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  • Learning about Democracy

    Although i read a lot about democracy, and its evolution.. i had never 'enjoyed' living in a democratic country.. nor 'enjoyed' casting my vote..

    that's the introduction.. we Arabs like writing introductions

    what amazed me is news that Powell (sp?) said USA will not intervene to support candidates in Iraq. And also the accusations he made that Iran had sent operatives to tweak Election and support its friends!!

    Other than changing votes.. or using terror to get votes.. or tampering with ballot boxes..

    How can a country ,whether its Iran or USA, affect the elections ? ie affecting the people's minds and choices?

    is it really possible that simply Iran Can sent agents to affect the opinions of millions of iraqis...
    Is it really possible that USA CAN, should they choose to do it, AFFECT THE ELECTIONS and make the iraqis choose the USA's favourite candidates?!


  • #2
    Voice

    Hi Voice...If the US was so bad, the terrorists and the Iraninians would not be killing so many Iraquis to try to get them to fear voting on election. Sooner than later, the Iraqui National Guard will be strong enough to deal with them...and nobody will have the abiltiy to blame the US then. Have a great day Voice!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Voice

      Although i read a lot about democracy, and its evolution.. i had never 'enjoyed' living in a democratic country.. nor 'enjoyed' casting my vote..

      JM:

      I too would like to live in a democracy, but I live in a Capitalist Society.

      If you talk to God, you are praying; if God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.
      Thomas Szasz

      Comment


      • #4
        No se confunda la gimnasia con la magnesia

        "I too would like to live in a democracy, but I live in a Capitalist Society.
        "

        Both situations are compatible, not mutually exclusive. One is a system of 'government.' The other an 'economic' system.

        There are 'socialist democracies' in Europe, and there is also the 'Chinese Capitalism.' And of course, there is Capitalism in many dictatorships.


        As an aside, a 'democracy' does not merely entail having elections. There is a whole system of checks and balances, a set of governmental institutions, a given set of human rights, etc., that ensure the 'equality of the rights of the citizens' that a presumed democracy must uphold.



        Cheers,
        David Santos

        Habe nun, ach! Philosophie,
        Juristerei und Medizin
        Und leider auch Theologie
        Durchaus studiert mit heissem Bemuhn.
        Da steh ich nun, ich armer Tor!
        Und bin so klug als wie zuvor.

        Ich bin ein Teil von jener Kraft die stets das Böse will, und stets das Gutte schaft.

        Comment


        • #5
          thanks for those who replied (except one).. but none had answered my worries

          pls. re-read my post..
          it is not about what is democracy.. not about bad US or Iran.. not about who kills iraqis (we see them on TV-- they are Zarqawi people + US soldiers)..


          == here is my questions ==
          How can a country ,whether its Iran or USA, affect the elections ? ie affecting the people's minds and choices?

          is it really possible that simply Iran Can sent agents to affect the opinions of millions of iraqis...
          Is it really possible that USA CAN, should they choose to do it, AFFECT THE ELECTIONS and make the iraqis choose the USA's favourite candidates?!
          ============================

          Comment


          • #6
            == here is my questions ==
            How can a country ,whether its Iran or USA, affect the elections ? ie affecting the people's minds and choices?

            is it really possible that simply Iran Can sent agents to affect the opinions of millions of iraqis...
            Is it really possible that USA CAN, should they choose to do it, AFFECT THE ELECTIONS and make the iraqis choose the USA's favourite candidates?!
            ============================
            Is it too difficult..

            or you don't know?


            that's a problem... it means you also don't know if any other country can push their favourite candidate in the USA election?

            Comment


            • #7
              Concie?

              Comment


              • #8
                Voice and Jane

                Voice, they may affect the election by scaring the people from going to the polls to vote. You seem to psychologigally be leaning towards the people doing the killing of Iraqui citizens. I hope I'm my views of what you're thinking are wrong! Since you are an Arab, I would like to see more statements against the terrorists than against the USA.

                Jane, you're statement against Capitalism is foolish! But I will fight and die to preserve your right to say it! You are Blessed to live in this country. Is there an Eastern
                European immigrant active here who can response to Jane?

                Comment


                • #9
                  so you say Election may be affected by "scaring people"

                  so is that the method by which America can affect the election...

                  remeber it is Mr. Colin Paul who said America will not push their favourite candidates...

                  means Paul admits that AMERICA CAN affect the election whenever they wish... and you say by "scaring out voters"?! (may be by killing opposition leaders?!)

                  is that what you mean?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re:Learning About Democracy and Capitalism!!.

                    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Voice
                    [B]so you say Election may be affected by "scaring people"

                    so is that the method by which America can affect the election...

                    remeber it is Mr. Colin Paul who said America will not push their favourite candidates...

                    means Paul admits that AMERICA CAN affect the election whenever they wish... and you say by "scaring out voters"?! (may be by killing opposition leaders?!)

                    is that what you mean?
                    _______________________________________________________________

                    If you know anything about history and about Latin American History, in particular, there is a lot of information on the web on the many times that the US has "scared people" (Guatemala and President Arbenz), and a lot of times they have "affected the elections" in many countries around the world (Central America and The Caribbean in particular);
                    but the most horrible example for me was Chile, their methods are very cruel indeed. They do not just kill the opposition leaders, they have wipped out thousands of innocent victims just because they did not want a democracy that had an opposition.(Check out Argentina and Las Madres de la Plaza de Mayo); They will only allow a democracy after they wipe out the opposition. Does it make sense? No, but that is the truth!

                    And by the way, if you want to learn history in the US you gotta go see a movie:



                    Read the movie reviews in:


                    The Boston Globe
                    The Hollywood Reporter
                    The Washington Post
                    The LA Daily News
                    The LA Times
                    Entertainment Weekly
                    Agence France-Presse

                    Time
                    The Daily Star
                    Middle East Online
                    Variety.com
                    The Village Voice

                    You have to keep your eyes on THE MEDIA
                    Films critique coverage of Iraq war

                    Example:

                    News industry failed, they say
                    By Mark Jurkowitz, Globe Staff | June 30, 2004

                    The news industry is an inviting target in "Fahrenheit 9/11," Michael Moore's cinematic assault on the war in Iraq. "Fortunately, we have an independent media," Moore intones sarcastically in the film before unleashing clips featuring patriotic pronouncements from major media figures.
                    In his documentary "WMD: Weapons of Mass Deception," veteran journalist and media watchdog Danny Schechter accuses news outlets of creating a "prowar narrative driven by jingoism, not journalism."

                    Interviewed in Robert Greenwald's documentary "Uncovered: The War on Iraq," a former UN weapons inspector, Scott Ritter, bluntly says "the media is culpable for the misleading of the American public."

                    A key point in Jehane Noujaim's documentary "Control Room," which examines Al-Jazeera's coverage of the Iraq war, occurs when a US press aide concludes that the Qatar-based media outlet's Arab-centric bias is the mirror image of the Fox News Channel's blatant American nationalism.

                    With postwar Iraq proving to be bloody and unstable, and given the failure to find weapons of mass destruction, a reassessment of the assumptions and rationales that guided US policy has implicated the White House, the CIA, the Iraqi exile community, and the British government.

                    ____________________________________________________________

                    This aint a free country, it is a facist country, there is no democracy, trust me, I can prove it.

                    Yautia








                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yautia

                      Yautia, my and I cherish the freedom we enjoy in the US. We enjoy the people we meet througout this country. We will never agree with people that put our country down with some radical reason. Many American soldiers have died defeating and freeing many of out stinking NATO allies
                      in Europe. South Korea and Japan are great countries today due to the Amrirican help and dollars freedom and defeat, respectively. So you liberals, communists, and nationalists will never convince me on your agenda.

                      Voice, we defeated Iraq, and we have a right to support candidates that will allow Iraq to be free to vote for the candidate they want.What['s so wrong with that. All the terrorist activity that many appear to support will do nothing but hurt Iraqui folks. Nothing that the uSA recommends and support during the election will do nothing that won't make an Iraqui Family''s life to be better. This is our history everywhere we've been victorious.

                      The banana republic's in South American, were the few own everything, are a large contrast with the USA that is so free that we become more successful, powerful, and generous than many of the rogue states some of y0u support. God Bless You and America.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        thanks, YAUTIAPR

                        that's horrible!!! it may even explain why US is putting lots of effort to wipe out Al-Sadr supporters!!!


                        Rivera33,

                        My question is [CAN]...

                        so answer is YES.

                        USA can influence the iraqi election and put their favourite candidates...

                        MEANS we should not trust the result of Election!!

                        but if USA thinks they have the RIGHT to put their favourite candidates...,,
                        which means "USA knows better than you, iraqis"..

                        who else have the right to influence the Election..!! may be Iran, the biggest Shia nation...

                        may be the Saudis, who don't want a SHIITE Iraq?!

                        may be israel, who want an ally in Iraq?!

                        who else?!

                        and the most dangerous question is...
                        if it is easy for Iran to influence Iraqi election...
                        is it also possible for other powerful groups to influence US election?


                        and if Election result reflects the most powerful influnece of USA or other foreign states, what use of Election..??

                        YOU ARE SAYING THAT
                        ELECTION RESULT IS NOT THE CHOICE OF PEOPLE!!!
                        so whole this democracy thing is just a BIG LIE?!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The way you affect elections is by giving money aka backing a politician and/or political party. The people will still be able to democratically elect their representatives but the candidates with the most money get more exposure. They can afford to get their names in the paper, their faces on tv and billboards printed up. Who is someone more likely to vote for? The person who they recongnise from all of his/her ads or a name on a ballot that one never heard of? That's how you affect elections.

                          Now you can also, militarily wipe out opponents, put only one person on the ballot and scare everyone into voting for you. As was the case during the last sham election that Saddam held in Iraq. Or Sadr and Zarqawi supporters can target political officials and plant bombs where the elections are being held, killing Iraqi voters. Which will happen, mark my words. But they wont stop the process. The Iraqi's who are determined enough to cast their vote, while risking their lives, will be able to elect their own representatives. The rest will be history in the making.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Elmaestro,,

                            your post is less horrifying..

                            but still.. if foreign money can affect ballot.. it means Election is NOT ACCURATELY what people wanted! but what they are decieved to think be wanting!

                            for example, Compass is to measure the north, but if there is a magnetic field which can affect the compass, the compass no longer points to the north!

                            the problem is worse especially in USA.. it means the president Elect is not "acuurately" people's choice rather than "MONEY" choice!

                            i think we better find a way for accurate election!


                            btw, i assure you Al-Sadr supporters won't do it.. they may even participate in Election..

                            but Al-Zarqawi, is different issue... HE IS A PIG.. a KILLER... no word can describe him accurately... pls. don't compare him to any body else... even Hitler is an angel compared to him!
                            Have you watched his film slaying the american victim!
                            if you did not,, pls Don't... it is very horrible!! if you did.. pls pray for GOD that Zarqawi will burn for ever in hell and will be caught and tortured in life before his eternal torture in Hell!.. sorry.. i went off topic,,, but since i watched i can't forget.. and you remind me by mentioning that pig's name! i don't know the american.. he may be whatever evil he is.. but certainly no human deserve to die like that.. it was very ugly and brutal.. and this god-damned group are enjoying filming their agressions against GOD himself.. they are using GOD's name and GOD is cursing them and preparing hellfire for them..

                            I pray for GOD that we all see GOD's revenge in Zarqawi in life before the after-death for

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re:Learning about Democracy!!!!!

                              [QUOTE]Originally posted by Voice
                              [B]Thanks Elmaestro,,

                              your post is less horrifying..

                              but still.. if foreign money can affect ballot.. it means Election is NOT ACCURATELY what people wanted! but what they are decieved to think be wanting!

                              for example, Compass is to measure the north, but if there is a magnetic field which can affect the compass, the compass no longer points to the north!

                              the problem is worse especially in USA.. it means the president Elect is not "acuurately" people's choice rather than "MONEY" choice!

                              i think we better find a way for accurate election!


                              btw, i assure you Al-Sadr supporters won't do it.. they may even participate in Election..

                              but Al-Zarqawi, is different issue... HE IS A PIG.. a KILLER... no word can describe him accurately... pls. don't compare him to any body else... even Hitler is an angel compared to him!
                              Have you watched his film slaying the american victim!
                              if you did not,, pls Don't... it is very horrible!! if you did.. pls pray for GOD that Zarqawi will burn for ever in hell and will be caught and tortured in life before his eternal torture in Hell!.. sorry.. i went off topic,,, but since i watched i can't forget.. and you remind me by mentioning that pig's name! i don't know the american.. he may be whatever evil he is.. but certainly no human deserve to die like that.. it was very ugly and brutal.. and this god-damned group are enjoying filming their agressions against GOD himself.. they are using GOD's name and GOD is cursing them and preparing hellfire for them..

                              I pray for GOD that we all see GOD's revenge in Zarqawi in life before the after-death for
                              _____________________________________________________________

                              You are what you do. You do what you know.

                              The question is: How did all these humans become so dehumanized? Where, pray ye, did they get all these "strategies" for killing, torture and deceit? Just take a look at the history of School of the Americas.

                              YautiaPR

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