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  • #31
    Another Leti

    Originally posted by Leticia_g
    I notice that you can't have a discussion without trying to bring someone down or throwing some type of degrading comment.
    Leti... Please tell that to Eddie and Camano... Eddie uses foul language to describe anyone exposing his bankrupt "Red" and godless religion. Camano, calls every Estadista, "inept," "Uncle Tom," etc. If you feel I do that then why don't you call them on the carpet since they uniquivocally and constantly do it to us Estadistas who love our Puerto Rico as much or more than they do! Tell us, Leti.

    First of all, stick to issues. Bring your opinion in and back it if you can with concrete information, when you resort to name calling or any of that sort you are undermining your opinion.
    [b]Leti, I think you are undergoing "selective reticular hearing." What is that? It is when you see only what you want to see. We filter out what we "subconsciously" don't want to see. I do stick to the issues, Leti. I also expose the fallacy and the connecting presuppositions underlying the issues. Most people don't realize that atheism and relative morals is very key to how a political process looks like. I don't know if you are a hard-core Berrios and Bras lover but if you really knew what they truly believe in their ethics and morals you would be pretty scared of letting them have any political positions. It is called "character" which underlies all our decisions. Another way of saying this is that your "values" seep through your decisions. If this is difficult for you to understand, I will be most glad to further elucidate, Leti.
    See? I stick to your issues here? Why is it that Eddie and Camano do not answer Estadista questions from us? They do not stick to the issues we posit. That is a double standard, wouldn't you say?
    [b]

    Comment


    • #32
      Lookie Leti!

      Leti,

      Let me help you break out of your "reticular obstruction" that does not permit you to see Eddie's true colors:

      Eddie said in another post:
      ...Note how that FOOL OF AN ANTICHRIST SIDESTEPPED what I posted as evidence proving that I DID NOT LIE, BUT HAD DERIVED WHAT I SAID FROM A REPUTABLE SOURCE. And where did he put his 'pata' in, why into a schoolyard of children at recess, where he made up the bullcrap about a bully and some girls. What a fanatical conservative, rightwing NUTCASE, el a.r./el jibby is.

      This is tame compared to some of the other stuff he has said previously. Could it be that Eddie hates Estadistas and especially those that rip off the fake veneer he wears? When a conservative points out Eddie's fangs, Eddie then starts to thrash and foam at the mouth. Leti (and Suki) is that descriptive of self-mastery (as atheists boast) and openness to other viewpoints? Tell us Leti (and Suki).

      Comment


      • #33
        This Post is for Eddie more than it is for anyone else but hopefully it will clarify

        Some of your lack of logic Another Rican.

        Eddie does not believe in God or in religionist notions of who created the universe. He has been crystal clear on this. He thinks God is an excuse used by religionists to try to keep the working masses from addressing down to earth problems. Like bad working conditions and political oppression (that usually goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic oppression). He is a scientific socialist. He has said it a million times. Eddie also is an older gentleman I think maybe in his eighties.

        Sometime during his long life he became a Scientific Socialist and for him to do that in a society as pro-Capitalistic and profit driven and CHRISTIAN as this Puerto Rican society and USA society he knew he was not representing the majority opinion and world view and would be getting severe criticisms as all people that you Another Rican should be aware of from the MORAL MAJORITY.

        He survived the 1950's McCarthy era of smoking out the "commies", people calling him nuts, crazy, the devil, anti-Christ and who knows what else for his beliefs. Do you honestly think that at this juncture of his existence he is gonna get up and say "Hallelujah, Another Rican hath arrived and shown me the light of his God Fearing PNP ways and I am redeemed!!!".....You are smarter than that Another Rican and know Eddie will not be changing his opinions or thoughts or essential philosophies at this point in his life. I know perfectly why he is on pr.com and why he is a consistent member and writer on this forum. To tell you the truth it takes a certain amount of tencity and gumption to continue to hold on to beliefs others are constantly attacking and belonging to a fairly small group of followers. I know why he does it. I can't help my feelings for him. He probably thinks I am some idiot religionist woman wasting time on the unknowable when reality (concrete reality is a much more important endeavor to be engaged in for my limited time on Earth). My mother thinks many scientific socialists talk a lot about changing society but they do it within an elite group and scoff at the masses. Treating people who are not readers of heavy tomes on Communism like inferiors. And living in contradiction of their essential premises. Eddie is not one of the contradictors ( I don't share his views, neither does Voice and many others, but Eddie respects people who use their head, the rest are titeres to him and I do not have to guess where he places you Another Rican).

        He has lived an era and a time and a place. His choices have been weighty and difficult and his sacrifices long. He does not respect you Another Rican. Why should he? You are not here to show a shining example of Christian love and faith and acceptance. You are mixing worldly stuff like Politics "tumba cabeza ideologica" and religion "spiritual transcendence" and you do it Another Rican because you think of independentistas and commies and etc. as a threat to Puerto Rican society and freedom and etc.

        Another Rican, I really think you do not come arguing with Eddie to make him a better person. Lol. You know why you do it. I don't have to tell you. Just don't play the innocent and say "Looky Leti and Suki". You want every Rican on planet earth to belong to your religion, your political party and your way of thinking? I got news buddy....it aint gonna happen. I think statehood is not only not on the USA's agenda. But I don't believe in your fundamentalist Christian stuff either. And if you start saying I am wrong and you are right. Then alla tu. Judging people is not changing them. And what we are left with is unproductive and stupid name calling and mudslinging. Eddie does not care what you think. And you have dialogued a lot with my mother and I happen to agree with her that you have very little of Christian and a whole lot of ego. If negroes in the slave days thought the way you do now about "the Massa in the big house" (afterall all of us have Masters) slavery would never have come to an end for the African Americans in this country. Let the Gringos run the show....they are faster, stronger, bigger and smarter than us and we are weak and corrupt and evil and low. YOU ARE THE SLAVE ANOTHER RICAN and stop throwing a tantrum when the freed negroes like Moses, Harriet Tubman surely but slowly start taking the slaves off the plantation and into a new day.

        You might think a benevolent Master is best and silk clothes and golden cages and house negroe meals are worth the lack of decision making and lack of respect for a nation who culturally is distinct and should be let go because they KNOW BEST. I have too much faith in a fair God who says I give you freedom yet you reject it? Why? For trinkets, and security? And Nacionalista 's quote from Ben Franklin on his sig is right. Those who fear risking security for essential liberty deserve neither liberty or security. That applies to you perfectly Another Rican.

        Suki.

        Comment


        • #34
          Another Rican



          You may accuse Eddie of placing derrogatory comments on the topic but if you go back and read all the postings you were the one that had to change th etopic and in your opinion include Eddie and Camano as examples to your statemnts. In using them as example all you could think of is defaming them. The facts are there and all you have to do is read your postings. People do defend themself, and rightly so. I still feel that respect is earned. If in every topic you get into to all you can do is use references in a degrading manner of other people here then who is the one instigating all the derrogatory comments. Whether you respect Eddie and Camano or not, they have the right to there own individuality. Whatever their belief it does not make them as you claim a communist, if any one is showing naiveness is you by constantly trying to attack people personally.

          Comment


          • #35
            LET'S STOP ALL THAT NONSENSE

            When Puerto Rico WAS Invated by Cuba, the Puertorican's were feeling victims and...helpless. If it wasn't for "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" Cuba would had claim the Island of Puerto Rico their own...and thats that. Puerto Rico depends 100% on USA for all the financial support and well being of the Island in general Including defending the Island because Puerto Rico does NOT have its own army nor fire power of any kind to defend its self from any enemy. Cuba has its own army and they also have military fire-power to over come Puerto Rico 100 times over. It also looks and feels as if the people of PR are FREE! FREE? Free of what? The Government of PR has to do and must do exactly as told by the American Government or else WE the Puertorican's risk losing everything the USA has been and is still giving us for years. The Government of PR CAN'T (Can Not) do anything it pleases without written permission of the USA Government. I don't care what anyone say's because we are living it and right now no one is complaining so why come up with issue's that really makes no sense whatsoever? If PR really wants to become a totally Independent Island and NOT a State, thay can bet are extremely scared to take that step due to losing all the benefits the USA is giving. The Dominican Republic is an Independent "COUNTRY" and the Island along with its people aren't dying...or are they? We can also do the same ONLY if we want...but unfortunately they don't!
            GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT.TRUE SUCCESS IS WHEN PLANNING MEETS OPPORTUNITY! MEET LOVE HALF WAY AND THE JOURNEY WILL BE AN UNFORGETTABLE YET FULL OF HAPPINESS AND EVERLASTING ONE

            Comment


            • #36
              Cuba invaded Puerto Rico?

              Saludos Netlee,

              Can you please point me in the right direction on where you got information that Cuba invaded Puerto Rico? There was a plan to help liberate Puerto Rico when Cuba would had obtained independence from Spain, but you know the rest. Even Simon Bolivar had plans, but was stopped from carrying out due to the pressure he got from the U.S. Government. Yes, you are right, not many in the island complain about the situation because they are worried about surviving and making a buck. Our very lives are affected by the political status we have, but I do not want to go into that now, many threads have pointed that out. Have a good day

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: This Post is for Eddie more than it is for anyone else but hopefully it will clarify

                Originally posted by Suki


                Sometime during his long life he became a Scientific Socialist and for him to do that in a society as pro-Capitalistic and profit driven and CHRISTIAN as this Puerto Rican society and USA society he knew he was not representing the majority opinion and world view and would be getting severe criticisms as all people that you Another Rican should be aware of from the MORAL MAJORITY.

                Suki.

                [/B]
                Suki, if you believe the misinformation that is published daily in the extremely Liberal-dominated media, about the Puertorrique/nos and the American people, then regretfully you do not know me, nor what is deeply in the hearts of the Boricuas and Americans, nor what is deeply in the hearts of the People of the World Community.

                Let me tell you one thing, and that is, that all the aformentioned People have seen the dawn and it is red, and in the depths of their hearts they are communists. Also that strategy and tactics by the People require that they react seemingly in deference to all that propaganda and sublimal projection, so that they can survive to struggle another day for what is in their hearts. Hence, they lose battles from time to time, but still remain as the masses that provide the material weapon of scientific socialism, similarly like scientific socialism remains the intellectual weapon of the masses.

                Be not deceived in your strongest Liberalism, Suki, even though you may never understand such scientific socialism, its masses and leaders. The People have lost some battles, but I assure you as a scientific prediction based on statistical coefficiency that the People will in the end win the war against all who make trouble, make trouble again, and make trouble until their doom!

                HACIA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE BORICUAS,
                EddieR

                E.1: TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK - V.I. Lenin

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Re: This Post is for Eddie more than it is for anyone else but hopefully it will clarify

                  [QUOTE]Originally posted by Eddier1
                  Originally posted by Suki


                  Sometime during his long life he became a Scientific Socialist and for him to do that in a society as pro-Capitalistic and profit driven and CHRISTIAN as this Puerto Rican society and USA society he knew he was not representing the majority opinion and world view and would be getting severe criticisms as all people that you Another Rican should be aware of from the MORAL MAJORITY.

                  Suki.
                  Suki, if you believe the misinformation that is published daily in the extremely Liberal-dominated media, about the Puertorrique/nos and the American people, then regretfully you do not know me, nor what is deeply in the hearts of the Boricuas and Americans, nor what is deeply in the hearts of the People of the World Community.

                  Suki: Dearest Eddie. It seems you don't know me either. Lol. It is regretful that you would think I am some liberal still. I don't believe anything the media liberal or conservative say about what "the majority feel or believe" it is all false projection of what the owners of the media want people to think. People are too busy trying to keep their heads above water on many fronts to analyze anything in terms of liberal, conservative, communist, fascist. What people want is freedom and respect. Freedom from debt, from poverty and misery and ignorance and pain. Freedom from being slaves to material possesions and economic pressures, from social ills and lacks from everything that keeps people from betterment and improvement. Yet people in this first world, are conditioned to consume and to parrot a lot of stuff they hear circulating around sin analizar mucho...lol. I wish you would tell me why you think the dawn is red? If you believe like I do, that eventually a broken society must be done in and start anew through the red hot fires of change and a new beginning then I understand. People fear Change Eddie. They really do. Fear of losing what little they have. And the rich and the mighty plant that fear in the ones who are not rich and mighty so they may remain in their positions. Unfortunately when you don't give a damn about your neighbor or the ones with no "power" (this is false but I must use it), then the confrontation is inevitable. I wish you would clarify for me what you mean about everyone having the red dawn inside. I think to know that one statement, then I would understand you. And you are worth everything in the world to get to understand. If you wish not to explain that is fine. I can imagine what you think, (it might not be accurate but atleast I could guess).

                  Let me tell you one thing, and that is, that all the aformentioned People have seen the dawn and it is red, and in the depths of their hearts they are communists. Also that strategy and tactics by the People require that they react seemingly in deference to all that propaganda and sublimal projection, so that they can survive to struggle another day for what is in their hearts. Hence, they lose battles from time to time, but still remain as the masses that provide the material weapon of scientific socialism, similarly like scientific socialism remains the intellectual weapon of the masses.

                  Suki: If you mean the disenfranchised....you are quite right. Gente fastidiada will have their day and will get justice. No matter how much the selfish and the exclusive would like to hold on to their positions. Lol. The system has established its character and in it is their doom. Whether now or later. In that you have transendence. Smart man as always. Lol.

                  Be not deceived in your strongest Liberalism, Suki, even though you may never understand such scientific socialism, its masses and leaders. The People have lost some battles, but I assure you as a scientific prediction based on statistical coefficiency that the People will in the end win the war against all who make trouble, make trouble again, and make trouble until their doom!

                  Suki:I am deceived?? I admit to occasional bouts of pessism and discouragement about people in general. But I always see it as transitory and my usual faith comes back. It might not be based in the solidity of your objective stance Eddie but it certainly never fails me in times of crisis and critical decisions. I never knew I was a liberal. Lol. Please explain to me in YOUR own words (privately if you like) what is scientific socialism in its most distilled sense? I have a grasp of basic stuff but the details and the experiences that you have I can't understand, in a dry sense, in your experience sense I could understand it.

                  Suki: I always knew you were a complex man Eddier but I always knew you are an optimist and a philosopher and a lover of beauty in music, art poetry and other things....lol. I wish you could just plainly explain to me what your deepest ideology entails. I know I could explain my deepest held beliefs to you in a way you could understand. You are so bright at understanding what others only get a glimpse at. I am deceived.....I wish you would tell me why in which way. I think maybe because I let my emotions interfere with my logic and sense of the concrete. Or maybe it is my statement of any belief system works as long as you are committed to it. I said that in the most general sense and not meaning to state that all beliefs are functional or even rational. I meant to say that to the believer in that moment in time it is convincing. That it reflects objective truth or fuctionality....no. Lol.

                  All I can tell you Eddie is I find you to have a lot more intelligence, experiences and convictions within a political standpoint than I have. I love your mind and your steadfast dedication to your cause. I don't know what it has cost you to keep your eyes on your prize. But you sure are an asset to my life. There is only one destiny for humanity and I have a feeling when you explain Red dawn to me....It might match some of my "religionist notions". Regardless, you have had a victorious life Eddier. En eso no hay ni una gota de duda.

                  I have to be completely and utterly honest with you Eddie. I could listen to you forever and never get bored. I could read every post of yours and see something new. (except the ones in which you just castigate the opposition). Lol. My mother only sees a certain dogmatism in you and reserved nature which she finds ineffective in communicating with people. That is her perception and she is very bright and much more than words on paper or postings in electronic space can contain. But I perceive you totally differently. For some strange reason. I see a lot of depth. Strength. Absolute resolution. And conviction. And many other things. It all coalesces into a person who is unique, yet familiar, and at the same time I find arresting in every sense. I don't know who you think I am Eddie. My soul tells me I am a writer. And a creative person and a lover of history. Politics I find too tainted with viciousness, ambition and ego at times. You the individual are a perfect vehicle to understanding what Scientific Socialism is. I live for knowledge Eddie....even though my time is limited. (Too many mundane matters to attend to in life). You are so interesting to me on all levels....I hope I do not cause you discomfort or embarassment. You are a cool cucumber anyway....not like Papotito...lol. Take care Dearest Eddie.

                  Suki

                  P.S. Ya eres victorioso Eduardo en todos los sentidos. Y saludos calidos boricuas

                  [Edited by Suki on 29th November 2002 at 06:25]

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Re: Re: This Post is for Eddie more than it is for anyone else but hopefully it will clarify


                    Suki, my time is limited also, and since we have been through all of this before, a rehash is the last thing that is needed.

                    Very well, you said in your latest that I am 'victorioso'. And, of course, that is true. So, therefore, I bid you farewell, and good luck, and may you do good work!

                    Sincerely,
                    EddieR
                    E.1: TWO STEPS FORWARD, ONE STEP BACK - V.I. Lenin

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Re: Re: Re: This Post is for Eddie more than it is for anyone else but hopefully it will clarify

                      Originally posted by Eddier1

                      Suki, my time is limited also, and since we have been through all of this before, a rehash is the last thing that is needed.

                      Very well, you said in your latest that I am 'victorioso'. And, of course, that is true. So, therefore, I bid you farewell, and good luck, and may you do good work!

                      Sincerely,
                      EddieR
                      Here is a song by Juan Luis Guerra (big smile) it reminds me of you...

                      And another little refran from a song....

                      Todas las voces, todas...todas las manos, todas....toda la sangre puede ser cancion en el viento....

                      Senales de Humo by Juan Luis Guerra

                      Te mando senales de humo
                      Como un fiel apache
                      pero no comprendes el truco
                      y se pierde en el aire

                      Te mando la punta de un beso
                      que roza la tarde
                      Y un codigo morse transmita
                      el "te quiero" de un angel
                      se pierde en el aire

                      Te mando la luz de mis ojos (I think I will send a photo to you of just my eyes)
                      de un cuarto menguante
                      y un sol embriagado la eclipsa
                      y no puede excusarse

                      Que voy a hacer
                      inventar alfabeto en las nubes
                      conjugarnos al amanecer
                      y sentarme sobre tus pupilas
                      y reir o llorar al querer
                      si no puedo encontrarte esta vez
                      te mando senales de humo
                      como un fiel apache

                      pero no comprendes el truco
                      y se pierde en el aire
                      se pierde en el aire

                      Goodbye my Victorious Friend....besos.
                      Vida

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Clarifying Misnomers Suki believes in...

                        Originally posted by Suki
                        Some of your lack of logic Another Rican.
                        Coming from a "logic-master?"
                        Eddie does not believe in God or in religionist notions of who created the universe. He has been crystal clear on this. He thinks God is an excuse used by religionists to try to keep the working masses from addressing down to earth problems. Like bad working conditions and political oppression (that usually goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic oppression). He is a scientific socialist. He has said it a million times. Eddie also is an older gentleman I think maybe in his eighties.
                        Of course, he is a hard-core Marxist-Communist. That is what they believe. They will use that excuse to reject God. That is one of their political "crutches" and justificiations to position themselves as the "saviors" of humanity. They are blind as bats when they don't realize they are setting up a new religion with the "state" in the place of God. He would say, "The Peoples" rules when, in reality, it is a bunch of ruthless thugs who do not value life as sacred.

                        As for his "grandfather" image... that is a convenient cloak to hide under. He tries to portray himself as a little grandfather. This conjures up "family" images and children playing. For all we know, Eddie could be a gay child abuser or even a homeless person... or he may be simply a person just crossing that age when he can apply to the AARP. Eddie can pat himself on the back for being able to get cheaper coffee now at McDonalds! Congrats, Eddie!

                        [/b]

                        Sometime during his long life he became a Scientific Socialist and for him to do that in a society as pro-Capitalistic and profit driven and CHRISTIAN as this Puerto Rican society and USA society he knew he was not representing the majority opinion and world view and would be getting severe criticisms as all people that you Another Rican should be aware of from the MORAL MAJORITY.
                        What was that? Was that a slam or a slur? Do you mean Eddie has been attacked by the Moral Majority? Or are you saying that I am a member of the Moral Majority? First, the "Moral Majority" no longer exists. It was dissolved many years ago. Second, I've never belonged to it... ever!
                        He survived the 1950's McCarthy era of smoking out the "commies", people calling him nuts, crazy, the devil, anti-Christ and who knows what else for his beliefs. Do you honestly think that at this juncture of his existence he is gonna get up and say "Hallelujah, Another Rican hath arrived and shown me the light of his God Fearing PNP ways and I am redeemed!!!"
                        He should! If he had enough sense...
                        .....You are smarter than that Another Rican and know Eddie will not be changing his opinions or thoughts or essential philosophies at this point in his life.
                        Are you saying that you can't teach an "old dog" new tricks? If so, that dog has rigor-mortis of the brain.

                        I know perfectly why he is on pr.com and why he is a consistent member and writer on this forum. To tell you the truth it takes a certain amount of tencity and gumption to continue to hold on to beliefs others are constantly attacking and belonging to a fairly small group of followers.
                        I know... I have to exercise "a certain amount of tenacity and gumption to continue to hold on to beliefs others are constantly attacking" also. You see much of the liberal media sides more with you folks than with me. Eddie has many soul-mates in both the media and the US Democratic Party. Suki... a lot of these folks were trained under liberal, anti-US, pro-Marxist, Socialist professors in the 60's while the war of Viet Nam was going on. Especially the journalism schools... they are indoctrination centers that feed directly into the media outlets. During those days and since, I have been on many campuses, interacted with the student population, and spoken to administrators and faculty alike only to continually find that anyone espousing non-leftwing views was run out of town and was considered a laughingstalk.

                        Another thing I found consistently was that Engineering and Hard Sciences majors tended to be more conservative. I wonder why? Most philosophy and political science majors were given to speculation and "air-head" thinking while Engineering and Sciences types had to deal with the realities and "real" quantities versus esoterical and romantic notions. Eddie prides himself that he is not "emotional" and therefore not religious... little does he realize how "emotional and glandular" he really is and how that has lead him down the dark path of atheism and Marxism.


                        I know why he does it. I can't help my feelings for him.
                        Getting touchy and feelie here... watch out... Eddie disdains that!
                        He probably thinks I am some idiot religionist woman wasting time on the unknowable when reality (concrete reality is a much more important endeavor to be engaged in for my limited time on Earth).
                        The concrete reality is that there IS a God, He is there, and He has left a trail of evidence for us to look at. The problem is that guys like Eddie, have blown or ripped out their God-circuits earlier in life. Their "reality" is one that does not sense God. Hence they are atheists while the rest of us can enjoy the scenery!

                        My mother thinks many scientific socialists talk a lot about changing society but they do it within an elite group and scoff at the masses. Treating people who are not readers of heavy tomes on Communism like inferiors. And living in contradiction of their essential premises.
                        Your mother is a wise woman! Listen to her more often!
                        You see, Suki. Your mother is simply saying what I've been saying to Eddie all along. He practices that which he decries in others, including religion and addictions. This hypocrisy and smugnness on his part is what I try to uncover. It is the basis of his politics at the core. Most do not see this. Maybe you will see it also.


                        Eddie is not one of the contradictors ( I don't share his views, neither does Voice and many others, but Eddie respects people who use their head, the rest are titeres to him and I do not have to guess where he places you Another Rican).
                        Suki... I won't take that personal. You see the problem is that those things Eddie accuses us conservatives are the very things we have shown him that he practices. He then treats the subject with the silent treatment never addressing the points previously brought to him. He claims he respects people who use their head... as long as they do not expose his flaws, either character-wise or logic-wise. I have no problems in him not respecting me... it is funny that he labels his reason as "intellectual" while it is simply a smokescreen covering up his own delusional thoughts. I certainly engage him intellectually but he will not accept me in his playground... so he throws mud balls at me and screams like a child. I hope you can see his antics. They are as old as the old Serpent himself.
                        He has lived an era and a time and a place. His choices have been weighty and difficult and his sacrifices long. He does not respect you Another Rican. Why should he? You are not here to show a shining example of Christian love and faith and acceptance.
                        Suki, have you ever heard of the term called "tough love?" There is a misnomer that believes that Christians are to only be like melted butter and drip "love" like syrup. Hitler took advantage of such types. Suki, you apparently have the wrong concept of what "love" is. Even Solomon said, "Better is open rebuke than secret love." Even with Christ you can see Him treating persons differently depending on the circumstance. The way he treated the masses was quite different than the way he treated those with self-righteousness and no need for God. In many of those cases, he would "blast" those who would arrogantly consider themselves "better" and who were postulating themselves as "influencers." Eddie is of such ilk. I surmise that you have very little experience in knowing the profile of atheists. They are a different bunch. I have spent thousands of hours trying to get inside the minds of atheists over many years. The atheist mind is not a normal mind. Space and time does not permit a full elucidation of these dynamics. Atheists are spiritual deviants and when they assume political power they can be quite ruthless! That is why I say that the atheism of Berrios and Bras is no laughing matter. Their rejection of a Godhead in their lives is reflective of how they see themselves and how they see people around them (cheap and expendable). Caveat Emptor!

                        You are mixing worldly stuff like Politics "tumba cabeza ideologica" and religion "spiritual transcendence" and you do it Another Rican because you think of independentistas and commies and etc. as a threat to Puerto Rican society and freedom and etc.
                        I mix them because there is no dichotomy. That dichotomy is an illusion created and programmed by academia and liberals. Los "tumba cabeza" liberals, Marxists, and atheists like Eddie, Camano, Berrios, and Bras are indeed a danger to our beloved Island's future. They will 'tumbar las cabezas' of their foes... literally!
                        Another Rican, I really think you do not come arguing with Eddie to make him a better person. Lol. You know why you do it. I don't have to tell you. Just don't play the innocent and say "Looky Leti and Suki". You want every Rican on planet earth to belong to your religion, your political party and your way of thinking?
                        Truth is truth... Yes, I would like all men to see THE TRUTH! Don't you? If Eddie would embrace THE TRUTH then he would certainly be a better person! I make no apologies even though you are "tumbando my cabeza!"

                        I got news buddy....it aint gonna happen. I think statehood is not only not on the USA's agenda. But I don't believe in your fundamentalist Christian stuff either.
                        Pleeease... lets not use that liberal media label used to isolate devoted believers in God. Suki... what kind of fundamentalist are you? You see... you are attacking someone who believes in certain basic principles. Suki... are you a fundamentalist independentista/nacionalista? Are you are fundamentalist PPD? Are you a fundamentalist Catholic? Are you a fundamentalist atheist? Libertarian? Democrat? Fundamentalist Cynic? Etc.?
                        And if you start saying I am wrong and you are right. Then alla tu. Judging people is not changing them. And what we are left with is unproductive and stupid name calling and mudslinging. Eddie does not care what you think. And you have dialogued a lot with my mother and I happen to agree with her that you have very little of Christian and a whole lot of ego.
                        Just when I thought your mother was a wise woman...
                        Remember, Suki, that you must define WHAT IS A CHRISTIAN? If it is based on the life and words of Christ, then your mother is perhaps incomplete in her assessment because she only sees part of the model Christ presented. I say that with all respect to your mom. If you go to a pacifist Christian person "love" will look different than with a Christian that believes it is OK to use self-defense and sovereignty based on Christ's teachings. Remember that Christ did not show love the same way to all. I would be glad to provide you with examples if you care.


                        If negroes in the slave days thought the way you do now about "the Massa in the big house" (afterall all of us have Masters) slavery would never have come to an end for the African Americans in this country. Let the Gringos run the show....they are faster, stronger, bigger and smarter than us and we are weak and corrupt and evil and low. YOU ARE THE SLAVE ANOTHER RICAN and stop throwing a tantrum when the freed negroes like Moses, Harriet Tubman surely but slowly start taking the slaves off the plantation and into a new day.
                        I suspect that you are projecting your anger issues on me. You are not accurate and are trying to fit me into your box of previous "Christian experiences" even if they were bad ones. I don't believe any of the stuff you just said.
                        You might think a benevolent Master is best and silk clothes and golden cages and house negroe meals are worth the lack of decision making and lack of respect for a nation who culturally is distinct and should be let go because they KNOW BEST. I have too much faith in a fair God who says I give you freedom yet you reject it? Why? For trinkets, and security?
                        Wow! Suki... you are one angry woman! What's wrong with choosing between a very evil master and one that looks greate and fantastic compared to the very evil one? The very evil one here is "independencia" not because it isn't a noble desire but because I simply do not want atheistic and selfish Jerks like Bras and Berrios to take away my parent's home and force them to work in the sugar cane fields. That is a "reality" I can see because I look at their values which governs their decision-making. I don't want my family at the butt-end of these clowns' decisions.

                        Suki, everyone has one of more MASTERS. Which one is yours?

                        And Nacionalista 's quote from Ben Franklin on his sig is right. Those who fear risking security for essential liberty deserve neither liberty or security. That applies to you perfectly Another Rican.
                        I believe in it with all my heart. I simply don't believe that what P.R. is going to get in exchange for what she currently has is better. It is like falling into an abyss with no turning back. Please don't question my love for Puerto Rico and my willingness to sacrifice. I don't yours. Think about it, Suki... I think you are romantically attached to an ideal that pragmatically won't work. What did you major in College?


                        [Edited by AnotherRican on 1st December 2002 at 20:40]

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Another Rican

                          Originally posted by Leticia_g in a state of sincere moral confusion:
                          You may accuse Eddie of placing derrogatory comments on the topic but if you go back and read all the postings you were the one that had to change th etopic and in your opinion include Eddie and Camano as examples to your statemnts. In using them as example all you could think of is defaming them. The facts are there and all you have to do is read your postings. People do defend themself, and rightly so. I still feel that respect is earned. If in every topic you get into to all you can do is use references in a degrading manner of other people here then who is the one instigating all the derrogatory comments. Whether you respect Eddie and Camano or not, they have the right to there own individuality. Whatever their belief it does not make them as you claim a communist, if any one is showing naiveness is you by constantly trying to attack people personally.
                          I'm sorry that you totally have missed my points and you only see me as being "derrogatory" while Eddie and Camano get away with their mischief on this forum. I have no problem respecting anyone. The problem is that what you accuse me of is what Eddie and Camano types are doing. No one is pointing out their hypocrisy and the connection of their failed spirituality to their bankrupt politics. It is interesting that those who praise Eddie and Camano belong to very similar political and/or spiritual points of view.
                          Leti... I respect your opinions about me though I believe you are sincerely mistaken. Now can you please give Eddie, the "grandfather" wannabe the same (though biased) scrutiny you have given me?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Clarifying Misnomers Suki believes in...

                            [QUOTE]Originally posted by AnotherRican
                            Originally posted by Suki
                            Some of your lack of logic Another Rican.
                            Coming from a "logic-master?"
                            Eddie does not believe in God or in religionist notions of who created the universe. He has been crystal clear on this. He thinks God is an excuse used by religionists to try to keep the working masses from addressing down to earth problems. Like bad working conditions and political oppression (that usually goes hand-in-hand with socioeconomic oppression). He is a scientific socialist. He has said it a million times. Eddie also is an older gentleman I think maybe in his eighties.
                            Of course, he is a hard-core Marxist-Communist. That is what they believe. They will use that excuse to reject God. That is one of their political "crutches" and justificiations to position themselves as the "saviors" of humanity. They are blind as bats when they don't realize they are setting up a new religion with the "state" in the place of God. He would say, "The Peoples" rules when, in reality, it is a bunch of ruthless thugs who do not value life as sacred.

                            Suki: AnotherRican most of the world is "religious" and according to statistics Christianity has the biggest number of followers more than islam, more than buddhists and etc. and they have a whole lot of people who are thugs and evil doers as so called "Christians" among them. Eddie is upfront and honest about telling you "no, I don't believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. Now if you are a real Christian AnotherRican you can do one of two things. Tell him he is going to hell. Or two, try to convert him. He is not going to convert. It goes against his deepest beliefs and his deepest convictions and would be contradicting his character. But since you do not care about that aspect of him and you think he is the devil incarnate or something similar. And you project yourself as the all knowing Christian pious dude you are you are doing your Christian duty by exposing his heresy for all of us to see. With me you have failed. I like and respect Eddie. You can talk all your basofia until you are blue in the face. It is not going to change my liking and respect for the man. You interpret communism as a rejector of God. Ok. So they reject God. I guess you will label all believers in Communism then "rejectors of God". I would then conclude you see this as very offensive to your fundamentalism and they are ruthless thugs etc. etc. I have talked to Eddie at length Another Rican and he is not a thug (you might believe whole-heartedly that he is.....so what? I don't). That is guaranteed. I have never met thugs who are as cultured and intellectual as he is. Or sensitive to the things I love the most in life, music, art, poetry and literature. He is all that and more. I don't care if Eddie has below poverty income, and lives in a hovel. His mind is sophisticated and he obviously has knowledge on a great spectrum of subjects. He has treated me with a great deal of respect and kindness. And so I reciprocate that. Bottom line I like the man. You are not going to persuade me otherwise.

                            As for his "grandfather" image... that is a convenient cloak to hide under. He tries to portray himself as a little grandfather. This conjures up "family" images and children playing. For all we know, Eddie could be a gay child abuser or even a homeless person... or he may be simply a person just crossing that age when he can apply to the AARP. Eddie can pat himself on the back for being able to get cheaper coffee now at McDonalds! Congrats, Eddie!


                            Suki: Eddie has steadfastly refused to enlighten me about his personal family life. He wants to keep all information about his family background private. That is his choice. I respect it completely. He does not lie he is a senior citizen. As far as I am concerned I respect his parameters. He has never tried to project himself as an elderly grandfather doting at all. He likes sticking to subjects that are being discussed. He is not a statehooder. He sees them as the corrupt and the thieves of Puerto Rico. I will not have to tell you if I agree with that.....I am pro-independence as well. And you can reach your own conclusion anotherrican. LOL. I think Eddie is NOT gay. He is obviously heterosexual. And also he is DEFINITELY NOT A CHILD Molester. Those people are so horrendously offensive to my moral compass that if you ever even hinted something of that nature about me without knowing me personally I would be hating your guts for eternity AnotherRican. Anyone who abuses children should be shot in my honest opinion. To have someone accuse me of such unfounded and groundless filthy acts of the lowest of evil people I would be their enemy forever. Watch what you say AnotherRican it is sick....and not a good indicator of where your head is at.

                            Sometime during his long life he became a Scientific Socialist and for him to do that in a society as pro-Capitalistic and profit driven and CHRISTIAN as this Puerto Rican society and USA society he knew he was not representing the majority opinion and world view and would be getting severe criticisms as all people that you Another Rican should be aware of from the MORAL MAJORITY.
                            What was that? Was that a slam or a slur? Do you mean Eddie has been attacked by the Moral Majority? Or are you saying that I am a member of the Moral Majority? First, the "Moral Majority" no longer exists. It was dissolved many years ago. Second, I've never belonged to it... ever!
                            Suki: You go on and keep up your silly debate with Eddie. He does not try to intellectualize with you. You are a waste of time. You are all about judgementalism, fire and brimstone and playing the great debater. Frankly AnotherRican you are sounding more and more like a 'control freak' to me. I am sorry if that offends you but every post that does not agree with you, all you do is try to find some "perceived" weak point in your own mind that you can try to project in your own way for what again only in your mind as "winning the argument". YOU MUST BE RIGHT AND HAVE THE LAST WORD or suffer mentally....I define that as "control freak". When a person is a control freak they don't care to listen they are all about "winning" no more learning is going on.....it is all about "me....I....ego" YOU are the moral compass....you are the standard.....your religion is the only legitimate one. Your way is the only way. So on and so forth. Dios mio, tu me cansas AnotherRican.
                            He survived the 1950's McCarthy era of smoking out the "commies", people calling him nuts, crazy, the devil, anti-Christ and who knows what else for his beliefs. Do you honestly think that at this juncture of his existence he is gonna get up and say "Hallelujah, Another Rican hath arrived and shown me the light of his God Fearing PNP ways and I am redeemed!!!"
                            He should! If he had enough sense...

                            Suki: LOL. AnotherRican.....I can picture it now....Eddier1 posting "Oh AnotherRican you have shone the light of your wisdom on me. I am redeemed!!" hallelujah!! I am no longer a communist. I am no longer x,y,z.....some dude on the internet has changed me for good!! I can tell you right now. I WILL NEVER BELIEVE in your religion or your politics. And I am not as old as Eddier1. Lol. In my honest opinion. I don't know you AnotherRican. You are proud of your children. You have some knowledge of Christian scripture. Are you the wisest, most educated man I have met in my life? NO. So many men I have met that are more intelligent than you, wiser, kinder and nicer and more Christian than you AnotherRican. You are some conservative, pro-statehooder, holier-than-thou in Miami. I frankly really don't care for your thoughts or opinions at all. And after this post I will make it a point to ignore all your attempts at cheap 'control freak' debate....no matter how personal the attacks will become. YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.

                            .....You are smarter than that Another Rican and know Eddie will not be changing his opinions or thoughts or essential philosophies at this point in his life.
                            Are you saying that you can't teach an "old dog" new tricks? If so, that dog has rigor-mortis of the brain.

                            Suki: You can't teach an old 36 year-old married Puerto Rican woman new tricks either....lol.
                            I know perfectly why he is on pr.com and why he is a consistent member and writer on this forum. To tell you the truth it takes a certain amount of tencity and gumption to continue to hold on to beliefs others are constantly attacking and belonging to a fairly small group of followers.
                            I know... I have to exercise "a certain amount of tenacity and gumption to continue to hold on to beliefs others are constantly attacking" also. You see much of the liberal media sides more with you folks than with me. Eddie has many soul-mates in both the media and the US Democratic Party. Suki... a lot of these folks were trained under liberal, anti-US, pro-Marxist, Socialist professors in the 60's while the war of Viet Nam was going on. Especially the journalism schools... they are indoctrination centers that feed directly into the media outlets. During those days and since, I have been on many campuses, interacted with the student population, and spoken to administrators and faculty alike only to continually find that anyone espousing non-leftwing views was run out of town and was considered a laughingstalk.

                            Suki: So now you are a persecuted holier-than-thou conservative Pro-statehooder PNP Christian in Miami. Persecuted by a bunch of radical, liberal left wing academicians...lol. What a whiner you are.....and as I told a friend of mine the other day....."I can not abide men who whine."

                            Another thing I found consistently was that Engineering and Hard Sciences majors tended to be more conservative. I wonder why? Most philosophy and political science majors were given to speculation and "air-head" thinking while Engineering and Sciences types had to deal with the realities and "real" quantities versus esoterical and romantic notions. Eddie prides himself that he is not "emotional" and therefore not religious... little does he realize how "emotional and glandular" he really is and how that has lead him down the dark path of atheism and Marxism.


                            Suki: What is more romantic and esoterical and idealistic than being a Protestant Christian? And being faith-based. I find the "engineer-bible thumping crowd" extremely contradictory and psychotic in philosophy....lol. One is math and fact based knowledge and the other requires "belief and faith" as the cornerstones of its members.....how you AnotherRican synthesize that into a cohesive philosophy is quite an enigma to me...lol. Between you and I.....you are the more emotional and glandular AR. Eddie is consistent. And I also respect consistency. LOL.

                            I know why he does it. I can't help my feelings for him.
                            Getting touchy and feelie here... watch out... Eddie disdains that!
                            Suki: He probably does disdain it. But I am secure enough in myself to express my feelings. He is who he is. I respect that too. I would not want to go to my grave not letting people know where they stand emotionally with me. I can tell you right now....there are quite a few people I like on this forum. And I like letting them know that. Lol. If I am judged badly because of who I am. SO BE IT. LOL.

                            He probably thinks I am some idiot religionist woman wasting time on the unknowable when reality (concrete reality is a much more important endeavor to be engaged in for my limited time on Earth).
                            The concrete reality is that there IS a God, He is there, and He has left a trail of evidence for us to look at. The problem is that guys like Eddie, have blown or ripped out their God-circuits earlier in life. Their "reality" is one that does not sense God. Hence they are atheists while the rest of us can enjoy the scenery!

                            Suki: Then enjoy the scenery AnotherRican and leave the non-believers alone....lol. Each person must look inside themselves and look deeply at who they are and what they believe in. Respect the ultimate choice. God is real for you. Good. God is not very apparent to Eddie. Fine. Why must your conviction be his conviction? Because your way is right and his is wrong. He is not some child AR, he is an adult man. With a brilliant cabeza. YOU are not convincing him. Lol.

                            My mother thinks many scientific socialists talk a lot about changing society but they do it within an elite group and scoff at the masses. Treating people who are not readers of heavy tomes on Communism like inferiors. And living in contradiction of their essential premises.
                            Your mother is a wise woman! Listen to her more often!
                            You see, Suki. Your mother is simply saying what I've been saying to Eddie all along. He practices that which he decries in others, including religion and addictions. This hypocrisy and smugnness on his part is what I try to uncover. It is the basis of his politics at the core. Most do not see this. Maybe you will see it also.


                            Suki: My mom is a wise woman. I don't think you called her good names on this forum, or wise either...LOL....lol. YOU are foolish AR. And making"ideological" enemies of my mother does not endear you to me at all. Lol.
                            Eddie is not one of the contradictors ( I don't share his views, neither does Voice and many others, but Eddie respects people who use their head, the rest are titeres to him and I do not have to guess where he places you Another Rican).
                            Suki... I won't take that personal. You see the problem is that those things Eddie accuses us conservatives are the very things we have shown him that he practices. He then treats the subject with the silent treatment never addressing the points previously brought to him. He claims he respects people who use their head... as long as they do not expose his flaws, either character-wise or logic-wise. I have no problems in him not respecting me... it is funny that he labels his reason as "intellectual" while it is simply a smokescreen covering up his own delusional thoughts. I certainly engage him intellectually but he will not accept me in his playground... so he throws mud balls at me and screams like a child. I hope you can see his antics. They are as old as the old Serpent himself.
                            Suki: The only one who has whined on like a kid in a playground with the "looky leti and suki" stuff....has been you. Lol. Eddie gets the way he gets with people he knows disapprove of him. YOU disapprove. Le vale you know what that you do. Why continue to fight with him? Unless you like all that hostigando and mudslinging....lol.

                            He has lived an era and a time and a place. His choices have been weighty and difficult and his sacrifices long. He does not respect you Another Rican. Why should he? You are not here to show a shining example of Christian love and faith and acceptance.
                            Suki, have you ever heard of the term called "tough love?" There is a misnomer that believes that Christians are to only be like melted butter and drip "love" like syrup. Hitler took advantage of such types. Suki, you apparently have the wrong concept of what "love" is. Even Solomon said, "Better is open rebuke than secret love." Even with Christ you can see Him treating persons differently depending on the circumstance. The way he treated the masses was quite different than the way he treated those with self-righteousness and no need for God. In many of those cases, he would "blast" those who would arrogantly consider themselves "better" and who were postulating themselves as "influencers." Eddie is of such ilk. I surmise that you have very little experience in knowing the profile of atheists. They are a different bunch. I have spent thousands of hours trying to get inside the minds of atheists over many years. The atheist mind is not a normal mind. Space and time does not permit a full elucidation of these dynamics. Atheists are spiritual deviants and when they assume political power they can be quite ruthless! That is why I say that the atheism of Berrios and Bras is no laughing matter. Their rejection of a Godhead in their lives is reflective of how they see themselves and how they see people around them (cheap and expendable). Caveat Emptor!

                            Suki: The PNP have assumed power quite often....and I would not call them santitos...lol. Not going by all the jail terms and scandals that have rocked that party lately. Lol. Which is worse the atheist who is upfront and does not lie about his lack of belief? Or the one who espouses belief and piety and acts like a ruthless killer thug? Fill in the blanks...lol. Tough love? You are giving Eddier1 a dose of "tough love"? Who are you to him? His Daddy? His boss? His best friend? Who are you to him?....talk about delusions of grandeur....lol.

                            You are mixing worldly stuff like Politics "tumba cabeza ideologica" and religion "spiritual transcendence" and you do it Another Rican because you think of independentistas and commies and etc. as a threat to Puerto Rican society and freedom and etc.
                            I mix them because there is no dichotomy. That dichotomy is an illusion created and programmed by academia and liberals. Los "tumba cabeza" liberals, Marxists, and atheists like Eddie, Camano, Berrios, and Bras are indeed a danger to our beloved Island's future. They will 'tumbar las cabezas' of their foes... literally!
                            Suki: There is no dichotomy between POLITICS and RELIGION? Well hello AnotherRican Ayatollah!! Let us make the USA then a huge Church/government....where faith and the state are one and all who are not of the same religious conviction are tried for heresy.....bring back the Spanish Inquisition Another Rican. Cuz what you espouse is very medieval thinking.

                            Another Rican, I really think you do not come arguing with Eddie to make him a better person. Lol. You know why you do it. I don't have to tell you. Just don't play the innocent and say "Looky Leti and Suki". You want every Rican on planet earth to belong to your religion, your political party and your way of thinking?
                            Truth is truth... Yes, I would like all men to see THE TRUTH! Don't you? If Eddie would embrace THE TRUTH then he would certainly be a better person! I make no apologies even though you are "tumbando my cabeza!"

                            Suki: Ok Another Rican write up a document of what is absolute truth and then if Leti, I and others don't agree you can burn us at the stake....con charcoal lighter fluid and have yourself the MIAMI conservative, PNP witch trials...lol. My small commentary you interpret as "tumba cabeza"? Man.....whiny men again....I can't take it!!!LOL

                            I got news buddy....it aint gonna happen. I think statehood is not only not on the USA's agenda. But I don't believe in your fundamentalist Christian stuff either.
                            [b]Pleeease... lets not use that liberal media label used to isolate devoted believers in God. Suki... what kind of fundamentalist are you? You see... you are attacking someone who believes in certain basic principles. Suki... are you a fundamentalist independentista/nacionalista? Are you are fundamentalist PPD? Are you a fundamentalist Catholic? Are you a fundamentalist atheist? Libertarian? Democrat? Fundamentalist Cynic? Etc.?[/b

                            Suki: How do I attack you AR? By simply stating that I don't believe in PNP and in fundamentalism in christianity principles. It was a direct (no personalisms and no foul language declarative sentence saying in no uncertain terms. I disagree with you. Is that then an attack? Disagreement? Maybe to a control freak it is. Lol.
                            ]
                            And if you start saying I am wrong and you are right. Then alla tu. Judging people is not changing them. And what we are left with is unproductive and stupid name calling and mudslinging. Eddie does not care what you think. And you have dialogued a lot with my mother and I happen to agree with her that you have very little of Christian and a whole lot of ego.
                            Just when I thought your mother was a wise woman...
                            Remember, Suki, that you must define WHAT IS A CHRISTIAN? If it is based on the life and words of Christ, then your mother is perhaps incomplete in her assessment because she only sees part of the model Christ presented. I say that with all respect to your mom. If you go to a pacifist Christian person "love" will look different than with a Christian that believes it is OK to use self-defense and sovereignty based on Christ's teachings. Remember that Christ did not show love the same way to all. I would be glad to provide you with examples if you care.


                            Suki: Alla tu. Y aca yo. If you still believe in using the power of the state and military and mix it with religion especially the only "true one" on planet Earth all tu....and your medieval crusade....lol. History has shown were all the crusaders wind up.

                            If negroes in the slave days thought the way you do now about "the Massa in the big house" (afterall all of us have Masters) slavery would never have come to an end for the African Americans in this country. Let the Gringos run the show....they are faster, stronger, bigger and smarter than us and we are weak and corrupt and evil and low. YOU ARE THE SLAVE ANOTHER RICAN and stop throwing a tantrum when the freed negroes like Moses, Harriet Tubman surely but slowly start taking the slaves off the plantation and into a new day.
                            I suspect that you are projecting your anger issues on me. You are not accurate and are trying to fit me into your box of previous "Christian experiences" even if they were bad ones. I don't believe any of the stuff you just said.

                            Suki: I don't believe anything you say in terms of statehood, fundamentalist Christian conservative etc. I dont believe nor will I believe. Punto. Lol. Y que?
                            You might think a benevolent Master is best and silk clothes and golden cages and house negroe meals are worth the lack of decision making and lack of respect for a nation who culturally is distinct and should be let go because they KNOW BEST. I have too much faith in a fair God who says I give you freedom yet you reject it? Why? For trinkets, and security?
                            Wow! Suki... you are one angry woman! What's wrong with choosing between a very evil master and one that looks greate and fantastic compared to the very evil one? The very evil one here is "independencia" not because it isn't a noble desire but because I simply do not want atheistic and selfish Jerks like Bras and Berrios to take away my parent's home and force them to work in the sugar cane fields. That is a "reality" I can see because I look at their values which governs their decision-making. I don't want my family at the butt-end of these clowns' decisions.

                            Suki: Good for you. I don't care who you think should be in power....anyone you choose is bound to believe in the "benevolent Master" theory....and I am not into any kind of human politically and morally bankrupt politician being my master....you are though AnotherRican...y alla tu. Lol.

                            Suki, everyone has one of more MASTERS. Which one is yours?

                            Suki: Master is not the right word. The Divine One is my Teacher and I am The Divine One most humble student. Humans are not the Divine One therefore I do not owe them my most sacred of sacreds....el alma.....and to my husband....the beautiful one of my soul...I owe much....to my mother and my father and those I love and adore....loyalty and support and understanding and never to waver in those. Love is Divine is it not Another Rican?
                            And Nacionalista 's quote from Ben Franklin on his sig is right. Those who fear risking security for essential liberty deserve neither liberty or security. That applies to you perfectly Another Rican.
                            [b]I believe in it with all my heart. I simply don't believe that what P.R. is going to get in exchange for what she currently has is better. It is like falling into an abyss with no turning back. Please don't question my love for Puerto Rico and my willingness to sacrifice. I don't yours. Think about it, Suki... I think you are romantically attached to an ideal that pragmatically won't work. What did you major in College?

                            Suki: Fine. Fight for your trip AR. I will fight for mine. I think you are romantically attached to an ideal that is a big lie invented by some human corrupt mind bent on political machinations that are very non pragmatic. Thus the crux of our dilemma. Alla tu y aca yo. Punto. What I studied? Lol. Would you respect it? Would I care if you respected what I studied in college? I know Eddier1 respects it. I don't think you would. So why tell you? Good bye Another Rican. Lol.




                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Re: Clarifying Misnomers Suki believes in...

                              Originally posted by Suki

                              Suki: AnotherRican most of the world is "religious" and according to statistics Christianity has the biggest number of followers more than islam, more than buddhists and etc. and they have a whole lot of people who are thugs and evil doers as so called "Christians" among them. Eddie is upfront and honest about telling you "no, I don't believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. Now if you are a real Christian AnotherRican you can do one of two things. Tell him he is going to hell. Or two, try to convert him. He is not going to convert. It goes against his deepest beliefs and his deepest convictions and would be contradicting his character. But since you do not care about that aspect of him and you think he is the devil incarnate or something similar.
                              You've got me figured wrong. I'm sorry that in your worldview there are only those two options. I would recommend reading through the Gospels to discover that Christ had many more scenarios where he engaged different types of folks, whether they were antagonists or spiritually hungry.

                              And you project yourself as the all knowing Christian pious dude you are you are doing your Christian duty by exposing his heresy for all of us to see.
                              Suki... there's nothing farther from the truth than what you said. Like I said, you don't know me. You are have pre-judged me. God forbid that I consider myself better. I will say that there are many presuppositions posited by independentistas here and especially Eddie. These presuppositions go unchallenged. When one of us conservatives challenge the underlying spiritual and political implications every liberal cries "wolf!" Many folks here cannot see the implications underlying Berrios' and Bras' atheistic beliefs. Eddie is more open about his God-denial though not of his hypocrisy in morality (when he gets poetical and romantic notions). Bras and Berrios are cunning and snakes who change colors. Sorry if that offends you, Suki. You seem to not understand these controling beliefs that determine political decisions ultimately. And you trash me for exposing that.
                              With me you have failed.
                              I'm sorry but if I have failed with you it is because you don't see the inherrent evil in making political decisions affecting millions based on a godless and man-centered religion like Eddie's, Berrios', and Bras'.
                              If I offend you it is because you can't stand in the heat of the kitchen, Suki.

                              I've been quite respectful of you Suki. You cannot deny that. Yet you choose to slam me. It sounds like you project your past frustrations on me. Why don't you jump on Camano and Eddie when they act childish, give unsubstantiated claims and make false statements and accusations?

                              I like and respect Eddie. You can talk all your basofia until you are blue in the face. It is not going to change my liking and respect for the man. You interpret communism as a rejector of God. Ok. So they reject God. I guess you will label all believers in Communism then "rejectors of God". I would then conclude you see this as very offensive to your fundamentalism and they are ruthless thugs etc. etc. I have talked to Eddie at length Another Rican and he is not a thug (you might believe whole-heartedly that he is.....so what? I don't).
                              Then he is not a true atheist/communist. You see, Suki, Eddie claims hard-core atheism and Communism but when it comes time to practice it, then he becomes a practical "Christian" or "humanitarian" which is a direct contradiction of what he says he believes. This farcity is what keeps mischievious people like Eddie still circulating their fallacious lies. It would be well with you if you could read The God Who is There by Francis Shaeffer. In it you will see that men take "leaps of faith" and live in two separate compartments and dichotomies when they do not want to come to God. For instance, like Eddie, they profess to be "very rational and scientific" and when you nail them on why do they "love" or "hate" they take a leap of faith into darkeness living a lie contrary to their "very rational and scientific" beliefs! Inherrent in this contradiction is coming to the "end of one's rope" and either committing suicide, acquiring an addiction(s) for fantasy, or coming to God for a love-relationship. That is what I am trying to do in pointing out Eddie's hypocrisy and dichotomous life.
                              That is guaranteed. I have never met thugs who are as cultured and intellectual as he is. Or sensitive to the things I love the most in life, music, art, poetry and literature. He is all that and more.
                              That is why he is either dangerous or decieved. He is either positioning himself as a lover of God's creation giving you an illusion or either he is sincerely living the other side of his lie and therefore a hypocrite thus doing a "leap of faith."

                              By the way, Suki, I love life, music, art, poetry and literature. In spite of that, you still have this erroneous picture of me that I'm "bad."


                              I don't care if Eddie has below poverty income, and lives in a hovel. His mind is sophisticated and he obviously has knowledge on a great spectrum of subjects. He has treated me with a great deal of respect and kindness. And so I reciprocate that. Bottom line I like the man. You are not going to persuade me otherwise.
                              I'm not trying. I imagine that old Stalin was cute despite his barbaric days of youth. I'm sure that Stalin listened to music, enjoyed the arts, and read widely in his old age... By the way, of Eddie's own admission, he is not in his 80's. He probably just crossed the "Senior Citizen" line and is right now getting some free McDonalds' coffee. You and I are probably very close to his age. So lets not romanticise this Commie... something he would love us to do.
                              Suki: Eddie has steadfastly refused to enlighten me about his personal family life. He wants to keep all information about his family background private. That is his choice. I respect it completely. He does not lie he is a senior citizen. As far as I am concerned I respect his parameters. He has never tried to project himself as an elderly grandfather doting at all.
                              Where have you been? Perhaps you have not read our interactions. He keeps on pulling the "grandfather" card with me and the "intellectual/rational" card with me despite never providing any evidence supporting it.
                              He likes sticking to subjects that are being discussed.
                              Maybe with you, but not with Jibaro or me despite us asking pointed questions repeatedly! You consider me a bad person for nailing him in not answering the questions and "staying on the subject." Why is that Suki?
                              He is not a statehooder. He sees them as the corrupt and the thieves of Puerto Rico. I will not have to tell you if I agree with that.....I am pro-independence as well. And you can reach your own conclusion anotherrican. LOL.
                              I agree... there are corrupt Statehooders just like there are corrupt PPD governors and advisors as there are corrupt and evil "independentistas" who will throw out a student and create a riot for expressing his independent pro-statehood beliefs in an Independencia-Mafia controled school despite recieving Federal funds! Berrios and Bras are no saints, Suki. Take your choice of who will be your Master. There is no such thing as being Master-less!

                              I think Eddie is NOT gay. He is obviously heterosexual. And also he is DEFINITELY NOT A CHILD Molester. Those people are so horrendously offensive to my moral compass that if you ever even hinted something of that nature about me without knowing me personally I would be hating your guts for eternity AnotherRican.
                              Would you hate Eddie for the horrible things he has said to Jibaro and me, though he does not know us? If he said the same of you how would you feel? Let's be consistent here, Suki. You have a fixation because of Eddie's mantra he's been chanting. The fact is that you don't like our conservative mantra. Only liberals can criticize but not conservatives, eh?
                              Anyone who abuses children should be shot in my honest opinion. To have someone accuse me of such unfounded and groundless filthy acts of the lowest of evil people I would be their enemy forever. Watch what you say AnotherRican it is sick....and not a good indicator of where your head is at.
                              Now lets turn the tables on Eddie if you don't want to be a hypocrite. He has said some vile things about us and where were you? You have a double standard, Suki.

                              Suki: You go on and keep up your silly debate with Eddie. He does not try to intellectualize with you. You are a waste of time. You are all about judgementalism, fire and brimstone and playing the great debater. Frankly AnotherRican you are sounding more and more like a 'control freak' to me.
                              And Suki, you are not, eh? Why don't you jump on Eddie for the same tactics? You exercise conveniently a doubl-standard. You don't apply to Eddie the same standard. You fudge on your standard when it comes to Eddie. Admit it.
                              I am sorry if that offends you but every post that does not agree with you, all you do is try to find some "perceived" weak point in your own mind that you can try to project in your own way for what again only in your mind as "winning the argument". YOU MUST BE RIGHT AND HAVE THE LAST WORD or suffer mentally....I define that as "control freak". When a person is a control freak they don't care to listen they are all about "winning" no more learning is going on.....it is all about "me....I....ego" YOU are the moral compass....you are the standard.....your religion is the only legitimate one. Your way is the only way. So on and so forth. Dios mio, tu me cansas AnotherRican.

                              Suki... Getting in Eddie's face to you is being a control freak. Why don't you nail Eddie when he posts in needing to have the "last word" as you said? Why don't you nail him for not answering (nor Camano) our pointed questions? That, my dear, is a double-standard. This forum is for communicating. He who is more proliferate ultimately wins. You should know that. Eddie knows that quite well. Why are you complaining when even you show the same "chuzpah" in getting your thoughts out! I celebrate that. I guess you don't want that and you want us conservative to shut up and let you all have free reign? That sounds like a "control issue" in wanting to control this turf!


                              Suki: LOL. AnotherRican.....I can picture it now....Eddier1 posting "Oh AnotherRican you have shone the light of your wisdom on me. I am redeemed!!" hallelujah!! I am no longer a communist. I am no longer x,y,z.....some dude on the internet has changed me for good!! I can tell you right now. I WILL NEVER BELIEVE in your religion or your politics. And I am not as old as Eddier1. Lol. In my honest opinion. I don't know you AnotherRican. You are proud of your children. You have some knowledge of Christian scripture. Are you the wisest, most educated man I have met in my life? NO.
                              Thank you... I've been saying that all along... you finally got it! No one is the "wisest" here. Only One has that title.

                              If Eddie decides to bow the knee to Christ versus his own altar erected to himself, that would be fine.

                              So many men I have met that are more intelligent than you, wiser, kinder and nicer and more Christian than you AnotherRican.
                              Nah... not nicer than me! <Tongue in cheek>

                              So what? I can say the same of you? I've met nicer ladies than you who had more common sense than you do! So what is the point? Truth is Truth regardless of the messenger. What do you do with THE TRUTH?


                              You are some conservative, pro-statehooder, holier-than-thou in Miami.
                              YOu continue to insist on reading me wrong. I'm no better than Eddie or you. I am simply pointing out what I see as fallacies and underlying minefields in Eddie's stance or yours. If you don't like me, I don't care. You've read me wrong because you project your dislike for anyone challenging head on and unabashedly bad presuppositions and tying them to the spiritual. If I was a poetical New Ager spouting an idealistic Utopia you would probably hug me.
                              I frankly really don't care for your thoughts or opinions at all. And after this post I will make it a point to ignore all your attempts at cheap 'control freak' debate....no matter how personal the attacks will become. YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.
                              Hay pobrezita... you have given in to your glands versus your brains, Suki. I have treated you like a gentleman here and lookie how you treat us conservatives back. You liberals want to keep the patent on who decides who is nice or not. I'm sorry that you can't see the deceptiveness of liberalsim and its shifting sands. Berrios and Bras are masters of this chameleon act. You, apparently, are blind to this. I like you, Suki, even if you don't like me.

                              Now go and hug and join Eddie for a McDonalds' coffee.


                              Suki: So now you are a persecuted holier-than-thou conservative Pro-statehooder PNP Christian in Miami. Persecuted by a bunch of radical, liberal left wing academicians...lol. What a whiner you are.....and as I told a friend of mine the other day....."I can not abide men who whine."
                              No wonder you have such a bizarre way of thinking. You totally misunderstood what I was saying. Apparently your liberal spectacles don't let you see how prevalent, especially in academia, anti-American and liberal views are. Not whining. Simply reporting reality. I guess you can't see reality, Suki. Take those "liberal" glasses off!

                              Suki: What is more romantic and esoterical and idealistic than being a Protestant Christian? And being faith-based. I find the "engineer-bible thumping crowd" extremely contradictory and psychotic in philosophy....lol.
                              Funny... again, you missed the point. I guess you are slamming all engineering and science folks as "mindless" and "stupid"? You are trying to connect "Engineering" with "psychotic" and "bible-thumping." I guess I could do the same and connect your "liberalism" with "butterfly chasing" and "halucinogenic drugs!" What you just did is simply an old trick called "setting up a strawman" and also "guilt by association." Sounds like you are a discriminating bigot based on what you just said. Am I right?
                              One is math and fact based knowledge and the other requires "belief and faith" as the cornerstones of its members.....how you AnotherRican synthesize that into a cohesive philosophy is quite an enigma to me...lol. Between you and I.....you are the more emotional and glandular AR. Eddie is consistent. And I also respect consistency. LOL.
                              And you, Suki, are on drugs! I guess you don't have a developed capacity to see how integration is possible. Probably you've swallowed the lie that "integration is not possible." I'm sure you got that from your independentista and atheist profs. Not original.

                              Suki: He probably does disdain it. But I am secure enough in myself to express my feelings. He is who he is. I respect that too. I would not want to go to my grave not letting people know where they stand emotionally with me. I can tell you right now....there are quite a few people I like on this forum. And I like letting them know that. Lol. If I am judged badly because of who I am. SO BE IT. LOL.
                              I respect that even though you don't respect my worldview.
                              Suki: Then enjoy the scenery AnotherRican and leave the non-believers alone....lol. Each person must look inside themselves and look deeply at who they are and what they believe in. Respect the ultimate choice. God is real for you. Good. God is not very apparent to Eddie. Fine. Why must your conviction be his conviction? Because your way is right and his is wrong. He is not some child AR, he is an adult man. With a brilliant cabeza. YOU are not convincing him. Lol.
                              I leave Eddie not alone because he chooses to sidestep while continuing to post in public and make attacks. That is not the "sirene picture" of an old man you paint him to be. He is more astute than you make him to be. As a matter of fact... he is quite deceptive but lousy at it. It must be a left-over from his radical agitator days.
                              Suki: My mom is a wise woman. I don't think you called her good names on this forum, or wise either...LOL....lol. YOU are foolish AR. And making"ideological" enemies of my mother does not endear you to me at all. Lol.
                              Whew! I'm glad I never married a lady like you! You are a real pill! I wonder if your husband is on a leash? You distort my comments and you see what you want to, Suki. I was simply being nice to you and your mother. I don't get credit but if Eddie did it you be kissing him all over. Double-standard.
                              Suki: The only one who has whined on like a kid in a playground with the "looky leti and suki" stuff....has been you. Lol. Eddie gets the way he gets with people he knows disapprove of him. YOU disapprove. Le vale you know what that you do. Why continue to fight with him? Unless you like all that hostigando and mudslinging....lol.
                              I like watching pompous and dogma-filled Eddie show his true colors (dark) despite his "grandaddy" P.R. picture.
                              Suki: The PNP have assumed power quite often....and I would not call them santitos...lol. Not going by all the jail terms and scandals that have rocked that party lately. Lol. Which is worse the atheist who is upfront and does not lie about his lack of belief? Or the one who espouses belief and piety and acts like a ruthless killer thug? Fill in the blanks...lol.
                              Both are wrong and need to be prosecuted to the max. I'll still take a foundation which believes in a Higher Law anytime than a morally failed system with no Higher Law.
                              Which master do you want, Suki? Not fair to say you don't have any.


                              Tough love? You are giving Eddier1 a dose of "tough love"? Who are you to him? His Daddy? His boss? His best friend? Who are you to him?....talk about delusions of grandeur....lol.
                              Again, you missed the point. Again read through the Gospels and see what I mean with "tough love."
                              Suki: There is no dichotomy between POLITICS and RELIGION? Well hello AnotherRican Ayatollah!! Let us make the USA then a huge Church/government....where faith and the state are one and all who are not of the same religious conviction are tried for heresy.....bring back the Spanish Inquisition Another Rican. Cuz what you espouse is very medieval thinking.
                              Hello? Again you missed the point. There is no dichotomy between the spiritual beliefs and the decisions that come from those beliefs. If you believe in the "unGod" as an atheist then your political decisions will be the result of relativistic and shifting values which will tend to abuse people. That is why I camp on the fact that Berrios and Bras are bad news for P.R. They espouse shifting morality as atheists. They will lie to you in order to take control.
                              Suki: Ok Another Rican write up a document of what is absolute truth and then if Leti, I and others don't agree you can burn us at the stake....con charcoal lighter fluid and have yourself the MIAMI conservative, PNP witch trials...lol. My small commentary you interpret as "tumba cabeza"? Man.....whiny men again....I can't take it!!!LOL
                              You changed the rules and you sidestepped my comment by ridiculing it instead of seeing that my point was: Suki does the same "tumba cabeza" that she accuses AnotherRican of. You missed the point, Suki. By now you must be embarrassed!

                              I got news buddy....it aint gonna happen. I think statehood is not only not on the USA's agenda. But I don't believe in your fundamentalist Christian stuff either.
                              [/quote]

                              Bingo! But you sure enjoy the product of the "faith of our founding fathers" eh, Suki? There lies the hypocrisy.There is one of your "leaps of faith."
                              Suki: How do I attack you AR? By simply stating that I don't believe in PNP and in fundamentalism in christianity principles. It was a direct (no personalisms and no foul language declarative sentence saying in no uncertain terms. I disagree with you. Is that then an attack? Disagreement? Maybe to a control freak it is. Lol.
                              Read your own descriptors you have repeatedly used (in this post) and your strong opinions about me though they are based on not knowing me, Suki.
                              Suki: Alla tu. Y aca yo. If you still believe in using the power of the state and military and mix it with religion especially the only "true one" on planet Earth all tu....and your medieval crusade....lol. History has shown were all the crusaders wind up.
                              You mean like Stalin with his gospel of hate? Or do you mean like the Pilgrims of the Mayflower? Funny how these liberals have selective sight.
                              Suki: I don't believe anything you say in terms of statehood, fundamentalist Christian conservative etc. I dont believe nor will I believe. Punto. Lol. Y que?
                              Suki, I respect that you have made up your mind despite the facts and against all reason. That is your choice.

                              [quote]Suki: Good for you. I don't care who you think should be in power....anyone you choose is bound to believe in the "benevolent Master" theory....and I am not into any kind of human politically and morally bankrupt politician being my master....you are though AnotherRican...y alla tu. Lol.[/b]

                              Folks, here is another example of Suki taking another "leap of faith." She implies that she has no "master" and therefore exempt from the rest of the human race in terms of the reality that everyone has "masters." She simply won't admit she has a Master because she would have to cry "Uncle" and swallow her pride. Is Suki being intellectuall honest here? Judge for yourself.

                              Suki: Master is not the right word. The Divine One is my Teacher and I am The Divine One most humble student. Humans are not the Divine One therefore I do not owe them my most sacred of sacreds....el alma.....and to my husband....the beautiful one of my soul...I owe much....to my mother and my father and those I love and adore....loyalty and support and understanding and never to waver in those. Love is Divine is it not Another Rican?
                              So you admit you have Masters? Including political Masters whether you like them or not? Remember what Christ said when he said that everyone has at least one master.

                              Suki: Fine. Fight for your trip AR. I will fight for mine. I think you are romantically attached to an ideal that is a big lie invented by some human corrupt mind bent on political machinations that are very non pragmatic. Thus the crux of our dilemma.
                              I guess we mutually feel the same about each other. I would go further to encourage you to read the wisest man that lived Mr. Solomon and see if his statements have any political implications?

                              Alla tu y aca yo. Punto. What I studied? Lol. Would you respect it? Would I care if you respected what I studied in college? I know Eddier1 respects it. I don't think you would. So why tell you? Good bye Another Rican. Lol.
                              Well, Alla tu y aca yo. Eddie only respects whatever is in congruency with him. You are in his "love-trance" Suki. Wake up! <Suki, looking into her Lava Lamp>

                              [Edited by AnotherRican on 2nd December 2002 at 16:49]

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                              • #45
                                Re: Re: Thanks for clarifying, Leti...

                                Originally posted by Merci
                                They will not respect the individual except themselves (those in power, i.e., Berrios, Bras, a la Eddie, etc.). With guys like Eddie and Camano in power, your hard earned goods would be legally stolen from you. If they like something in your closet they will acquire it for themselves and leave the rest "left-overs" for the "masses." You, Leticia, and your family, will be in worse shape than where you originally started prior to "national sovereignty!"

                                Just my humble opinion, Leti.

                                It is all a matter of degrees. Choose your Master(s) and try to pick the best one(s) for you and your family, long-term.

                                No master is perfect. But some are more developed and mature than others... [/b] [/B]
                                [/B][/QUOTE]


                                Let me clarify my opinion on this subject. You claim we must have masters, I do not agree with that statement. For I feel, we all have the right to seek our freedom. If I were to choose, I would pick the political party that would allow me and my people to be themselves. Even if I must work harder or sacrifice some worldly goods, I do not consider that the worst, but the most fulfilling.. At the end, when we die, all we take with us is ourself, our accomplishments are measured, not by our worldly goods, but by what we as individuals can say we did ourself. No, I will not allow anyone to be constantly holding my hand or limiting my growth. I agree that my family would have to adapt and maybe give up some wolrdly things, but that to me will be well worth the sacrifice, because they will be better for it. I would relish the experience of seeing and living the absolute freedom of our people. To me, that would be the ultimate!



                                [Edited by Leticia_g on 9th December 2002 at 02:18]

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