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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    I know Euros settle in African. But not in the number as they settle in Mexico.
    Whether the numbers were different was not my point. It was your denial of African pre-European civilization that made me question your credibility on your post that obviously showed that what you knew was pretty much what many think of Africa while not knowing the total facts and the history of the region.

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    The difference is that when you own your own city state the people of that city state gain all benefit. Plus the colonies had an Allie which was France.
    You're right. In the long run, freedom from the USA gov't is what you might receive. However, freedom doesn't always last long. The Mexican Revolution lasted for about 10 years and killed about 875 thousand people, and look at México now. Things are seemingly getting worse. It's the continual effort to sustain democracy and economic stability generations after the "freedom fighters" have fought and fallen is what truely matters.

    The USA colonies were still economically unstable for generations after the revolution and pretty much only succeeded in becoming the richest nation on Earth because ofManifest Destiny and imperialism.

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    Allies Japan, N. Korea, China all dislike the U.S. These countries are not just a good source of good number of military but also a good market to trade with after a victory don’t you think?
    Bad examples. Japan is a strong ally of the USA. The USA even has military bases there since Japan has no strong military of its own.

    North Korea leaves millions of its people to starve and worship their "communist" leaders. What does it have to trade with you when it doesn't care for importing goods except expensive European exotic foods for their rich leaders?

    China was the only good example you gave and as everyone knows, might be the next world power. However, China trades with just about everyone, so I don't think México will be as strong as an ally. Also, not many nations are willing to see China replace the USA in power and influence. However, México currently does have a strong trades over $300 billion of goods with the USA itself.

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    Mexico is also a good source of soldier service and by the way California a big trade partner. 40% of all Marines are Mexicans.
    You guys do have the most medals won in a USA war than any other minority. However, those 40% of Mexican Marines won't easily fight for México while serving for the USA military. I've asked Mexicans friends going into the military if they would fight against México if the USA had a war with that nation, and all of them said yes, because they said they swore an oath to the USA.

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    We can offer this countries their controls of their Asian Island that are been run by the U.S., etc. The point is that these countries will love to see the U.S out of power.
    Are you just seeking to take control of the SW or the entire USA? Anyway, why offer your allies those islands (American Samoa, Guam, Northern Marines, Hawaii...etc) when you should be giving them their freedom. Are you striving for México to become another imperial power when México itself have suffered imperialism? Just questions for better understanding of the situation.

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    About the businesses, that can easily be replace by the new owner of the land, Mexicans. IS not a big thing. That’s what we want them to do leave so we can take over. What's the point of a war if it wasn't for that? lol.
    Like I mention California is already a strong place to make the money if it falls it can easily be brought up again. Look at 1930's the U.S was in a great depression yet they went to war and what happen? Just lift up!
    You can't just create businesses in a few years again if they are completely destroyed in a war. California is only a strong place to make money because of USA rule, take that away and you'll see it'll no longer be favorable to foreign and domestic investors. Like I wrote, look at the Civil War. It's said that the debt created from that war was finally payed off during the Clinton Administration. That was over 130 years after the war ended! My guess, by examining wars around the world, (Look at the Spanish Civil War of the 1930's, the economy only recovered over 30 years later but is still one of the slowest in Europe. Or even take the defeat of the Spanish Armada by Queen Elizabeth of England's Navy in the 16 century...Spain never recovered from that!) it might take generations to restore California to its former glory. However, if it could be easily done in California, why isn't it being done in México? Why aren't you working for that now? Are you hoping that it continues to suffer economic and political instability to increase emigration and increase political power in the SW? You could push as many Mexicans into the USA, but that doesn't mean you'll rule the nation. Look at the African-American, Asian and gringo opposition to Mexicans in California! Look at the Apartheid in South Africa...the white minority ruled the black majority because they had the political and economical power and even though they've lost many of the political power now, economics still rule and neo-liberalism hasn't helped that either.

    Creating a new economy out of almost nothing after a war (Which is most likey to happen since the USA gov't sees seccesion as unconstitutional) isn't easy, especially when the country was poor to begin with. You might need strong allies to help, but as I wrote before, who will that be when the USA has such strong economic and political influence? This Iraq situation is only taking place because many don't like Bush's true intentions, but that doesn't mean they would support a poor Latin American nation over the USA.

    About the Great Depression, another bad example. World War II was not fought on USA land, but it was fought in Germany, England, France, Japan...etc, either from air raised and/or ground troops. Those countries were in devestation after the war and only improved because the strong USA economy after war, gave them aid. Since a war with the USA for SW most likey will be fought in SW and/or in current México, you'll probably face what many European nations faced after their wars. This isn't the 18th Century anymore, England didn't have as much economic and political power as the USA has now over the world. I don't believe it should be that way, but it is and I'm only trying to understand what SW most likey will face in their separation to México.

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    About Mexico is a different topic because we are talking about the SW. Mexico has no control over that. Mexicans in the SW do have control we live here and the future of it is based on us. We are growing in greater number and someday just take it with or without a war.
    México has no control? What nation in the SW going to ceceed to? What nation will fight the war? The topic I regretfully have not brought up is how will Mexicans react to your purposed separation to their nations? I bet they'll be glad to regain their lost lands, but are they willing to fight for it as much as you are? Many have expressed dislike for Chicanos, from my discussions with them. You're dealing with the Federal USA and Mexican governments, the local governments of the SW and geo-politics. They all have to go your way in order for your plan to work and that might take as long as the time you lost those lands, or more!

    Originally posted by Mexicankaoznet
    I’m not going to talk no more about you p/Rican nationalism, etc. You’re right I not familiar and don’t know anything but I tell you this we got more to gain then whatever you guys want to do. And I’m not surprise that you are in a way against this Chicano movement or don’t believe in it, who ever isn’t Mexican wouldn’t be with it.
    That's good, because as you've already proven in your posts, you primarily only know about the SW and old Mexican history and then go with the myths and corporate news "facts" about the rest of the world. That isn't going to help when what you're advocating involves the world 10 times over. However, your intelligence is a start and I invite you too keep on learning like all human beings should and I am with every post.

    It's funny that you say that you have more to gain than what the PR independence movement does when you already wrote that you don't know anything about it. That's a major contradiction. All human beings have much to gain from their freedom, you're not superior.

    You will have to have many other people of different ethnicities to be somewhat in agreement with your movement if you want international and regional allies to further your cause, it might save you a couple of decades of waiting to have all of México's population in California, lol. I might seem like I oppose you, feel superior to you, or am trying to offend you in my posts, but it's only a political debate where emotions are heated. As I wrote before, I mean no harm. Just picking the contradictions and disagreements in your posts to fully comprehend what you're thinking.

    It's not that I'm against it. I question all things, even movements I'm defintely in agreement with. It's the only way I'll extract more information from people.

    Anyway, thanks for the information. I support any causes that supports freedom from colonialism or imperialism while supporting democracy and the equality of human beings. However, I've come to the conclusion that if your cause succeeds, then it most likey will "dethrone" the USA as a super power and that will be good for the world and my cause. However, my only hope is that you'll respect the minorities in the SW, don't become an imperial power or allow your allies to do the same. Still, I think this is unlikey to take place due to how the world works, but anything is possible. Just improve your arguements in defense of it.

    Well, it's been fun discussing with you and hope to further debate and learn with you. Adiós.

    [i]What are the reasons you came to this forum anyway?[/b]

    [Edited by Ecuajey on 10th January 2003 at 00:18]


    • #32
      I need to comment on this

      Ok, let me get into this discussion. With all respect to those that have given their comments. Aztlan is a dream that will never come true. Let me give you my take why. Many of the Chicano generation feel alienated like many “minority groups”, but trying to bring about a “revolution” in the Southwest is a pipe dream folks. Let me comment on some statements.

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      “I know Euros settle in African. But not in the number as they settle in Mexico. The Aztec Empire was build on what the Spaniards were use to all they had to do is take over the power. And they did. You know how the Spanish King had a hard time sending noble man elsewhere in America? They all wanted to be part of the richest of the Aztecs. They didn't want to be sent to Cuba or south American [except for the Inca they were also strong and wealthy] Mexico had it what they all want”.

      Of course the Spaniards settled Tenochtitlan and conquered it. They pursue the three “Gs”; God, Glory, and GOLD! And we all know what was more important to them.

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      “I'm well aware of the downfall of a war/revolution. It's obvious that in order to have something like this happen you have to plan it and have strategies right? I know that!!! My main goal is not to cause a war is to gain power politically and running our selves BUT if it lead to a war like i mention, then so be it. Now tell me this, when this country was a colonies of the English crown didn’t they were also bankrupt after the revolution? The difference is that when you own your own city state the people of that city state gain all benefit. Plus the colonies had an Allie which was France”.

      Sure, war leads sometimes to economic depression in some sectors of the economy. But, overall, the great majority of those affected, is the common citizen who paid the bill of waging war.

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      Things that benefit us Mexicans with in and out of this country:
      “Japan, N. Korea, China all dislike the U.S. These countries are not just a good source of good number of military but also a good market to trade with after a victory don’t you think?
      Mexico is also a good source of soldier service and by the way California a big trade partner.
      40% of all Marines are Mexicans. We are gaining political power”.

      Now this is something that kind of hits the wall at 100 mph. I do not think many would feel Japan dislikes the U.S., but I do know the other two do, LOL. Trading with Japan and China could just flood the local market, causing jobs to be lost to cheaper products and labor. North Korea, ha, that is a laugh. They can build A-bombs, but can not feed their own people.

      Mexico, Mexico Lindo! You got to be kidding me right? Mexico would not come and invade the U.S. Many do not like the U.S. in Mexico, but would not want to fight another war in this day in age. But, let’s say it did, do you think that with all the military might you mention were to go against the U.S., do you think that Canada, England, and the rest of the Euro-Union are going to allow that?. Besides, Mexico wouldn’t even care about the “Chicano” movement in the U.S. You might ask why, and how do I know? Because my Spouse is Mexican, of Aztec blood. Many of them feel that “Chicanos” are not Mexican, sure decedents, but never the less, non-Mexicans, and there are many factors that affect their beliefs. One is the distance between those in Mexico when it comes to way of life and culture.

      Now 40% of Marines are Mexicans? Where you get that statistic? According to the statistics I read, there are 12.5% Hispanics in the Marines, not Mexicans. Here is a site you can check out:

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      “Now imagine one day we have total control of power in the SW [which someday will happen] there's without doubt that we be victorious, plus look at the countries we could have as our allies. We can offer this countries their controls of their Asian Island that are been run by the U.S., etc. The point is that these countries will love to see the U.S out of power”.

      That is another dream if you are talking about taking it over by political power. Sure, let us say that the southwest, all the states, counties, and cities were run by “chicano” or MEChA members or supporters, do you really think that the rest of the U.S. would just let you separate from the rest of the union without a fight? Remeber the Civil war?
      Let us just say that MEChA would take over. They would have to start taking over properties, homes, businesses, etc, etc, and then move non-chicano or other groups, Anglos (“bolillos”,“hueros”) out of these territories acquired by the new government of Aztlan, do you think that the U.S. would allow that?

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      “You said you were realistic? Be realistic on this the U.S is loosing less and less allies everyday. Countries have a hard time willing to partner up with the U.S or in favor of the U.S. just look at what is going on now! That's just the way the colonies did it. The fact that you go to war with the strongest nation is never a for sure defeat. England at the time of the revolution was one, if not the strongest nation in the world, yet they were defeated”.

      I think you meant to say, the “U.S. is losing more and more allies” not loosing less and less. Loosing, there is no such word. But, anyway, the fact is, the U.S. are gaining more allies. Look at the recent allies that join the NATO coalition like Poland, Czech republic, etc, etc. The NATO charter states that any attack of its members is an attack on them. So, allies they got. The fact that England lost the war were for many reasons, one is, they were fighting a war away from home. Tactics in war were very different then they are now. And lastly, there were many blunders committed by both sides, but mostly by the British. And like you stated, the colonies were helped by the French.
      Mexicankaoznet said:

      About Mexico is a different topic because we are talking about the SW. Mexico has no control over that. Mexicans in the SW do have control we live here and the future of it is based on us. We are growing in greater number and someday just take it with or without a war.

      You prove my point of Mexico not wanting to have a war with the U.S. or caring about the chicano movement. The “Hispanic” population is growing in the Southwest, but it is due to a lot of illegal immigrants from Mexico and the last Amnesty given by the Reagan administration in the 80s. There is an estimate of 10 million illegal Mexican immigrants in the U.S., not that it is a bad thing, many are supporting the economy, and I do believe that they should be made legal.

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      How many Mexicans believe what I'm saying? What am I doing to gain attention? lol. You mean the other way around. What did my fellow Mexicans did to get my attention.
      Check these websites out there tons of us that are aware of it and most likely favor it. You think this was all just brought up by myself? lol. There's Mexican incumbents that are with it too.

      Ok, the sites are interesting to look at , but they just talked about the negatives of MEChA (Glen Spencer’s American Patrol Report), Nativo lopez., and an article written by a paranoid and probably a racist Anglo who writes for the World Net Daily, which is a conservative organization I did check the sites out.

      Mexicankaoznet said:

      “I’m not going to talk no more about you p/Rican nationalism, etc. You’re right I not familiar and don’t know anything but I tell you this we got more to gain then whatever you guys want to do. And I’m not surprise that you are in a way against this Chicano movement or don’t believe in it, who ever isn’t Mexican wouldn’t be with it. Lol”.

      Yes, you are right. Many that are not of this political persuasion or Mexican descent do not understand it. I am not against any belief or movement to bring about pride in what we are and where we came from. I am against ideals that espouse hatred, bigotry, racism, etc, etc.

      My final thoughts and opinion; the MEChA movement will die out in the long run. They are not supported by the great majority of the Mexican people (in Mexico or in the states). They, MEChA, was created with a great dream, to bring about pride in Mexican heritage and bring about Latino and Chicano studies in Colleges in California. It is a student movement in Colleges that supports Mexican immigrants and other worthy causes, good, but it is still a radical movement and seen by many as a racist, anti-everything that is not Chicano or Mexican. Ethnocentric ideas are sometimes good to bring about awareness of one, but taking it to the extremes is sometimes dangerous.
      Please do not think I am against you, this is my take of your comments and the web sites you pointed to.

      Te Miro Carnal!


      • #33

        Thanks for participating in this debate. Even though you brought up many points I already did in my response to that particular post we both responded too, I'm glad you gave your opinion anyway. I thought I was alone in this, lol. I hope he doesn't think that we are just some dummies who don't know anything about México or Chicanos. Since your ex-wife is Mexican and I encounter Mexicans everyday at school, work, my neighborhood...etc and love learning about their culture and history as our Latin American brothers and sisters. Therefore I believe we had the right to have shared our opinions.


        • #34
          Thanks, I just wanted to add my two chavitos

          By the way, my current, and hope to be my last wife, is Take care!


          • #35
            For the idiot that doesn't know the English word "Loosing" I use it under the definition of "not bound together", "bound" meaning each "Allie" of the U.S feel less "obligate" to partner up with the U.S. or to follow U.S. rules.

            If I misspell something in my last post, I’m sorry I just don’t have the time to check what I’m writing.=)

            The only reason Japan and other countries are or seem strong Allies to the U.S is because they benefit from that partnership for the only reason of $$$. Now you might say what will they benefit from us if such partnership? Well the benefit that the SW wont be an imperialism creating some screw up foreign policy that most countries dislikes of the U.S.

            Look I’m obviously not going to go into further detail because I will never finish plus I don’t have the time of the world to respond to two different users.

            Like I already mention. I'm not interested in a war. But if it is provoke then why not? Now for this "movement" of course we are going to achieve strong political power [which currently we don’t]. What I’m trying to say is that in my case and most other Chicanos we try to reach out to, is to fight the system, like they say from the inside. We get inside the system we gain the power to run our selves.
            I’m not saying in 1 or 2 or 3 years we're going to just start a fight **** no, right now is all getting the knowledge so when the time comes we are aware and know what to do. Take power and run ourselves politically. Not having some white fools that don’t even relate to us having law and policies for us.

            This movement might take for ever to happen but it will eventually happen!!! trust me! Since you know so much about wars and revolution you should know that when there's a particular group of people been run by other, they dislike that, so when they have a strong number of citizens and strong political power they will overthrow the current ruler. That's human nature man.

            I know for sure that right now at this particular moment and time 2003 we can't win such war. We might be big in percentage but we need the same percentage in power. Like i mention over and over again. We are gaining political power that can be useful when the right time comes when? I do not know! BUT it will happen. Probably my kids-kids will do it. But the facts are that it will happen. When there hatred, injustice, prejudice trust me revolution has to happen.

            Oh about the Mexican revolution that one of you brought up talking about it didn’t create no change etc. Well actually the revolution ended but never end. get what I’m saying? The revolutionist [my heroes] Villa and Zapata were murder and the people were left alone without leaders. Plus even before the revolution people were poor so by the end of the revolution they were worst, unwilling to keep the struggle. So the revolution never actually achieve what it was supposed. The goal was to overthrow the current government and replace it with a government that will benefit the people. For a while the old Government was out but took power back once villa and Zapata were killed.

            Back to War Topic:
            After we have 90% and more of Mexicans as incumbents (office holders) we will called this a region of our own, whether other like it or not. Obviously I know the result of a war. I'm not saying we're gathering a militia and then start an uprising sometime soon, of course not. That would be stupid. Instead we are helping our people to be involved in the same fight, politically. That's our primary way to get what we want.
            Ok I repeated my self I don’t know how many time about not wanting war and political power. Hopefully you guys understand now. Since you guys try to sound all smart thinking you all know exactly the outcome. lol

            By the way there was a predictable poll of what would the people of the colonies would of vote if ask, if they were in favor in a revolution, faithful to the king, or not sure.
            40% were faithful to the king (that’s because they never though they would win a revolution)
            20% or so were not sure
            The rest which were mainly the incumbents (office holders) seeking revolution were happy about the idea to separate from England.

            So as you see 60% of the population didn’t want a revolution as much as they wanted to but never though they would of been successful because of many issues almost the same as you 2 p/ricans guys bring up, such as, who would be our allies, will they really help us, outcome of revolution, etc.
            If this world was about not taking risk and not having balls history would of been different now. The Spanish would of never conquer, the English colonies would never gain independence, the French wouldn’t been successful in their revolution, etc.

            There would always be people opposing things especially if they don’t favor them or are not part of it.
            At that time it was know that most people didn’t want to start a war because they were scare of been killed by orders of the king or let without their job, a whole lot of reason.

            My goals for an Mexican city state is not taking power and spread imperialism elsewhere but to have a justice and provide the people with the basic needs of life and let it go from there see where it take us. Unlike the U.S eager for more power and land taking advantage or other countries in order for that gain [Mexican-American war]

            About the oath Mexicans gave to the U.S is really not important because face it is just a dumb swearing that can be broken anytime if there’s something to gain. Is not like something follows them and prevents them from doing what they sworn to 24-7. that’s just a dumb one.

            It will never die out. Most don’t support? LOL that would be because they are not aware of it. But trust me 99% support it they probably don’t get involved for different issues but they accept their beliefs just as any Mexican group that fights for our rights, etc.

            About the web sites. Of course they write negative about MECHA because they have the same idols of Mexicans/Chicanos in the SW rise to power. They only talk about mecha and lopes? What are you talking about though they also talk about how they are concern about the migration that is taking place and the outcome in later future that will result in the separation probably not by succession any time soon like I mention but by our presence inside the system that will benefit our people and make decisions for our interest. That’s what really worries them. Then later the succession. Which American patrol believes could happen after power is been gain politically.
            And that’s what I want a rise within the system to our interest without a war. BUT like I said if war has to happen since the SW would be under our control most likely the federal govern would want to do something about it and something unconstitutional, I don’t know what, but I believe then we talk about war and revolution. How much can I explain…??????????

            It’s funny how this one fool said:
            That is another dream if you are talking about taking it over by political power. Sure, let us say that the southwest, all the states, counties, and cities were run by “chicano” or MEChA members or supporters, do you really think that the rest of the U.S. would just let you separate from the rest of the union without a fight? Remeber the Civil war?
            Let us just say that MEChA would take over. They would have to start taking over properties, homes, businesses, etc, etc, and then move non-chicano or other groups, Anglos (“bolillos”,“hueros”) out of these territories acquired by the new government of Aztlan, do you think that the U.S. would allow that?

            Wars are not about if the enemy allows you to do certain things! Either you think I’m stupid or are you stupid by saying that? The U.S wouldn’t allow a Chicano rule, Black rule, etc. They don’t want to be put out of power, lol. That’s why we are going to be 2 different nations within one because we both one something the other don’t want. And when things like this happen is when conflict occurs. And war revolution or political revolution happens.
            My definition for Political revolution is following the constitution and not overthrowing someone from office just because background or belief. And this would happen someday when our numbers become greater with it our political participation will also. This will happen!!!

            That’s what I seek. A political Revolution that we set our own law and run ourselves and decision that benefit us not the upper white rich bigotry. It will take a while to happen completely but the point is that it’s happening!


            • #36
              Give an opinion, and they call you an idiot!

              Bueno Amigo, vamos aver si me puedes contestar en Español. Yo nunca te sali con nombres y titulos, pero me parece que cuando no te gusta una opinion o una declaracion, tu sales con que soy idiota o estupido. Te dije que eran opiniones y declaraciones mias, como yo veo la situacion de MEChA. Tu sales que soy idiota..hmmm. Bueno "amigo".
              Busca en un "Dictionary", la palabra Loose, pero yo te lo escribo en English ok? Loose; Adjective, looser, loosest, free; slack; not tight; lax; not firmly fixed; lewd; unchaste. Verb; loosed, loosing. untie; detach; discharge; relax; release. Loosely, adverb, loosen, Verb. (The New Webster's Dictionary for writers, Lexicon Publications, 1986, 95 Madison ave., NY, NY).
              Lo que dije fue, en la forma que la usaste, no tenia sentido..the word "loosing" was the incorrect word in the sense you used it. I understand that we sometimes use or type words incorrectly, we are human. I did not say it was spelled wrong. So you calling me an idiot or stupid just shows that you can not have a healthy debate or exchange ideals. Espero que pienses antes de tirar lodo y insultos. Que la pases bien y sigue dando tu opiniones, pero Camarada, sin insultos ok?

              [Edited by LatinoPR on 10th January 2003 at 09:18]


              • #37

                Ok people noticed how he is changing the subject and talking about “Bueno Amigo, vamos aver si me puedes contestar en Español” meaning: “ok my friend, let see if you can answer me in Spanish”.

                That translates, he couldn’t say nothing back from my last post and now is turning the subject around to see if I know Spanish, If not, He would be arguing about how much I have pride for Mexican this and that and I don’t eve know Spanish. Look I know what you trying to do and trust me it will never work. Just like it didn’t work for you to make me believe that this Chicano struggle is not happening. But you know it is. You’re just in the denial stage since you are not part of it. No other minority would want another minority rise to power especially when there’s conflict between those two cultures. They will prefer to be run by whites than the achievement of their fellow minority group. Yes, I do know Spanish I was born in Mexico and came here when I was 7 years old. So trust I know my Spanish. The reason I’m not writing to you in Spanish is because I’m not use of typing in Spanish and will take me long to type what I want to say. Like I mention before I don’t have time to be here forever and check word by word what I type. Pero crème si se y entiendo muy bien el espanol!!!

                I don’t blame you. However, that’s just the way it is. It’s already written and it’s going to happen maybe in 50 or 100 years but it will. The point is that this “movement” is on the surface of many of us and will just grow just like our people are.
                This Political Revolution is on the rise there’s nothing whites can do about it now because like I said it will eventually happen. Doesn’t matter how much border security they manage. The migration would not stop. Even if Mexico economy and standard of living improves like it is, migration will still happen for many reason. And remember the kids-kids of many that are already here.

                Aztlan, since is part of my culture. I truly believe on this issue. Not just for pride but is really true. There’s Aztec ruins that explain this migration that occur from the north to the south. So it’s NOT a myth. We don’t know the exact reason they left. But we do know that they migrated from the north. So the SW is a great part Mexicans/Chicanos history since the great Aztec Empire in Mexico originates from the SW.


                Trust me i could have a good discussion but when fools like you start acting like if you're smarter than the other [maybe you're not consciously], we have a problem. You try to make me look stupid by correcting some words but like i said sorry, i dont have the time to check what i type. If you add close attention to your words you also misspell some. So dont come here correcting me like if you something because you aren't.

                The foundation of the Mexika expansion

                It's all about the....
                Xoxoktik, Iztak, Chichiltik
                [Nahualt words for Green, white, and red]


                • #38
                  Wow this post is really good everyone. Just keep it clean please.

                  Even that the subject don't have to do with the Puerto Rico politics, it reflect a problem that is similar to the Puerto Rican population in major cities.

                  I side with our Mexicans brothers and sisters.

                  First, my brother live in Waco, Texas and he is married with a wonderful Mexican lady. I had meet her family side and I love them more than my own family.

                  Second, while I was in service(US Army), I had many good soldiers under my command, and many were hispanics and the majority of those Mexicans and PR's.

                  Also the best senior rankings appointed over my position, were also Mexicans and PR's.

                  My opinion is the whole SW belongs to Mexico, and they have all the right to get it back.

                  Unfortunately there will be revolution in the process, but I believe it will not be an ethnic war.

                  The war will be between Mexicans and the civilian population of those lands.

                  To prove that, there is right now a militia group patrolling the borders to capture any Mexican crossing the border.

                  What that tells you?

                  These militia is not a government or official group. These are a normal US Citizens that are tired of the illegal population of inmigrants.

                  Now, this post is not talking about that. But in general it have to do with the population of Mexicans in the SW, either legal or illegal.

                  Check this post from the Texas Minutemen web site:

                  Arizona Militia set to patrol border for illegal aliens

                  By Jerry Seper
                  THE WASHINGTON TIMES

                  A former kindergarten teacher who has organized a 600-strong militia in Arizona will station 50 armed militia members on public land this weekend to "protect their country" against an invasion of illegal aliens, warning federal authorities — including President Bush — not to interfere.
                  To continue reading and to see the members replies click here:


                  Here is another:

                  No apprehensions in first militia patrol

                  TOMBSTONE - The Tombstone-based Civil Homeland Defense began patrolling for illegal Mexican border crossers Saturday, but no apprehensions or incidents were reported.

                  Chris Simcox, organizer of the volunteer group and publisher of the Tombstone Tumbleweed, planned to start armed patrols this weekend, including one with invited media today.

                  Simcox left for the patrol early Saturday morning, said Kate Hargrave, assistant editor of the Tumbleweed.
                  To continue reading and to see the members replies click here:


                  Here is some more:

                  At War on the Border

                  Mexico bypassing U.S. sovereignty?
                  Maybe we should forget Saddam for now and go for the real enemy! Just how much more of this kind of BS are we going to keep taking?

                  Borded Militia Targeted By Mexicans
                  Is the citizen border-patrol group formed to defend the U.S. against illegal aliens being targeted for cross-border retribution by opposition groups based in Mexico?

                  600-Strong Militia - AZ Militia To Patrol Border For Illegals Aliens
                  I for one definately Approve of what these Gentlemen are doing! I hope them the best of luck in all of their endeavor's! As to the rule's of the road for their situation, I think there should be NONE! Open season, Posse decision! This could be the ONE to get some thing's rolling "FOR THE PEOPLE", so "LET'S ROLL"!

                  My summary of this:

                  A revolution can't be prevented. It will happen and plenty blood will be shed.

                  Now, will the Mexicans will prevail? I don't know.

                  Unless they start coming armed and bring with them some support from veterans guerrillas out of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua.

                  Will that really happen? Maybe.


                  • #39

                    Mexico and Mexican culture will expand and hopefully justice will be done in the Southwest. I knew a Reies Lopez-Tijerina, a man who wrote "Mi lucha por la tierra" he was born in Texas and wanted to form a movement to take back the land using the courts first through proving that the treatee with Guadalupe Hidalgo with the US government was violated and became null and void. He did intense research and was persecuted by the FBI, he had dogs surrounding his home in a remote part of New Mexico and his children were kidnapped and threatened, etc. The US gov't knows they ripped off the land and even know they have legal issues proving what they did in the past was not legit or legal either. But they have vested interests in retaining that stolen land, and want to control the scenario and they will spill blood to do that too.

                    I can tell you right now, your hostile attitude without any knowledge of the Puerto Rican people's struggles for independence and their continuing struggle to liberate themselves from the USA does not help you Mexicankaoznet, it makes you insensitive, callous and not very bright. You are going to need support from many Latinos in this fight of yours. And why alienate us? It is counterproductive.

                    Why not engage us and be our brother? You only have heart for your Chicano people? That is limiting. Open your horizons Senor Mexicano. Que el mundo es mas amistoso con muchos amigos que con muchos enemigos. We all know who the culprits of most of our problems are. Let us stay focused on the culprits. No crees?



                    • #40

                      Was up Raza any homie out there wanting more information about this struggle and would like to be part of it. Or would like more information or a helping hand I'll try to help any way. Two brains work better than 1. 100+ brains working together will give us great power.


                      Visit my site However "" is curently down and you can find the site at:

                      If you have any trouble just email me. Latez Raza and remember to stay proud, join and help our people in order to gain power.


                      • #41
                        Hi guys! I just want to say that I am Mexican and have never offended a black man or woman. I have never looked at black people with hate or anything. I am really sorry about the bad experiences some people have had here. I am more sorry because minorities keep fighting against each other, instead of uniting against the real enemies (you who they are) that promote racism in the USA. Now, I want to make one thing clear, MEXICANS and MEXICAN-AMERICANS are not the same type of people (culturally speaking). Mexicans-americans are the descendants of mostly uneducated people that came to USA fleeing from poverty, especially in southern mexico. Mexican-americans and their parents are in most cases, not very educated and very ignorant as far as races goes. That's why I acknowledge some racist sentiment among mexican-americans towards blacks, whites, mexicans, chinese, etc. Ignorance is what causes all this, believe me. It's hard fot me to belive one of the posts below that says some old lady told his grandchild to spit on a black man. I am 100% sure that if it indeed happen, that old lady wasn't mexican. It must have been a mexican-american or something else. Old ladies in mexico don't behave that way. I know I will be very criticized for saying this but I am a REAL mexican who has lived in mexico and I do know my people and my culture. It's very sad mexican-americans have damaged our people's image since almost everybody in this country thinks Mexican people are just like the people you see in East Los Angeles. How sad most americans and mexican-americans live in a small world that only extends as far as Tijuana.


                        • #42
                          Mexicans are white : University studies

                          "I would like to clear out that the racism in Mexico between the minority of gapuchines (white european rule) over majority the real Mexicans (mestizos and Indians) is a whole different topic."

                          That's the most stupid thing I've heard since I came to the US. Recent university studies in Mexico have demonstrated the REAL racial composition of Mexicans to be Spanish, Franch, Dutch , German, Chinese as well as indigenous. Surprisingly for most ignorant chicanos and americans, Spanish blood is more prevalent than indian blood. Also, French ancestry was found in most people in northern mexico as well as Dutch in the state of jalisco, guanajuato, etc. For years, american ignorants taughts us that since Mexicans had "brown" skin, they ought to be descended from the indians. Now, it is well known that the Spaniards who colonized mexico were mostly from southern Spain, where people have dark skin, hair and eyes. However, chicano people do show sign of indian ancestry, mainly because their parents come from indian regions in southern mexico. On the contrary, when i go to northern mexico to visit my friends, people look very different. Blue and green eyes, very tall people, etc. are the norm, instead of the exception. This in my case, is due to french blood in the area where I am from, not spanish.


                          • #43
                            I have to agree with the above poster. We should concentrate on other things and not spend all this time talking about this unsavory subject. I knew in an instant that the balck woman who started the thread didn't have a clue about who the real Hispanos are. For her there is no difference between a Venezolano, Columbian, Mexican or whatever. I see the same prejudice against Asians by folks who don't know the differnce between a Korean, a Chinnese, or a Japanese. Then you all got bent out of shape by a acomplejado Mexican who thrashed PR. Next time you hear someone say something nasty about another group simply look at the source. You will almost always find a low quality individual. Racism and discrimination for any other cause is evil and we should not even try to explain it----- It should not be tolerated. Lest face race politics is a huge business in the US and now we are starting to get into that sort of thing. I don't like to talk about this stuff, it is getting real old and it turns my stomach. Listen folks, there will always be some sort of animosity among the diiferent races, that has been the rule in world history. I have been discriminated and I raised hell about it. Don't take any crap from anyone and always present yourself with dignity. As I had posted in the MLK thread one of the pleasant things I remember about my childhood and adolescent years was the fact that we never talked about race. Now it seems the plate de Jour. The nice thing about PR is that one could go anywhere and see the whole rainbow and no one cared. Those were the old days and now they are gone.

                            Los recuerdos suelen
                            Contarte mentiras



                            • #44
                              To Pinky and the Brain...chitlan

                              So you think you can take on the USA? You want to take back WHAT? I very much doubt that! Bro, I live here in Southern Califas, and I've seen what the Latino movement is about. Let me give you some stats; Latinos are No. 1 in the following categories: High School drop-outs, drug use/traffic, prostitution, alcoholism, gang-banging, domestic abuses, scams, you name the crime, and it is here for you. STOP crying about everything that didn't go your way and join the human race. You WILL NOT dominate the SW, the world or anything else. That's another category you're No. 1 in, "CRYBABY" category. Get a job like must of us and get with the program, you and those who think like you, are the ones giving Latinos a bad name. "LA LIBERACION, VIENE CON EDUCACION" EDUCATE!


                              • #45
                                To J-Rod

                                Latinos ARE NOT number 1 in high school drop-outs, drugs, crime, etc. Latin America is full of intellectuals, artists, scientists, highly-educated people with morals. It's very sad ignorant people like you base their concept of Latin America on what you see on TV or on the streets of East LA. Educate! Travel to other countries and see the good things they have. Read Spanish language literature and go see our artists' masterpieces at the museums. You'd be surprised to find out that even common people in latin America are very different to latinos in the US. They have a job, they have strong family values, many of them have a better education than most americans, many can speak more than one language. All of them are proud of being real latinos. It is the descendants of latin-americans born in the US who have the crime,drug, etc. problem and not the Latin-Americans. However, there are many reasons for all the problems they have : poverty, racism, etc. and people like you that are ignorant enough to think that SW latinos are the bad guys instead of the victims. Now, regarding taking back the SW, I believe that land doesn't belong to Mexican-americans who don't relate to mexicans at all. It's the indians or the real mexicans that should have the right to that land. However, I don't think any of them is planning on taking it back. Mexico can survive without the Southwest. Mexican people have the power in their hands with which they work, in their intelligence with which they face their everyday challenges, in their heart with which they embrace immigrants from Europe and central america, in their ideas of a peaceful society that respects other countries and is against war, etc. Mexico is a great country, where racism is almost non-existent, where people work real hard. The only problem is the government, which has stolen the money of the people. That's the only reason Mexico is behind the US. Hopefully someday, a good honest ruler can help us resolve our economic crisis so we don't have to go to the US and have our children become gang members, drug addicts, prostitutes, etc. Hopefully the day will come when we can stay in our country and see our children grow up as educated, non-violent, socially-involved REAL Mexicans ;-)
                                Viva Mexico y Viva Latino-America!!