Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

are you puerto ricans proud of your spanish heritage?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • are you puerto ricans proud of your spanish heritage?

    what do you think about mexicans?
    are you specifically 100% spanish descendent? or do you have black in you or something?

  • #2
    I don't think there are much people in Puerto Rico with 100% Spanish "blood" in them, except for the very rich and even they have some other European "blood." Most Puerto Ricans are mixed, mostly with European (Of that, mostly Spaniard, with some French, Dutch, French and English.) and African "blood." There's also a tiny percentage of indiginous "blood" (The Taíno natives or that with a mix of Carib indian. Some even call the Taíno Arawak Indians.) in us, some more than others. I, myself, am proud of the culture that sprang up from the mix of those cultures. I am neither European, African or Taíno indian. I'm Puerto Rican, a mix of all of that.

    My thoughts of Mexicans...I proudly call some my friends. They have a beautiful culture and are beautiful people.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't have much to add beyond what Ecuajey said regarding Puerto Ricans.

      I have been to Mexico at least 6 times and once spent a month in Mexico City. I love the people and the country of Mexico. My feeling when I was in Mexico was that Mexicans held Puerto Ricans in high esteem. I was particularly impressed by their memory of our musician and composer Rafael Hernández, who they referred to as "El Jibarito." He spent a few years of his life in Mexico.

      However, I have found that the perspective of some Mexican-Americans about Puerto Ricans is a bit different. To my surprise over the years I have experienced quite a bit of recentment and some ill-feeling. I do have Mexican-American friends who are not like this. Nevertheless, all you have to do is visit a Mexican-American Forum, not unlike this one, and do a search for "Puerto Rican." You might be surprised by the content of some of the threads.

      José

      PS Why don't you tell us about yourself? Are you Mexican or Mexican-American? What do you think of Puerto Ricans?

      Comment


      • #4
        I think Mexicans are fine people.

        I have many dear friends who are Mexican and love them to death. In general, they're really nice people who are family oriented, just like our culture as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Realities.

          I think all Latin Americans fight each other and many do not. Is like in a family you like the sister but you really do not like that cousin. The realities of a big family.

          Comment


          • #6
            Are Puerto Ricans proud of their Spanish Heritage

            I have family members and friends who are Mexican. And like some of the other people have stated have had positive experiences with a lot of them, however like the last person stated I have also noticed in difference in some of them towards Puerto Ricans. It saddens me because we are all part of a big beautiful family called LATINOS,Hispanos,or what ever we're calling ourselves these days! I think the beauty if our "slight" differences is our languages(dialicts),and pride of culture! This is why it hurts me when I have had my spanish attacked by some Mexicanos. How I'm not pronouncing my r's, and not to use l's in place of r's and so on. I would never do that to someone. It had gotten to the point where I had to call this indivudal out and say to him that if his spanish was so "perfect" he should hang out in Spain! Only then would he realize "his" spanish was not perfect! Que pena!

            Comment


            • #7
              La velda es que no entiendo por que nos critican. Caramba, polque sera? Estoy cansao, me voy pal cualto a dolmil.

              BTW, Spaniards also say Cansao instead of cansado. Pero, quien sabe, a lo mejol estoy equivocao (this is also common in Spain). However, they never say mejol.

              Maybe we should be a little bit more careful with our language. Most other Latin Americans seem to do a better job than we do.


              Los recuerdos suelen
              Contarte mentiras



              Stanley

              Comment


              • #8
                Diversity is a Puerto Rican reality!

                [QUOTE]Originally posted by Stanley
                [B]La velda es que no entiendo por que nos critican. Caramba, polque sera? Estoy cansao, me voy pal cualto a dolmil.

                BTW, Spaniards also say Cansao instead of cansado. Pero, quien sabe, a lo mejol estoy equivocao (this is also common in Spain). However, they never say mejol.
                _______________________________________________________________


                Dear Stanley: You are getting into deep waters here. Spanish has many dialectical variations in Spain, in Latin America and other places (the USA, Las Filipinas, etc.). In and out of Spain one can argue till the end of time. However being a Puerto Rican has another set of rules for the "In" crowd which is different for the "Out" crowd. (As per social anthropological rules of engagement).

                Now, let us make this simple for those that are not from "la losa" the ones that put down us Jibar@s for BEING Boricuas de la Montaña.

                First some categories, since Stanley needs categories:

                Formal Culture (check it out, it is posted here somewhere)

                I shall just say that formal culture is everything you can put in a "museo de cultura boricua"

                You can say "they lived in cute little buildings and you can visit old San Juan, they sure are pretty!"

                Or you can recall our ancient past and talk about the Tainos and the Batey.

                You can listen to our "Jibaro Music" or our African heritage music "Bomba y Plena"

                You can eat traditional foods or our modern "gringo foods" that is "Verduras vs Roast Turkey for Thanksgiving"

                so you have to know what you are talking about.
                How can you tell the difference?

                Read the content of the quotes that go with the post and you can follow the logic of the arguments.

                If I am a Jibara and I am, then if I like a poem, that can be in any language, I can read it, translate it to Spanish and I can express my Jibara feelings with the poem, although it may come from anybody, anywhere in the world. Being Puerto Rican is not a stereotype however many people who are limited in their perception of reality of the Puerto Rican people will express their biases and you can see what they are.

                To express my identity I can chose a poem such as:

                III. Ao entardecer, debrucado pela janela

                Ao entardecer, debrucado pela janela,
                E sabendo de soslaio que há campos em frente.
                Leio até me arderem os olhos
                O livro de Cesário Verde.

                Que pena que tenho dele! Ele era um camponés
                Que andava preso em liberdade pela cidade.
                Mas o modo como olhava para as casas,
                E a maneira como dva pelas coisas,
                E o de quem olha para árvores,
                E de quem dosce os olhos pela estrada por onde vai andando
                E anda a reparar nas flores que há pelos campos...

                Por isso ele tinha aquela grande tristeza
                Que ele nuca disse em que tinha,
                Mas andava na cidade como quem ando no campo
                E triste como esmagar flores em livros
                E por plantas em jarros...

                Now, let us say, I am a Jibara and I want to make
                a "Codeswitching version" of this poem. Is there such a thing as Codeswitching poetry? Sure there is. Here is how it would go:

                III. Leaning over the flowerbed al Atardecer

                Leaning over the flowerbed al Atardecer
                Y sabiendo, sidelong, que hay campos de frente.
                Leo hasta que me arden los ojos,
                el libro de Cesario Verde.

                Que pena la que tengo por él! He was a man del Campo
                Que andava like a prisoner-at-large por la ciudad.
                Pero el modo como miraba las casas,
                Y el modo in which he noticed the streets,
                And his way of taking things in,
                Es de alguien que mira los árboles,
                Es de quien baja los ojos para fijarse en la vereda donde va andando,
                Y anda fijandose en las flores that grow in the fields...

                Por eso él tiene aquella grande tristeza
                Que él nunca dice que tiene,
                Mas anda en la ciudad como quien anda por el campo
                And sad as crushing flowers in a book
                Y poniendo plantas en los jarros...

                ____________________________________________________________

                Code switching is a third language of the Puerto Ricans in the USA and it requires command of the grammar of at least two languages. In this case it is command of three languages, the grammar of Spanish, Portuguese and English. But the point here is that any Puerto Rican can do English, Spanish and any other language. In my case it is just a case of practice, I have had to translate and have interpreted for many people from Portuguese to English.

                Yautia



                Comment


                • #9
                  Hermanos Latinos


                  Most mexicans don't have black in them but rather are a mixture of spainish and native american. I'm black and Puerto Rican and having grown up in San Diego I have been subject to critisim on both sides. Don't get me wrong, I love Mexicans as I love all latinos. Its just kinda sad when certain groups don't realize that we are all latinos no matter the color of our skin or which country we are from. Every country in latin america faced the same trials of slavery, oppresion, and anything else you can think of that went on when latin america was becoming latin america. I take great pride in the fact that mi familia was able to overcome that and I call all latinos my brothers and sisters.

                  Que viva Puerto Rico.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yautîa:

                    Great post. I hope you are still not upset at me because I reminded you of your "Mancha de Platano". Another Puertorican tradition is to "pegar vellones".

                    You are right, we speak a dialect we call Spanish. In the Canary Islands they have their own dialects of both Spanish and Catalan. The real Spanish language is called Castellano.

                    We have a great tendency to say "L" instead of "R". When I first came to the states and joined a Latin American social club and other Latins "me pegaron vellones" for my pronunciation of polqué instead of porqué. Since then I have made an effort to pronounce my Rs.

                    I don't know what PR culture is . I would say is a combination of European, American, and African. There is very little Taino culture; we have some Indian words for some towns and we remember Agueybanå and other things.

                    In my case I grew up listening to Cortijo y su combo in the late 50s, El Gran Combo, the music of Hernandez and Flores, aguinaldos, boleros, salsa, decimas, seis, ect. But I also had a hefty dose of classical music and danzas as my dad was an aficionado. Of course many consider the Casals festival a Puerto Rican tradition. In the 60s as a teen I was a roquero and had a hefty dose of Mop top English music. I grew up bilingual and as you said ate both native foods and turkey for thanksgiving. My dad also spoke French, but I was never able to learn it.

                    So now you know why I am so ambivalent.

                    Anyway here is the adivinanza:

                    Oro no es
                    Plata no es

                    What is it?

                    You should know this one!


                    Los recuerdos suelen
                    Contarte mentiras



                    Stanley

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Stanley
                      [B]Yautîa:

                      Great post. I hope you are still not upset at me because I reminded you of your "Mancha de Platano". Another Puertorican tradition is to "pegar vellones"_____________________________________________________
                      ______________________________________________________________

                      Dear Stanley: You never
                      get it, do you?
                      I have never been "upset because I have my "Mancha de Platano, on the contrary, soy Jibara, and that is my badge of identity, I am also known as "La Negra" that is a way of making sure we do not forget that "el que no tiene ninga tiene mandinga" (or so it goes). It really means that I carry with great pride my being a "Negra" (The men, they call me Negra because they love me, and in turn I teach them to be strong)...from "el campo". There has always been Negras in my Jibara family, there is a Negro and a Negra in every generation of Jibaras from my campo.

                      You are right, we speak a dialect we call Spanish. In the Canary Islands they have their own dialects of both Spanish and Catalan. The real Spanish language is called Castellano.
                      _____________________________________________________________

                      All SPANISH IS CASTELLANO;THE MEXICAN VERSION, the Cuban version, the Puerto Rican version the Salvadoran version. All equally valid. What varies are the colloquialisms, and registers and level of formal education and articulation level of the speaker. Professional linguists (which Suki's father was one) do not say one is 'real' and the other is fake. That is for people who don't study language patterns or linguistics in depth. Catalan and GALLEGO, and mosarabe etc. are different languages. Castellano=espanol is spoken throughout Latin America. To say some are real and others are not is not only not scientific but is also erroneous.

                      You are probably concerned about 'standard' versions of Spanish. But even if you think one is more 'standard' than another, articulate and eloquent speakers of Spanish exist in every Latin American country. Just like there are "standard" English speakers in the USA who speak non-standard English and are incredibly articulate and eloquent in their non-standard version of English. For example, Martin Luther King Jr., he spoke non-standard African-American English. And he spoke it with tremendous eloquence and articulation, because he spoke a non-standard version did that make his English usage unacceptable or incorrect? You can answer that. According to professional linguists his version is as good as Walter Cronkite's version of English.

                      We have a great tendency to say "L" instead of "R". When I first came to the states and joined a Latin American social club and other Latins "me pegaron vellones" for my pronunciation of polqué instead of porqué. Since then I have made an effort to pronounce my Rs.

                      There is no purist version. We can argue that the Argentinean version of lunfardo etc, is so against the 'standard' rules or that Spanish from Chile is so full of Chilenismos, or Mexican Spanish so peppered with nahuatl aztecan lexicon, etc. The bottom line is each group has their way, and to place value judgements on which version is appropriate and which is 'inferior' is quite a non-issue. The truth is people should work on articulation, eloquence, enriching their vocabulary and being expressive. The details such as style, accent and regional color and flavor is just part and parcel of the natural evolution and variation present in linguistic development.
                      ______________________________________________________

                      I don't know what PR culture is . I would say is a combination of European, American, and African. There is very little Taino culture; we have some Indian words for some towns and we remember Agueybanå and other things.
                      ________________________________________________________

                      Puerto Rico is a Caribbean culture and has a mixture of influences. All three: African, Spanish and Taino are the three main ones. But we also have many other influences as well in lesser quantities. "American" culture if you think fast food and consumeristic lifestyle, (la definicion de la estetica) is all over the place. BUT does that define deep culture or just economics and political circumstances? (Situational Culture), But then Language and Communication is another category of culture: According to linguists language is a big definer of culture. (Some claim non-verbal communication including the supra-segmentals such as pitch, stress and intonation constitute 66% of all language communication), If we take that to heart Puerto Ricans do not share USA culture as much as other people...mainly such Anglo phones as Canadian English (just speakers, or the oral tradition, without counting reading and writing otherwise known as literacy). That is why Puerto Rico is categorized in this internet site with Latin America and not Europe or the USA. It is obvious where our roots lie and our language says who we are. Latin Americans not Gringos. No matter how many Wal-Marts open and take over Amigos in Puerto Rico. They have wal-marts in Mexico too, and that does not define who the Mexican people are on a deep cultural level, at the Situational level, such as Los Angeles, At the language and communication level such as "Code Switching, which is considered a dialect of Spanish and not of English. Same for the Boricuas, soy Boricua aunque naciera en la luna, Stan!
                      _______________________________________________________________

                      PR
                      In my case I grew up listening to Cortijo y su combo in the late 50s, El Gran Combo, the music of Hernandez and Flores, aguinaldos, boleros, salsa, decimas, seis, ect. But I also had a hefty dose of classical music and danzas as my dad was an aficionado. Of course many consider the Casals festival a Puerto Rican tradition. In the 60s as a teen I was a roquero and had a hefty dose of Mop top English music. I grew up bilingual and as you said ate both native foods and turkey for thanksgiving. My dad also spoke French, but I was never able to learn it.
                      ___________________________________________________________

                      Stan, I care very much for Latino language, culture, history, music and literature. But I don't care for Salsa, much less for rock, rap music and all those things that do not have meaning for me. I love romantic music and Pan Latino music including Andean music and many traditional and folkloric music. I love "Danza para mi pueblo" by Danny Rivera, I like old boleros. I have a big collection of "La Nueva Cancion" Including such classics as Silvio Rodriguez's Unicornio, I listen to "El Topo" and agree with him when he says:

                      Ir del poema a la cancion
                      es perderse en el laberinto de la maleza
                      y llegar al claro del bosque;
                      es encontrar el atrecho
                      que llega a la casa de todos.
                      Hay un viento del pueblo
                      en la boca del hombre
                      que recoge el torbellino de las hojas
                      y las avienta como semillas en el sendero.
                      Hay una flor roja golpeando el cielo amordazado
                      de una isla.

                      (Antonio Caban Vale, Disco libre DL-0012)

                      I love Facundo Cabral, Joan Manuel Serrat, La Voz de Mercedes Sosa, me encanta Amaury Perez, en lo literario-como lector furibundo de la poesia mas elevada de nuestra lengua que es-Amaury es un poeta laborioso que pulsa la cuerda lirica con logors formales, palpables en esas dos bellas composciones suyas: "Vuela, Pena" y "Acuerdate de abril" dos mis canciones favoritas de Amaury. Si, me gustan los Cubanos, los de Cuba, me gusta Pablo Milanes, "La Vida No Vale Nada" Dice en una de sus portadas Antonio Gomez:

                      "Es evidente que la nueva sociedad crea nuevas realidades, y que una cancion con los pies en la tierra ha de reflejar esta neuva realidad si quiere ser autentica, si no quiere perderse en los paraisos reaccionarios de los diletantes.
                      ....son los temas que se repiten en estas canciones, son la cronica diaria, vivida, cotidiana, de un tiempo, un pais, de una historia pasada, de una lucha presente, de una esperanza futura, que nutre las canciones de la "Nueva Trova Cubana." (y que me dan esperanza para un Puerto Rico libre). This my friend, is that which is really quite traditional for a Jibara, a Latina, not a Celia Cruz, alguien que no ha podido aprender a tolerar la diversidad de la musica nuestra, a symbol for you and your Cuban friends and relatives, but not for me, in my humble opinion: I am what I do, I do what I know, an advocate for human and civil rights. A tradition among the Jibaros of my campo. As to your comment:

                      "So now you know why I am so ambivalent." No, I do not know why you are so ambivalent.

                      I am not ambivalent about anything, I am a jibara, pipiola, socialista, boricua, mujer, Latino-Americana, amante de todo lo que es ser Boricua, Jibara y parte de la raza humana.

                      And as to your adivinanza:

                      Oro no es
                      Plata no es

                      What is it?

                      You should know this one!

                      --------------------

                      So what if it is a platano? What is your point? Why the trivia? Are you fixed on Freud and his sexual symbols? Because definitely you are not interested in eating vianda con bacalao at your private golf club. What is a platano to you besides a freudian symbol? Jibaro you are not so it goes beyond an oral fixation (for Jibaro food), but you may have (assuming you go for Freud's paradigm) a Don Juan Complex; is that it? (judging from your insistance on rubias de la loza and your concern for all those novias bringing flowers...etc.

                      La Yautia
                      PAX PARA VIEQUES
                      Venceremos

                      [Edited by yautiawoman2 on 11th February 2003 at 04:31]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yautia:

                        Once again a great post! It was very informative and I agree with most of what you said.

                        It is quite powerful to use those language variations you describe. It would be boring if everybody in Latin America spoke the same kind of Spanish. I agree that MLK was a great orator and was able to use the lingo of his culture quite well and no one can deny there is something special about it. I also get a kick when I hear a Mexican, Cuban, or an Argentinian use their own variations of the language. As Puerto Ricans we also have great sayings and variations which drive the point home and I embrace this language growth as a wonderful thing. In fact that is how languages were created.

                        This may be unfortunate for you, but since the invasion of the Americans (the ones that you live with in the USA) language has acquired an "anglo angle". We like to say safacon to name a thrash bin (originally safety can). Of course, in my day a blender was called "The Osterizer" and your beloved Cubans (not the gusanos course) called the refrigerator "El Frigidaire". Some Puertoricans call each other as: "Que pasa brodel" (brodel = brother). Of course as a kid I always described a truck as "El Tro" and my father always said Camion; the Mexicans say Troca.

                        Do not worry to much about the Americanization of the culture. This is also prevalent all over the world and you will find kids with Michel Jordan #23 jerseys all over the world including China and Africa.

                        I am with you regarding salsa. I stop listening a long time ago and mainly remeber the original ones such as Cortijo, El Gran Combo, and the early Fania folks. Then I got hit by rock and roll in high school and by the likes of Serrat and Sylvio in the UPR.

                        But, back to the culture---------- within any culture you tend to find subcultures. Some are more desirable than others and some are clearly related to social status. However, there are some things that are clearly universal and that is the Mancha de platano. Mine is pretty hard to see whereas yours is more obvious, but we both have it.

                        One more thing about the language: It is nice to use those authentic idiomatic expressions that only you and I know. It is acceptable to vary the pronunciation as other LAtins do, but in every culture there is an uneducated fringe who will thrash the language beyond recognition and to the point where it may sound vulgar and IMO unacceptable. This generally precludes these folks from having any kind of achievement in our society. For example in some subcultures folks use the F word in every single sentence. That is not nice, at some point one must realize that we have gone beyond the point of no return.


                        I have another adivinanza:

                        Which is the shortest male name in the world?

                        I will give you a hint: It is not Casimiro; it is not Nicasio. There is one male name much shorter-------- guess?



                        Los recuerdos suelen
                        Contarte mentiras



                        Stanley

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          La Academia Real Española hizo un estudio en la decada del 80 para averiguar cuales paises latino-americanos mantienen un español cercano al español de hace 400 años.

                          De todos los paises, Puerto Rico mantiene un 85% del lenguage original, y Panama es el ultimo con un 25%.

                          En cuanto al tema de esta discusion. Yo estoy orgulloso de mi herencia española.

                          Mi familia se mudo a Puerto Rico en los 1700 desde la Provincia de Toledo en España. Anteriormente se habian mudado de el Norte de Italia en los 1500, huyendo de la Plaga que mato un 50% de los Europeos en tres siglos (The Black Death).

                          Mi familia se puede trazar hasta el siglo 1200.

                          Stanley? You look like J. Garcia from Musicology.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Si tengo algunas errores gramáticas en mi mensaje, por favor, corríjame.

                            Originally posted by Nacionalista
                            Mi familia se puede trazar hasta el siglo 1200.
                            LOL! ¿Cómo puedes saber la historia de su familia tan lejos en tiempo? Yo he dado cuenta que hay mucha gente aquí que sabe su historia de familia hasta su ocupación en españa y otras partes de europa de los años de 17, 16, hasta los 1500's y más. Sólo sé de la historia de mi familia hasta el temprano de los 1800's, jaja.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have spent half my life away from PR, speaking with Spanish speakers who are from other countries such as Venezuela, Mexico, Argentina, etc.. I regularly watch US Spanish Network TV with their "neutral" accent, especially the news. As my English has gotten better, I have lost some of that Caguas (my hometown in PR) draw along the way. I don't usually say "Caguah" anymore. I try to say "Caguas". I don't say "vamoh" anymore. I try to say "vamos".

                              The thing I find interesting is when people I meet here in the states tell me "You do not sound Puerto Rican." I even had a Colombian woman tell me once "You have such a beautiful accent. Where are you from?"

                              The thing that pains me sometimes is when I go to PR and people tell me "You don't sound Puerto Rican. Where are you from?."

                              I suppose language can sometimes be so much more than pronunciation and missing endings.

                              José

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X