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  • #31
    Hi guys. I see you are a lively group.

    About the Nephilim stuff, the passage in the New International Version Bible says: "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." Now, I know that we Puerto Ricans colloquially say that everyone is a son of God, but in the use of this phrase among ancient Hebrew speakers it only meant Supernatural Beings. That is what you find in the book of Job, where in chapter 1 verse 6 it says [this is taken from the Revised Standard Version]: "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. " Now, in the Hebrew mind (you know: the Israelites that came out of Egypt into the Promised Land) there was no room for these "sons of God" being gods or deities like the ones you find in Greek mythology, because God [YHWH], who took them out of Egypt, told them that they cannot recognize any other gods (and this is a plain issue from the Ten Commandments Exodus 20:3 - the First Commandment). So the only logical conclusion in the mind of an Israelite reading Genesis is that these "sons of God" are angels.

    Now, one thing that developed later in Judaism (the religion of the Israelites) was the notion that angels cannot get married (hey Jesus himself stated this). So one way they interpret the passage is to consider these "sons of God" as the descendents of Seth (the son of Adam that took the place of Abel after Cain killed him), who were godly (devoted to God) as it is mentioned in Genesis. This one is a good cop out interpretation, that has godly men marrying un-godly women. Thus the notion of sex between angels and women is bypassed. The only problem with this is that why would Nephilim be born to these marriages (and in another part of the Old Testament these guys are referred to as Giants - Numbers 13:33 "We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.")? There would be nothing special about that if they, the Nephilim and their "sons of God" fathers, were ordinary human beings.

    If we follow the passage in Jude that Diocleciano Ayala mentioned, the reason why some angels were imprisoned is: "And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." Jude verses 6 and first part of 7. This text says that in a similar way to those angels Sodom and Gomorrah sinned. What was the type of sin Sodom and Gomorrah had? Sexual. In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah it was unnatural sex - forced rape attempt between men. In the case of the angels imprisoned, it was sex with women, because it was not natural to them (they are spiritual beings, so why should they have any sex with women to begin with?).

    Finally lets go to the reason for the sexual escapades: they found the women irresistible: "When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose." Genesis 6:1,2. However, I will interject here my personal opinion: the main reason some angels married human women was to invalidate the Promise that God gave Eve after she and Adam disobeyed God ["So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." Genesis 3:14,15]. The Promised One who would destroy the Serpent was to be solely the man-child of the woman, and not a son from the natural offspring between man and woman. See here, this points to a woman having a boy without the help of a man; thus virgin birth (Mary and Jesus). So to avoid this event what would angels who followed Satan do? Have sex with women such as to 1) dilute the human gene pool [after many generations everyone would have been a descendent of one of Satan's angels one way or the other; o como dicen en la Isla el que no tiene de india tiene de mandinga], and 2) any significant human male born would only be an ally to the Serpent and not an enemy of the Serpent.

    One can ask: how can angels and women have sex, aren't angels spirits? Good questions. I don't know much about the physiology of angels (who knows? - only God), but in other parts of the Old Testament it is written that angels could eat (Genesis 18:1-8), in the next chapter the men of Sodom-Gomorrah tried raping these same angels, and in another part of Genesis Jacob spends the night wrestling the Angel of the Lord. Thus they had to have a physical component. Now, they were not little green men, otherwise Abraham, Lot, Jacob and many others would have been scared to death; they looked like ordinary men [there is no mention of female angels in the entire Bible].

    That is the logic that Mama-Moises tried to explain.

    How about UFO's and the Bible. That is another story. But this much I can tell you now: when the Apostle John was exiled to the island called Patmos by the Roman Emperor Domitian in AD 90+ for preaching about Jesus, Jesus appeared to John and gave him the Revelation (Jesus told John to write down everything he saw, Revelation 1:11), this elderly Apostle saw an interesting set of creatures emanate from the mouths of the Dragon (Satan), the Beast (the Anti-Christ) and the False Prophet: Revelation 16:13,14 "Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty." These spirits looked like frogs. Now place yourself in the sandals of an old man from the first century AD and show him some of the alleged pictures of aliens from modern ufology: don't they look like frogs? The large dark eyes, the web three or four digit hands, the greenish skin, the small slit noses... You get the picture. When the Anti-Christ plans his battle of Armageddon you will not see him saying with his own mouth that the world should unite to fight against Jesus (who in their right mind would dare to fight Jesus?). But if you can prove that the planet Earth is about to be invaded by aliens, I tell you the world would unite in no time. No wonder Hollywood makes a movie like Independence Day (funny that the huge mother ships were shrouded by the clouds; where have I heard "coming in the clouds of heaven"?). Since when has Hollywood been a good source of spiritual stuff that does not contradict the Bible? Even every time Hollywood makes a movie about the Bible itself they take something out or put something in which is not in the Bible (they call it dramatic license). If that is with the Bible stories, do you think that Hollywood would be more truthful about anything else?


    • #32


      • #33
        God Bless You All! Cagueno, that's deep stuff! I'm always digging in the Bible, then asking questions in my prayers. The other night I dreamed that Jesus was talking to me saying that I'll know the answers in due time. Spooky, ah! We have to understand that when this men of God wrote, the revelations were according to what they understood in their time. If Jesus will reveal us somethings now, I guess, will be with computers, TV, etc. LUV MamaMoses


        • #34
          Hello, again. I saw the Noah's Ark movie on TV, to me was a comedy, I laugh! Do you watch "Touch by an Angel"? The writers, two ladies, are Christians, D.Reese in a Pastor in LA. If you notice they always try to say somethings about God, but apparently they can't go to deep, otherwise, the none believers will make an issue, I think! God Bless You, MamaMoses


          • #35

            About God speaking through modern means - there is a limit. With any new physical medium of communication there come new opportunities to reach more people faster. 500 years ago the printing press was invented and of all a sudden the Bible was within the reach of the common people not just the clerics. However, the medium itself is not the creator of the vital information. The same technology used to print Bibles is used to print Penthouse and Playboy.

            What is important is that we keep in mind that if God spoke 2000 years ago He doesn't just change his mind like you or I would. Hey, to Him who made the entire universe with its billions of galaxies, never mind trillions of stars like our sun, computers are as puny and antiquated as the Taino drawings at Tibes. Hey, He sees us in 3D, all of us at the same time (store security cameras can't even do that), and He knows what we think; and because He is not bound by time He can see what we will individually do a week from now and even further. So to Reveal to an old man more than 80 years old what will happen in the end of the world as we know it [bear in mind that He never told John that the world will explode, or that some jerk in the White House is going to press the red button and snuff us out...] it is a piece of cake.

            Also MamaMoses, we gotta be careful with what we read: there are many people now writing all kinds of things that are not true, either because they are crazy, or because they want to make money out of our gullability, or because they are truly inspired by evil. That is why it is good to go to a source of information that is totally true, the Bible, and use it to compare with the information out there.

            Our challenge is to read the Bible, try with all our strength to understand it, obey what it commands, and believe what it promises and reveals. Big task, but not impossible.


            • #36
              can anyone teach me how to read the bible, so that i could understan it. a few times i did start to read it but i kept falling asleep. i would really want to read it to understand it. thank you for understanding.
              peace out.


              • #37
                How to read the Bible?

                Start with buying a modern translation. The King James is boring, and the language is too Shakespeare. The Bible was not written in Old English by Moses and Matthew and Paul, but in Hebrew and Greek (with Daniel written in Aramaic, which is similar to Hebrew, like Portuguese is similar to Spanish).

                Some translations to buy: The NIV (New International Version), the Living Translation, and the Good News Bible. Go to a Bible bookstore and purchase one of these translations. They are written in modern English and they are easy to read. If you prefer Spanish I would recommend the "Dios Habla Hoy" version, cause the Reina Valera is just the same as the King James, you have to have a college degree to understand it.

                If I were you I would start reading Bible passages that are as smooth as a Novel: the 1st and 2nd Samuel, then followed by 1st and 2nd Kings (all of these are in the Old Testament). In the New Testament read the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts, which are an easier reading.

                Once you start reading the Bible go to the Bible bookstore and purchase an illustrated dictionary of the Bible, this will help in understanding some details on what the people in those days ate and the houses they lived. The Bible has a message applicable to all the ages including ours, but historical facts such as that the Jewish weddings lasted a week (compared to our modern weddings which only occur in one day) will help you understand some events in the Bible.

                And ask the Holy Spirit for help. When I started reading the Bible I also got sleepy. I never got sleepy reading novels, and any other literature. There is a real spirit world out there, and once you start reading the Bible you will get all kinds of spiritual opposition. That is why asking God for help is necessary.

                May God grant you to start reading the Bible without more troubles.


                • #38
                  Before I begin to read my Bible I always pray that the Lord guides me and helps me to understand what Im about to read. Yes, I use to get sleepy or bored on reading the bible, But I learned to be patient and pray before doing so. Trying praying my friend before reading the bible. Cuidate CaliRican Eda


                  • #39
                    This is great! I too need to learn how to "read" the bible. Everytime I pick it up I read it like a book and not for what it is. You guys have given a lot of excellent advice. I will try and see how it goes. Thanks to the wonderful people in this forum!


                    • #40
                      These are some interesting comments about
                      the Bible; which in my opinion, is the most
                      interpreted and mis-interpreted book ever written. I truly believe in the apostle's
                      creed, where it begins with "There is only
                      One God"... the foundation of all Religions
                      suffice ethnic and cultural differences. My
                      only concern is that although Religious
                      worship is responsible for a more civilized
                      society today, it continues to be used for
                      political power and the micro-managing of
                      peoples lives. Issues such as abortion,
                      women priesthood, gays, gambling( besides
                      Bingo) and prostitution remain at the forefront. Differences in Religion,
                      denominations included, which many times
                      separate people socially continue to be ignored. If Church and Religious Leaders
                      were to peacefully reconcile 'fragile'
                      differences, there would be less Religious
                      wars, and discrimination for all of us to
                      bear witness. This I believe would focus
                      our attention to issues which would enhance
                      the lives of all people who wish to take
                      advantage of greater opportunites which
                      would result from this basic course of action. What is your opinion?

                      Working to create greater
                      Harmony and Success between all God loving people regardless of Individual Faith...


                      • #41
                        About Genesis 6:4 (Applying verses 1 thru 4)
                        From the Life Application Bible (NIV)
                        Some people have thought that the "sons of God" were fallen angels. But the "sons of God" were probably not angels, because angels do not marry or reproduce (Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25.) Some scholars believe this phrase refers to the descendants of Seth who intermarried with Cain's evil descendants (the daughters of men"). This would have weakend the good influence of the faithful and increased moral depravity in the world, resulting in an explosion of evil. Nephilim refers to a powerful race of giants.

                        Hope this is helpful
                        God bless


                        • #42
                          hello everyone, i was just passing through and accidentally came upon this board. i would like to say it is encouraging to see a discussion like this.