Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tough Questions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tough Questions

    Alright people!

    Anyone can spew forth anecdotes and modern day parables. How about some serious discussion on matters not touched by most religious conversations. Some tough questions that make you think. If at all possible, try to use quotes from whatever source in question to reinforce your answers.

    Riddle Me This: Being boricuas, we've each got a fraction (the numerators and denominators different for each of us) of indian ancestry. What happens, or should I say happened, to the heathen souls of our taino ancestry who died way before the white man came along with the words of God?

  • #2
    Good one Loco:

    I hope they are in Taino heaven waiting for the day of "Final Judgement". At which time, the pearly gates of heaven will be opened to all of the Imperialistic Colonizers, who pillaged, ransacked, raped, murdered and destroyed them. This is of course assuming that those conquistadores have repented and sought God's forgiveness
    somewhere along the line.

    You see loco - just like in Hollywood - there's always a happy ending.
    Que Viva Puerto Rico Libre.

    Comment


    • #3
      loco,
      my bible says that Christ died for all. for those that came before His mission was fulfilled here on earth and for those whe came after. this included our ancestors...all the way back to adam and eve.

      and since GOD is the final Judge, i just trust in Him to be fair and loving...and i leave the decision up to Him.

      ------------------
      Nicoletta
      ;oD


      Nicoletta
      ;oD

      Comment


      • #4
        I remember sitting in church and hearing the pastor say that our God can be an angry god as well as a jealous god (hence the first commandment.) What it all boils down to is: what is the criteria for salvation? According to the New Testament, it's repenting of your sins and giving your heart to Jesus, right? How can you repent of sins you don't know are sins and accept Jesus as your saviour when you don't even know who Jesus was or what you need to be saved from? Our ancestors worshipped nature, as most native american cultures did. The word hurricane comes from the ancient Puerto Rican god of the winds (or was it storms?), Juracán. That was a clear violation of the first commandment.

        Is that your brain cells I hear sizzling?

        Also, what was the criteria for salvation before the New Testament? Following the Ten Commandments?

        [This message has been edited by locostyle (edited 02 April 2000).]

        Comment


        • #5
          You just stated the judgement yourself: Worship of Nature is IDOLATRY. Why worship what was created when we can worship Him Who Created nature?

          Anyway, maybe you have never read the Bible, so I will help you a little.

          Paul's Letter to the Romans, Chapter 1, verses 18 to 32:
          The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

          Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

          -------------------------------


          About the Native Americans not knowing the Truth, God is not unjust: He will Judge human beings based on what they know, not what they don't know: <<Indeed, when Non-Jews, who do not have the Law (Bible), do by nature things required by the Law, they are a Law for themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the requirements of the Law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. Romans 2.14,15>>

          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

          About Old Testament Israelites, all of whom died before Jesus was born, they all died IN HOPE OF THE COMING MESSIAH [JESUS] <<1 Peter 1.10-12>>. It is a logical conclusion from reading the New Testament that they all entered Heaven only after Jesus died on the Cross. That is why when Jesus said the story about Lazarus and the Rich Man, who died before Jesus' own Death, when both died they were within sight of each other (and within shouting distance), but there was a Deep Chasm splitting the two places up so that no one could travel from one side to the other. However, After Jesus Died and Ressurrected, we find Paul stating that He would rather die to be with Jesus, therefore, after the Cross all believers in Jesus do go to Heaven to be with Jesus.

          What happens then to a Native American in the Amazon Jungles of today? I don't know, nor the Bible says anything clear. I personally believe that if he sought the Truth with all his heart and still did not find Jesus on this side of Eternity, he will find Jesus on the other side to apply the Salvation [for no one can enter Heaven by good deeds alone, Romans 3.23].

          The BIG PROBLEM is not the guy who never heard the Good News, but the guy and gal who after hearing the Good News still REJECT IT. There is no Second Chance for Rejecting Salvation: <<How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? - Hebrews 2.3>>. You will do well to read the entire Letter to the Hebrews, there you will see clearly that no one who rejects on purpose Jesus and his death will be saved. <<If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. - Hebrews 10.26,27>> Things to ponder...

          ------------------
          Manuel Alonso

          Comment


          • #6
            Diaaaantre chacho!

            Were your fingers hurting after all of that typing? I already knew that nature worship is considered idolatry, but I was keeping it simple for the layperson. As for Romans 2:14&15, that talks about the gentile who does as the bible says. My question refers to those who didn't naturally do as the bible says and could not possibly have crossed paths with anyone to inform him of his misdeeds.

            Comment


            • #7
              Man, read it, it is answered there too.

              ------------------
              desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa
              desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa: Manuel Alonso "El Jíbaro"

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi there! The bible says: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in wich all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice; and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28,29). People did know the God commadments and obey, they will get everlasting life. But, people that don't know, God's commandments and because of that they do wrong things, will get a chance. What kind of chance? Like El Jíbaro said, that persons will get a just judge, based on what they know.

                Remember: "He that does not love has not come to know God, because GOD IS LOVE"
                (1 John 4:8). Yes, God love all of us, and will be just with each of us, at his time.

                JOEYz11
                JOFCRE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Gracias Jose,

                  That was what I was looking for. Now, on to another topic. Is Catholicism truly a "christian" faith? (I put christian in quotes because the term has kind of lost its meaning. Go into a strip club or a crack house and you'll find people confessing to be christians there.)

                  When I was young, I remember my friend asking me if I could go to church with her and her family. When I asked Mami, she said no based on the fact that they were catholic. I argued using the point that catholics were the best kind of christians (I was about 7 or 8 at the time). She rebutted with, "HAH! They're the worst kind!" I also remember, at another friend's house, reading anti-catholic comics published by the same tracts most churches use to witness to non-believers.

                  Catholics believe you can pray to the saints. Isn't that idolatry? Absolution of sin can be obtained only through a priest. Yet the Bible clearly states that no man can come to the father but by Jesus. The notion of the Pope being infallible seems to go against "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

                  What are your views on this topic?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am a Pentecostal, so I would be inclined to say they are not. But Catholics are Christian, at least by name. I don't doubt that many of them who truly follow Jesus and do not willfully practice idolatry will show up in Heaven. Just as many Pentecostals do not worship "saints", but worship Pentecostal leaders. Jesus will judge each Christian Church based on their faithfulness to Him and His Word. Some big names on earth will show up as little names in Heaven (1 Corinthians 3.11-15), or not show up at all.

                    Some Churches are more faithful to Christ's Word than others. No Church is Completely Perfect, not even one. Only Jesus is Completely Perfect in every way. That is why we go to Heaven based on what He did for us by dying on the cross, and not by the name of the Church we are members of, or by how Perfect we are.

                    ------------------
                    desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa
                    desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa: Manuel Alonso "El Jíbaro"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      loco...post the new topic so we can get down on this one. Catholisism is an interesting topic.

                      ------------------
                      Nicoletta
                      ;oD


                      Nicoletta
                      ;oD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nicki,

                        I'm afraid I didn't quite understand your last post. If you think this topic is interesting, why post another? Also, feel free to drop down questions yourselves. No matter how dumb you think the question is...

                        There's always a stupider one. hehe.

                        No, seriously mi gente, post what you feel you need answered. And don't feel like you have to limit yourselves to questions on Christianity, either. This is, after all, an open forum.

                        The only restriction I will place here is to offensive behavior. I have seen a few of these topics turn into two or three people going back and forth calling each other names like it was the third grade again.

                        Anyway, I've strayed from my purpose long enough. I have here the link to the anti-catholic propaganda I spoke of yesterday. This is the actual tract. Unfortunately, they won't display the comic online (I'm too cheap to order it right now. hehe). The Alberto series (that's what it is called) is located in the comics section. you'll see it on the sidebar. Well, let me shut up now.
                        http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

                        I like these smilies.

                        [This message has been edited by locostyle (edited 06 April 2000).]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Locostyle:

                          Hi! Is very nice know, that out there are people interest in God, life and many other good things.

                          This topic of catholics is a good one. All this religion catholic and protestant, say:
                          "We have the truth". This aseveration, remind me, Mathew 7:15-20 : "Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by theirs fruits you will recognize those men."
                          These mean that many religions, preach the word of God, but act completely diferent of what they preach ("Predican la moral en calsoncillos".)

                          Mathew chapter seven still saying: "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord', did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perfom many powerful works in your name? And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness" (versicles 21-23).

                          There are many people sincere, in these religions, but is a combination of faith and work, to be acept by God. Is not the name of a religion, the thoughts of the Pope, the thoughs of my spiritual leader; is YOU can make the diference. Our words have to be: "To do your will, O my God, I have delighted, And your law is whitin my inward parts" (Psalms 40:8).

                          Love and respect,
                          JOEYz11
                          JOFCRE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Loco:

                            The Alberto series is allot of hype, and little on substance. From all my research less than half of it is true.

                            The Catholic Church has done many idiotic things throught the centuries, but they remain that: IDIOTIC, not systematic efforts to destroy the truth per se. The best example itself is the New Testament. The New Testament is full of facts that contradict official Catholic Teachings, and yet the Catholic Church did not destroy it (though it tried to keep it from the hands of the people).


                            Example of facts in the New Testament that contradict common Catholic practices:

                            1 Timothy 2.5 Jesus is the only mediator between people and God, not Mary or any other saint.

                            1 Corithians 9.5 The Apostle Paul had the right to go about preaching accompanied by a Christian wife just like the Apostle Peter [a.k.a, Cephas] did, but he did not exercised that right. This shows that Celibacy was not practiced by the Apostles, nor it was a requirement to be a church Pastor.

                            1 Timothy 3.2 and Titus 1.6 Church leaders must be married. Therefore Celibacy is out, and marriage is a must.

                            In fact, the Eastern Orthodox Churches (Russian, Coptic, Syrian, Ukrainian, Greek, etc..), that are as old, and even older than the Church of Rome, allow their priests to get married, and in some cases require them to be married.

                            Ephesians 1.10,22 The Bishop of Rome [the Pope] is not the Head of the Church, Jesus is.

                            1 Peter 2.4-9 Peter himself says that he is not the Corner Stone of the Church, only Jesus is that Corner Stone. Peter also adds that all of us who follow Christ are stones that are being built on top of the Corner Stone.

                            Well, I am stopping here, got get back to work. Plus, I am in no way interested in debating Catholicism, since as long as you and I are firm believers in Jesus we are brothers. And I must add, that there are Catholics who truly have shown to be followers of Jesus, like Mother Theresa in Calcutta, and others. Therefore, this business of arguing who is and who isn't is not leading anywhere but to give grounds to Non-Christians to try to make it seem that the Gospel is not true.

                            ------------------
                            desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa
                            desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa: Manuel Alonso "El Jíbaro"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              loco...how did you know my nickname was nikki? prolly just a guess. cool.

                              um, i was saying that "Catholisism" is a big topic. we could make another posting and talk about that issue there. but this is fine. i would have done it myself, but i didn't want to steal your idea.


                              ------------------
                              Nicoletta
                              ;oD


                              Nicoletta
                              ;oD

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X