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are you puerto ricans proud of your spanish heritage?

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  • replied
    Too bad about Vieques. However, I suspect that in the near future (now that the Navy is gone) the population will continue to dwindle and it may end up like Culebra. I hope that those with cancer can get some sort of compensation------------------- That is terrible.

    I have a few questions for you Yautia:

    Where would PR be if we had remained a Spanish colony? Any ideas? Thise guys tend to be democrat socialists! Do you think we would be a Republic?

    What should be the number one export of PR when the Republic comes?

    Should we exploit tuorism? Built more golf courses along our beaches?

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ecuajey
    [B]
    Originally posted by spade
    the question is are puerto ricans pround of their african hertiage
    The Problem is not very many people take the time out to understand our history, our culture and our traditions, much less the question of race and ethnicity in Puerto Rico.

    If you knew what the struggle of Vieques is all aobut, you
    would know it is all about fighting for the preservation of our African Heritage not just for Puerto Rico but for all people
    "of color" the problem is this is a socially constructed concept which has no basis outside of the cultural and social context.

    Here is what happened before the Black Fisherman, Carlos Zeonon, stoped the Navy Dead on their Tracks, and forced\them, with the help of all Puerto Ricans and some Yankee, other United Statians and other International Groups to say they will leave by next May, 2003.

    First, many people, outside of Vieques asked a very basic question:

    1. Why is the US Navy in Vieques, Puerto Rico?
    The Answer, my dear, is history:

    Puerto Rico: From Spanish Colony to American Military Bastion

    After 400 years of Spanish colonial rule, Puerto Rico became a possession of the United States as a direct result of the Spanish-American War of 1898. Right after the invasion the US established a military government, which lasted up to 1900; thereafter, the Foraker Act of 1900 authorized the President of the United States to appoint a civilian governor. In 1917 the Jones Act granted US citizenship to all island residents. In 1948 Puerto Ricans were allowed to elect their own home-grown governor for the very first time. Today, after 101 years of direct economic, political and military rule, Puerto Rico continues to be a US colony. Given its geographical position, Puerto Rico has always played a key strategic military role for the United States.
    Expropriation of Land for Regional Military Purposes

    In 1938 the US Navy began using the island-municipality of Vieques, right off the eastern coast of Puerto Rico, for military practices. In 1941, during the height of WW II, the Navy initiated a campaign of forced expropriation of territory, which ultimately ended in their possession of over two thirds of the island?s most arable land, thereby displacing thousands of families and seriously jeopardizing their basic means of subsistence. The Navy arbitrarily set the price for the expropriated land giving the island residents very little say, if any, in the matter. Resistance became an exercise in futility, for the Navy issued the following ultimatum: Either you accept the price set by the Navy or prepare to be evicted, by force, if necessary, within 24 hours. The net effect of these policies was the clustering of the entire civilian population of Vieques into a small strip of land right in the middle of the island. Thus the US Navy took control of over 75% of this tiny island.



    2. Legacy of the US Navy in Vieques:
    Economic Stagnation

    Vieques has a population of approximately 9,400 inhabitants. It has an unemployment rate of almost fifty percent (50%) by most conservative estimates. General Electric, which is one of the few large companies in Vieques, will end its operations this summer. Fishing is the only industry in the island of Vieques with any truly viable economic significance. This is obviously due to the Navy?s expropriation of the most fertile lands in the island that formerly sustained a respectable agricultural activity. Carlos Zenón, the former President of the Fishermen Association, said that when the US Navy ships enter the one-hundred-foot deep waters where the fishermen have their traps, ?the ships? propellers destroy the buoys that indicate where the traps are.? When that happens it is hard for them to find the nets. As a result, the nets stay at the bottom of the sea for eight or twelve months, attracting many fish that ultimately die in the traps. The US Department of Agriculture conducted a study of these traps and found that a single net collects from 4,500 to 5,000 pounds of fish in ten months, which poses a severe environmental threat to the fragile marine ecosystem in that region. In 1977, for example, the US Navy destroyed 131 traps.

    Ecological Damage

    The immediate effects of the bombings in Vieques are the destruction of delicate ecosystems in the island, which supports hundreds of species of plants and animals that are killed instantly upon the direct impact of the projectiles during military target practices. Furthermore, these bombings and military maneuvers lead to serious contamination of the environment due to toxic residues. In an article published in 1988, engineer and environmental consultant Rafael Cruz-Pérez identified three ways in which the military's bombings pollutes the environment in Vieques: (1) Chemicals in the Missiles? explosive payloads, (2) Dust and rock particles released into the air as a result of the impact and/or explosion of missiles, and (3) Metallic residues left by missiles after they detonate, and the junk and scrap heap they use for target practice. "According to information provided by the Navy, this material is never removed?Under the effects of additional explosions and sea breezes, metals are oxidized or decomposed, turning in accelerated fashion into leachates that pollute the environment", said Cruz-Pérez in his article. He also referred to a scientific study by the Navy, which says that the sources of drinking water in Vieques' Isabel Segunda village and Barrio Esperanza are polluted with toxic chemicals, like TNT, tetryl and RDX. Cruz-Pérez commented that "the study doesn't explain how these substances got to the water sources, located more than fourteen kilometers away from the shooting area". In the 70's, the US Environmental Protection Agency sampled Vieques' air and soil. After studying the samples, the EPA determined that the air has unhealthy levels of particulate matter and the ground has iron levels above normal.
    High Levels of Cancer & Health Problems

    The people of Vieques suffer from high levels of cancer and other serious health problems. Studies carried out by the Puerto Rico Department of Health have shown that from 1985 to 1989 the rate of cancer in Vieques rose to 26 percent above the rest of PR. Rafael Rivera-Castaño, a retired professor from the University of Puerto Rico's Medical Sciences Campus, has documented an increase in extremely rare diseases, like, for example, Scleroderma, lupus, thyroid deficiencies, and not-so-rare ones, like asthma, which is significantly affecting Vieques? children. "How can the children of Vieques get asthma if this is such a small island? The winds that blow in from the ocean are rich in iodine, which prevents asthma. The only possible cause is air pollution. We don't have factories here, the only source of air pollution here is the Navy," he has stated.



    3. Struggle and Resistance
    The Struggle between David and Goliath

    Vieques? fishermen are extremely courageous. They have confronted the warships at sea several times. In February of 1978, US admiral Robert Fanagan told the fisherman that they would not be allowed to fish during 3 weeks. All NATO countries had planned an intensive military maneuver along all of Vieques? coastsline. Carlo Zenón informed him that they would protest. ?Imagine me, a Puerto Rican fisherman, telling a US Navy admiral that we?re going to cause problems for them? he said. On February 6, 1978, fed-up with the Navy?s arrogance, the fishermen of Vieques took a desperate gamble. Forty fishing boats ?invaded? waters where target practice with live ammunition were about to begin. They were carrying out a struggle with the sling shot of David against the Goliath of NATO. They were successful detaining the maneuvers and awakening the support of the entire Puerto Rican nation. This activism at sea has won important victories for the people of Vieques during their struggle against the US Navy.

    Encampments of Civil Disobedience

    After David Sanes Rodríguez?s death on April 19th, 1999, a group of civilians gathered in the area of the ?accident? to protest the bombardments. This show of outrage and civil disobedience was a frontal challenge to the US Navy?s ill-gotten authority. On April 21st a group of 15 boats gathered at the place of the bombings, placed a large cross and named the area Mount David-in memory of Mr. Sanes. Mount David is a very dangerous place peppered with live ammunition on the ground. In spite of the this great dangers many people organized protests behind the gates of the Navy?s restricted areas. All these protests have successfully detained the bombings since Sanes? death. "I know that there is a great danger" said Pablo Connelly, one of the civilians that protested at Mount David. He adds: "I know that the risks are great, but all the risks are worth it. I do this for my children and for the children of all Viequenses and I know that during the time that I remain here there is not going to fall a single bomb in Vieques.?

    In May 8, the Puerto Rican Independence Party (PIP) established a second campsite in Playa Carrucho. The president of the party, Senator Ruben Berrios, vowed to stay in the campsite until either the Navy gets out or he is arrested. A scenario of confrontation was set. Once again, David faced Goliath eye to eye. Many other Encampments of Civil Disobedience were established over the course of that year in the target range. At the beginning of May 2000, there were about 14 of them with over one hundred people living permanently in such harsh conditions.

    On Thursday, May 4, 2000, at 5:30 A.M. federal authorities began to arrest the people conducting Civil Disobedience in Vieques. This was considered as an offence of the U.S. Government against the will of the people of Vieques and Puerto Rico that took back their land for one full year to prevent the bombing and shelling of the Island.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Now, the question is, because of the pending War of the US vs. Iraq, et. al. will the Navy leave, or are they still trying to get out of it and pulling strings in Wash DC and Pueto Rico?

    Again, look at Puerto Rico in a historical context:
    Remember, Prez. Bush is into Weapons of Mass Distraction, because he knows most people are very distracted with other issues not to do with black history and culture in Vieques.

    Brief history of Puerto Rico

    History of U.S. military
    in Puerto Rico

    What you can do

    Vieques Island

    Resources for advocacy work

    Notes

    Map of military presence
    (PDF document)

    Map/fact sheet on Puerto Rico
    (PDF document)



    Brief History of Puerto Rico

    The island of Puerto Rico was called Borinquen, or "land of the great lords," by its first inhabitants, the Taino Arawak Indians. The Arawaks were originally from South America and arrived in the Caribbean as early as 500 B.C. Spaniard Ponce de Leon established the first European settlement on the island in 1508. European diseases, forced labor, and Spanish violence greatly reduced the Arawak population. In 1517, four thousand African slaves were brought to Puerto Rico. Puerto Ricans have since forged a strong identity from their Spanish, Taino, and African roots.

    In the late 1800s, popular discontent with Spanish rule began to erupt in Puerto Rico. By the 1890s, the United States was experiencing growing economic pressures and was looking for foreign markets and cheap natural resources. There was also a common idea in the United States that "Providence has decreed that [Puerto Rico] shall be ours." This notion was not lost on the people of Puerto Rico. (See sidebar.) These economic and expansionist pressures led to the Spanish-American War of 1898, where the United States triumphed over Spain and thereby gained control of Puerto Rico.

    The American nation is a dangerous neighbor, especially for Cuba, the Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico. We must trust very little in her statements.... On alert then, the United States urgently needs to establish a position in the Antilles.

    - An 1894 editorial in Puerto Rican newspaper La Democraçia

    The U.S. Military governed Puerto Rico until Congress passed the Foraker Act of 1900, which set up a civilian government under an all-powerful, U.S.-appointed governor. The U.S. Jones Act of 1917 included some governmental reforms, but disenfranchisement of the Puerto Rican people remained. The Jones Act also made all Puerto Ricans U.S. citizens and eligible to be drafted into the U.S. Military

    The U.S. invasion in Puerto Rico opened the door for U.S. sugar companies, in conjunction with local capitalists, to convert large sections of the island into exploitative sugar plantations. The discontent of Puerto Rican workers grew with the Great Depression and led to labor unrest and a strong nationalist movement. U.S. officials responded by violently cracking down on protesters and trying to improve conditions on the island. In 1948, Puerto Ricans elected their own governor for the first time. A constitution was completed in 1952, which established Puerto Rico as a "Free Associated State" (or commonwealth), although the U.S. Congress continued to be in charge of the more important decisions affecting the island. The United States still exercises broad control over immigration, customs, mail services, currency, communications, and commerce on the island of Puerto Rico.

    In the 1950s, the U.S. government promoted industrialization of Puerto Rico through tax breaks and a low-paid, but highly productive workforce. Although this program enlarged the economy and created industrial jobs, more jobs were lost at the same time in the agricultural sector. To relieve the pressures of unemployment, U.S. and Puerto Rican authorities promoted migration of Puerto Ricans to the United States, and, between 1945 and 1965, more than 500,000 people moved to the United States. The growth of pharmaceutical and petroleum corporations on the island in the 1960s led to serious air and water pollution and huge amounts of toxic waste. As early as the mid-1960s, foreign corporations began moving to places where labor was cheaper than in Puerto Rico. The long-term social and economic crisis in Puerto Rico has been exacerbated by the neoliberal policies of Puerto Rican Governor Pedro Roselló. Between 1980 and 1990, the number of people living in poverty grew by 600,000; in 1998, two-thirds of the population lived below the poverty line. 1

    What can you do to help preserve the African Heritage of Vieques, join a Peace Movement that is concerned with Vieques: There are many, this is just an example:

    Latin American/Caribbean Peacebuilding Program
    1501 Cherry Street, Philadelphia, PA 19102
    phone: 215-241-7162; fax: 215-241-7177; e-mail: ncardona@afsc.org



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  • replied
    Originally posted by spade
    the question is are puerto ricans pround of their african hertiage
    I know I am, lol.

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  • replied
    turn around

    the question is are puerto ricans pround of their african hertiage

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Me estoy riendo....suenas como un cubano de Miami. Give me the $$ and dump the culture. Lol.

    When I come to PR to visit many think I am a Cuban. I could care less, those things are not important at all. In my heart I know what I am.

    Regarding economics: I care for the well being of the islanders and I am not willing to sacrifice them for my own personal ideology. In that regard I always admired Muñoz Marin who was an Independendista/Socialista. In the end he sacrificed his ideal so the Boricuas como tu y yo could have "bariga llena; corazon contento".

    Regarding giving away my culture like the Cubans do:

    I have news for you--- the kids from Cuban families in Florida are fully bilingual even thou they have never been in Cuba. The overwhelming majority of the PR kids born in New York do not speak Spanish. Take this as it is, but that is the sad reality. But, is not only the Cubans--- the kids from most Latin inmigrants to the USA can still speak Spanish whereas many Nuyoricans cannot.

    I bet you and your mom are closer to the culture of PR than me and I congratulate the two of you for that. I do not deny that my culture has been contaminated by the invasion of the Americans, I wish we had a pure culture, but we don't. We are destined to have a culture which is a mix.

    But why is your mom working in the USA?

    You know why------ because she could never find a job like that in PR. But, she scorns the very system that provides her a job. I know she has encountered hardship and discrimination in the states------- All Latins do! However, she elected to stay and work over there even thou she could have come back to her land. The reason she stayed was purely economical, don't kid yourself, there is no other reason. So in the end she is a lot like me. We enjoy the dollars and as I said use the Gringos as toilet paper. I think I am right on this one, she does not sound like a gringo lover to me.

    You say you are now in PR. I am glad for you------- you are home. There is nothing like home!!

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  • replied
    Stan que respeta el dolar gringo

    What do you think Stan? Do you think the line about give us the bucks for economic security and who cares about your race-obsessed gringo reality...gee, Stan that is gonna endear you to those republicans.

    Yautia was born in PR, and I was born in Puerto Rico, went to college and high school in PR, married in PR. I lived in various countries and planning to leave the USA, I am not attached to the gringo perspective whether for $$$ and then wiping my whatever with their race obsessed cultural hangups. Me estoy riendo....suenas como un cubano de Miami. Give me the $$ and dump the culture. Lol.

    SUKI

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  • replied
    Suki:

    Read my exchanges with Miranda about those issues. NO ONE in latin American is considered white in the race obsessed USA. Why do you think the census form uses the term "WHITE (non-hispanic)." IN the race obsessed USA there is no such thing as a Hispanic white. Is that really important? Of course not!! Who cares!! The sad thing is that we the Puerto Ricans who have moved to the USA have now become concerned with racial issues. When I was growing up and/or living in PR I never thought about racial issues. Now our minds have been poisoned by those who see everything thru the racial lens. If we become a state we will have economic security and I believe that is important. Otherwise you and I or anyone else can wipe our rears with the gringo. Who really cares about what they think? Forget about what others think or say. Be yourself and do not be concerned with trying to fit into a society that is not yours.

    Yautia said she has spent most of her life in NYC. How about you?

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    It does not matter what a Puerto Rican thinks it is the USA congress and senate

    If you believe in statehood Stanley you should consider how the race-obsessed USA views PR, because they are the ones you need to convince of how non-black we are. Especially Rush Limbaugh, George Will and William Buckley Jr. and people like Sen. Orrin Hatch R-Utah, who is trying to get Miguel Estrada confirmed to the supreme court, and who said "MANUEL" instead of Miguel on cspan, afterall manuel or miguel who cares? All those people are Another Rican's idols, and do they think we are black? And Limited English speakers? How are you gonna sell statehood to these republicans? But I forgot Stan is not going to sacrifice anything for pushing statehood. He just will spout the rethoric but not do anything beyond that.

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  • replied
    Yautia:

    With few exeptions most of my childhood Puerto Rican idols were black. Clemente, Peruchin, Teo Cruz, Rafael Hernandez, Pedro Flores, ect, ect. I used to like El Bate (our governor) during my childhood, but he was not black. The funny thing is that way back them (I am 52 years old) I was so young and naive that I did not have a concept of racism. I saw these folks as fellow Puerto Ricans. In my childhood of the 1950s the popular music was Cortijo y su Combo. His most popular tune written by Bobby Capo (another half black guy) was "Mataron el Negro Bembon". I remember that this song was a monster hit in PR. I never realized that the lyrics of the song could have been interpreted as racist. As I said in other posts, none in my family was concerned with racial issues. We never talked about skin color.

    I never considered myself black; I saw myself as a white person. But, once again this was never an issue. I certainly did not spend any time thinking about it. My skin is "blanca and rosada" and I can really turn red like a tomato. Both my parents were fair as well as the rest of the family. In San Juan my mom was always mistaken for a Gringa tourist.

    I have the feeling that you are trying to make the case that I may be a racist and I want to warm you ahead of time. You are very wrong! My dad was the most honest and fair handed man I have ever known. In fact he is my idol and he showed me by example (to treat our fellow man with kindness and honor). I never ever heard him said anything nasty about anyone who was considered black.

    When I was in the 4th grade I had a fist-fight with a very black kid (like Serrat says prieto como el betun). As the teacher broke up the fight all my class-mates cheered the black kid and put me down because I had lost the fight. The evidence was that my face was very red, therefore the presumption was that the other kid had landed the best punches at me. Of course, I felt bad; at that age no one wants to feel like a loser. Then the janitor of the school rolled by and said: "Well, who knows maybe the other kid got hit quite a bit, but you cannot tell because he is so prieto." I then looked at my opponents face and I instantly knew that was the wrong thing to say; I actually felt sorry for him.

    Do I have black genes in me? Probably yes! Even if I was 100% Spaniard I would still have them as the Moors spent eight centuries in Southern Spain. Many of the Spaniards that came to PR were from Andalucia. In my travels to Spain I have seen many dark skinned Andalucians.

    Do I feel black as you do? No

    Have I studied black poetry? No, I don't have the time and I went to school for something entirely different.


    Here we are having a conversation about race. This is the legacy of the racist obsessed USA. If you and I had been talking in PR in the 1950s this would not have been an issue.


    [Edited by Stanley on 13th February 2003 at 04:41]

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  • replied
    National Origin Hispanic, Black because somos del Caribe

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Stanley
    [B]Jose:

    You and I had a similar experience. I mingled so much with other Latins that I acquired that neutral accent you talk about.
    ______________________________________________________________

    Dear Stanley:

    There you go again. Most PRs develop a "standard" dialect of Spanish, also known as generic Spanish, some can even speak
    "Prestige" Spanish, that is they are great at being orators in public discourse.

    Now, here is the issue, are you comfortable at being labelled
    Black because we are part of the Caribbean Basin?

    How do you feel about Black Puerto Ricans?

    How do you like the Black poetry of Luis Pales Matos?
    How do you feel about the Black History and Culture or the Black Fishermen of Vieques?

    Yautia

    Paz Para Vieques

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  • replied
    Jose:

    You and I had a similar experience. I mingled so much with other Latins that I acquired that neutral accent you talk about. That is why you can see a Puertorican like Celeste or an Argentinian doing the news and they sound the same. In my case I made sure I pronounced the Rs and also made sure not to mix English and Spanish in the same sentence (the so called Spanglish). In summary, I tried to come up with my own personal Spanish which sometimes contained the best of other Spanish dialects. This can actually be a lot of fun and can help anyone sound educated even if he or she is not. Changing from "china to naranja" took some effort while away from PR. But, when I get to PR I am able to say china again. I once played golf in Cerromar with a Cuban and a Puertorican and made it a point to say all the golf lingo in Spanish. It was actually a lot of fun and then I realized that the Cuban guy was actually doing the same thing. If I pulled the ball, I would say "la hale". The only problem was the putter. I simply called it "el putero" and the act of putting on the green was described as "puteando". We had fun with it! I now believe it is a lot of fun to speak Spanish without mixing it with English. It also makes that mancha de platano less visible.

    I also noted that if I spent too much time with Argentinians I would be talking like then in no time. Some of the language variations are reall cool. Instead of saying "Quien eres?" they may say "Quien sos?". These folks have a language of their own.

    When I come back to PR a lot of folks think I am Cuban. I know exactly what you mean.

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  • replied
    I have spent half my life away from PR, speaking with Spanish speakers who are from other countries such as Venezuela, Mexico, Argentina, etc.. I regularly watch US Spanish Network TV with their "neutral" accent, especially the news. As my English has gotten better, I have lost some of that Caguas (my hometown in PR) draw along the way. I don't usually say "Caguah" anymore. I try to say "Caguas". I don't say "vamoh" anymore. I try to say "vamos".

    The thing I find interesting is when people I meet here in the states tell me "You do not sound Puerto Rican." I even had a Colombian woman tell me once "You have such a beautiful accent. Where are you from?"

    The thing that pains me sometimes is when I go to PR and people tell me "You don't sound Puerto Rican. Where are you from?."

    I suppose language can sometimes be so much more than pronunciation and missing endings.

    José

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  • replied
    Si tengo algunas errores gramáticas en mi mensaje, por favor, corríjame.

    Originally posted by Nacionalista
    Mi familia se puede trazar hasta el siglo 1200.
    LOL! ¿Cómo puedes saber la historia de su familia tan lejos en tiempo? Yo he dado cuenta que hay mucha gente aquí que sabe su historia de familia hasta su ocupación en españa y otras partes de europa de los años de 17, 16, hasta los 1500's y más. Sólo sé de la historia de mi familia hasta el temprano de los 1800's, jaja.

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  • replied
    La Academia Real Española hizo un estudio en la decada del 80 para averiguar cuales paises latino-americanos mantienen un español cercano al español de hace 400 años.

    De todos los paises, Puerto Rico mantiene un 85% del lenguage original, y Panama es el ultimo con un 25%.

    En cuanto al tema de esta discusion. Yo estoy orgulloso de mi herencia española.

    Mi familia se mudo a Puerto Rico en los 1700 desde la Provincia de Toledo en España. Anteriormente se habian mudado de el Norte de Italia en los 1500, huyendo de la Plaga que mato un 50% de los Europeos en tres siglos (The Black Death).

    Mi familia se puede trazar hasta el siglo 1200.

    Stanley? You look like J. Garcia from Musicology.


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  • replied
    Yautia:

    Once again a great post! It was very informative and I agree with most of what you said.

    It is quite powerful to use those language variations you describe. It would be boring if everybody in Latin America spoke the same kind of Spanish. I agree that MLK was a great orator and was able to use the lingo of his culture quite well and no one can deny there is something special about it. I also get a kick when I hear a Mexican, Cuban, or an Argentinian use their own variations of the language. As Puerto Ricans we also have great sayings and variations which drive the point home and I embrace this language growth as a wonderful thing. In fact that is how languages were created.

    This may be unfortunate for you, but since the invasion of the Americans (the ones that you live with in the USA) language has acquired an "anglo angle". We like to say safacon to name a thrash bin (originally safety can). Of course, in my day a blender was called "The Osterizer" and your beloved Cubans (not the gusanos course) called the refrigerator "El Frigidaire". Some Puertoricans call each other as: "Que pasa brodel" (brodel = brother). Of course as a kid I always described a truck as "El Tro" and my father always said Camion; the Mexicans say Troca.

    Do not worry to much about the Americanization of the culture. This is also prevalent all over the world and you will find kids with Michel Jordan #23 jerseys all over the world including China and Africa.

    I am with you regarding salsa. I stop listening a long time ago and mainly remeber the original ones such as Cortijo, El Gran Combo, and the early Fania folks. Then I got hit by rock and roll in high school and by the likes of Serrat and Sylvio in the UPR.

    But, back to the culture---------- within any culture you tend to find subcultures. Some are more desirable than others and some are clearly related to social status. However, there are some things that are clearly universal and that is the Mancha de platano. Mine is pretty hard to see whereas yours is more obvious, but we both have it.

    One more thing about the language: It is nice to use those authentic idiomatic expressions that only you and I know. It is acceptable to vary the pronunciation as other LAtins do, but in every culture there is an uneducated fringe who will thrash the language beyond recognition and to the point where it may sound vulgar and IMO unacceptable. This generally precludes these folks from having any kind of achievement in our society. For example in some subcultures folks use the F word in every single sentence. That is not nice, at some point one must realize that we have gone beyond the point of no return.


    I have another adivinanza:

    Which is the shortest male name in the world?

    I will give you a hint: It is not Casimiro; it is not Nicasio. There is one male name much shorter-------- guess?

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