2 My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief 3 for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters. I would be willing to be forever cursed--cut off from Christ!--if that would save them. 4 They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God's special children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave his law to them. They have the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises. 5 Their ancestors were great people of God, and Christ himself was a Jew as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

    6 Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to the Jews? No, for not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew! 7 Just the fact that they are descendants of Abraham doesn't make them truly Abraham's children. For the Scriptures say, "Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted," though Abraham had other children, too. 8 This means that Abraham's physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. It is the children of the promise who are considered to be Abraham's children. 9 For God had promised, "Next year I will return, and Sarah will have a son."

    10 This son was our ancestor Isaac. When he grew up, he married Rebekah, who gave birth to twins. 11 But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message proves that God chooses according to his own plan, 12 not according to our good or bad works.) She was told, "The descendants of your older son will serve the descendants of your younger son." 13 In the words of the Scriptures, "I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau."

    14 What can we say? Was God being unfair? Of course not! 15 For God said to Moses,

    "I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
    and I will show compassion to anyone I choose."
    16 So receiving God's promise is not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses.

    17 For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, "I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you, and so that my fame might spread throughout the earth." 18 So you see, God shows mercy to some just because he wants to, and he chooses to make some people refuse to listen.

    19 Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not listening? Haven't they simply done what he made them do?"

    20 No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to criticize God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who made it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? 22 God has every right to exercise his judgment and his power, but he also has the right to be very patient with those who are the objects of his judgment and are fit only for destruction. 23 He also has the right to pour out the riches of his glory upon those he prepared to be the objects of his mercy-- 24 even upon us, whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.

    25 Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea,

    "Those who were not my people,
    I will now call my people.
    And I will love those
    whom I did not love before."
    26 And,

    "Once they were told,
    `You are not my people.'
    But now he will say,
    `You are children of the living God.' "
    27 Concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out,

    "Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand on the seashore,
    only a small number will be saved.
    28
    For the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth
    quickly and with finality."
    29 And Isaiah said in another place,

    "If the Lord Almighty
    had not spared a few of us,
    we would have been wiped out
    as completely as Sodom and Gomorrah."

    Israel's Unbelief

    30 Well then, what shall we say about these things? Just this: The Gentiles have been made right with God by faith, even though they were not seeking him. 31 But the Jews, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded. 32 Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law and being good instead of by depending on faith. They stumbled over the great rock in their path. 33 God warned them of this in the Scriptures when he said,

    "I am placing a stone in Jerusalem that causes people to stumble,
    and a rock that makes them fall.
    But anyone who believes in him
    will not be disappointed."


    Chapter 10

    1 Dear brothers and sisters, the longing of my heart and my prayer to God is that the Jewish people might be saved. 2 I know what enthusiasm they have for God, but it is misdirected zeal. 3 For they don't understand God's way of making people right with himself. Instead, they are clinging to their own way of getting right with God by trying to keep the law. They won't go along with God's way. 4 For Christ has accomplished the whole purpose of the law. All who believe in him are made right with God.


    Salvation Is for Everyone

    5 For Moses wrote that the law's way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands. 6 But the way of getting right with God through faith says, "You don't need to go to heaven" (to find Christ and bring him down to help you). 7 And it says, "You don't need to go to the place of the dead" (to bring Christ back to life again). 8 Salvation that comes from trusting Christ--which is the message we preach--is already within easy reach. In fact, the Scriptures say, "The message is close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart."

    9 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who believes in him will not be disappointed." 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They all have the same Lord, who generously gives his riches to all who ask for them. 13 For "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

    14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them? 15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is what the Scriptures mean when they say, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

    16 But not everyone welcomes the Good News, for Isaiah the prophet said, "Lord, who has believed our message?" 17 Yet faith comes from listening to this message of good news--the Good News about Christ.

    18 But what about the Jews? Have they actually heard the message? Yes, they have:

    "The message of God's creation has gone out to everyone,
    and its words to all the world."

    19 But did the people of Israel really understand? Yes, they did, for even in the time of Moses, God had said,

    "I will rouse your jealousy by blessing other nations.
    I will make you angry by blessing the foolish Gentiles."

    20 And later Isaiah spoke boldly for God:

    "I was found by people
    who were not looking for me.
    I showed myself to those
    who were not asking for me."

    21 But regarding Israel, God said,

    "All day long I opened my arms to them,
    but they kept disobeying me and arguing with me."


    Chapter 11

    Gods Mercy on Israel

    1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people, the Jews? Of course not! Remember that I myself am a Jew, a descendant of Abraham and a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

    2 No, God has not rejected his own people, whom he chose from the very beginning. Do you remember what the Scriptures say about this? Elijah the prophet complained to God about the people of Israel and said, 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. I alone am left, and now they are trying to kill me, too."

    4 And do you remember God's reply? He said, "You are not the only one left. I have seven thousand others who have never bowed down to Baal!"

    5 It is the same today, for not all the Jews have turned away from God. A few are being saved as a result of God's kindness in choosing them. 6 And if they are saved by God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's wonderful kindness would not be what it really is--free and undeserved.

    7 So this is the situation: Most of the Jews have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the rest were made unresponsive. 8 As the Scriptures say,

    "God has put them into a deep sleep.
    To this very day he has shut their eyes so they do not see,
    and closed their ears so they do not hear."
    9 David spoke of this same thing when he said,

    "Let their bountiful table become a snare,
    a trap that makes them think all is well.
    Let their blessings cause them to stumble.
    10
    Let their eyes go blind so they cannot see,
    and let their backs grow weaker and weaker."
    11 Did God's people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! His purpose was to make his salvation available to the Gentiles, and then the Jews would be jealous and want it for themselves. 12 Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the Jews turned down God's offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when the Jews finally accept it.

    13 I am saying all of this especially for you Gentiles. God has appointed me as the apostle to the Gentiles. I lay great stress on this, 14 for I want to find a way to make the Jews want what you Gentiles have, and in that way I might save some of them. 15 For since the Jews' rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, how much more wonderful their acceptance will be. It will be life for those who were dead! 16 And since Abraham and the other patriarchs were holy, their children will also be holy. For if the roots of the tree are holy, the branches will be, too.

    17 But some of these branches from Abraham's tree, some of the Jews, have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, were grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in God's rich nourishment of his special olive tree. 18 But you must be careful not to brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. Remember, you are just a branch, not the root.

    19 "Well," you may say, "those branches were broken off to make room for me." 20 Yes, but remember--those branches, the Jews, were broken off because they didn't believe God, and you are there because you do believe. Don't think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. 21 For if God did not spare the branches he put there in the first place, he won't spare you either.

    22 Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe to those who disobeyed, but kind to you as you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. 23 And if the Jews turn from their unbelief, God will graft them back into the tree again. He has the power to do it.

    24 For if God was willing to take you who were, by nature, branches from a wild olive tree and graft you into his own good tree--a very unusual thing to do--he will be far more eager to graft the Jews back into the tree where they belong.


    Gods Mercy Is for Everyone

    25 I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud and start bragging. Some of the Jews have hard hearts, but http://this will last only until the...omes to Christ. 26 And after that: all Israel will be saved. Do you remember what the prophets said about this?

    "A Deliverer will come from Jerusalem,
    and he will turn Israel from all ungodliness.
    27
    And then I will keep my covenant with them
    and take away their sins."

    28 Many of the Jews are now enemies of the Good News. But this has been to your benefit, for God has given his gifts to you Gentiles. Yet the Jews are still his chosen people because of his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 29 For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn. 30 Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the Jews refused his mercy, God was merciful to you instead. 31 And now, in the same way, the Jews are the rebels, and God's mercy has come to you. But someday they, too, will share in God's mercy. 32 For God has imprisoned all people in their own disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

    33 Oh, what a wonderful God we have! How great are his riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his methods! 34 For who can know what the Lord is thinking? Who knows enough to be his counselor? 35 And who could ever give him so much that he would have to pay it back? 36 For everything comes from him; everything exists by his power and is intended for his glory. To him be glory evermore. Amen.
    So according to the BIBLE most Jews are now enemies of the Good News, but only http://until the complete number of ...omes to Christ, and after that God Himself will do a MIRACLE and turn the hearts of many of them to JESUS .

    This means that Israel is not sinless in its treatment to Palestinians, or in many other things. They are probably doing many injustices towards many minorities, including Muslims and Christians. However, if we were to compare the attrocities that Israelies commit against Palestinians and others to the attrocities committed by Muslims against Christians in Indonesia, Afghanistans, Pakistan, Sudan, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Turkey, and many other Muslim countries, we would see that the attrocities committed by the Israelies are tiny compared to the others.

    Lets take the case here, where I live in: for example, Muslim terrorists killed here in the USA 3,000 INNOCENT CIVILIANS just in one day a year ago in the NAME OF THEIR RELIGION, and another two Muslim terrorist snipers killed 13 innocent persons just 6 weeks ago, while only three Muslim persons were killed here in the USA because of religion in the entire year since September 11.

    As you can see, yes the "
    Christian" USA has a straw in its eye (we are sinners too you know)[b], but the Muslim world has a GIANT log of wood in its eye which it deliberately overlooks. And if we were to compare the INNOCENT CIVILIAN kill ratio in Israel between Israeli Civilians and Palestinian Civilians, we see that the INNOCENT Israeli Civilians killed deliberately by Muslim terrorists GREATLY OUTNUMBER the Palestinian INNOCENT Civilians killed by the IDF.

    Do I have to go on?

    Anyway, your Muslim people get so angry at such a tiny Nation like Israel. Israel is the size of New Jersey, a tiny little Nation. And if you ever read the BIBLE, you can see that GOD gave Israel only a certain portion of the planet, and not as large as the world now dominated by Islam by any means. What most Muslims do not want to address is that the world of Islam is filled by hundreds of times more injustices by the Muslims toward uslims themselves than by Israel towards them, or even of injustices by Christians towards them. For example, Saddam Hussein has killed THOUSANDS of Muslim Kurds with nerve gas; and in war between his country and Iran more than 1 million Muslims died. The USA could have easily ended the life of Osama Bin Ladyn by dropping a couple of Hydrogen bombs, but our country did not do that. Why? Because INNOCENT Afghan civilians do not deserve to die with the bastard Osama. Hey, Putin is itching to drop an H-Bomb on the Chechens and he hasn't, and I believe it is partly because he has seen that the USA does not.

    I could go, on and on, but in the ultimate analysis, the issue is that you are so fanatical about your religion dear Voice that no amount of FACTS will make you think rationally, nor to admit to the bad things going on within your religion. That is sad.
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