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Are Puerto Ricans Really Co-Dependent and Helpless?

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  • #46
    NO MASTERS

    We as human beings are our own masters we either control
    our lives or surrender it for others to direct.
    Even GOD in his infinite wisdom gave us the freedom of
    choice and thus mastery over our lives,God could have
    had a bunch of little drones but he chose diversity.
    Sadly when it comes to Puerto Rican politics we have
    many cowards who like masters,there are those who with
    hat in hand look meekly to Washington for handouts and
    leadership,there are those who refuse their God given
    right to self rule for the comfort and safety of being
    told what to do.
    I assume that these cowardly people cannot even manage
    their own affairs and thus become sellouts or they are
    part of the corrupt wing of vendepatrias who want
    statehood so they can plunder.

    Comment


    • #47
      Leti... there's no such thing as absolute freedom!

      Originally posted by Leticia_g
      Let me clarify my opinion on this subject. You claim we must have masters, I do not agree with that statement. For I feel that we all have the right to seek our freedom.
      Leti... I think you have misunderstood what I said. Of course everyone has a "God-given" right to seek freedom. There is such a thing as "free-choice." The reality is that humans have a "limited free-choice." There is no such thing as a universal and blanket free choice with absolutely no boundaries on it. There is no such thing as "total" freedom. There are national boundaries, individual boundaries, natural law boundaries, spiritual boundaries and probably more... each one has a world inside of them but they are not "carte-blanche" towards no limits and no accountability.

      It doesn't matter whether we talk about a Puerto Rico with national sovereignty and independent or whether it is a "possession" of the USA. In each scenario there is a group of people that decide the fate of the many. Whether they are despots or whether they are benevolent, they are "masters" of the many. You can try to decide which one is better for your family but you have NO choice in having NO master unless you live on a raft floating in the sea or live in a jungle until caught and forced to pay to a society your dues. You are free to seek freedom but not free to be "master-less." As you well know, even Christ said everyone has a master.

      It is extremely idealistic and contrary to reality to believe that a person is not accountable to anyone or anything. The closest that people get to that are typically atheists, like Eddie, since they deny God's sovereignty over lives. There is no such thing that man is an "Island."

      If I were to choose, I would pick the one that would allow me and my people to be themselves. Even if I must work harder or sacrifice some worldly goods, I do not consider that the worst but the most fulfilling..

      And you have to choose, sooner or later. Any system, as you implied, will cost a person something. Estadidad or Independencia, both cost... no free lunch. Choose wisely.

      At the end, when we die, all we take with us is ourself, our accomplishments are measured not by our worldly goods, but by what we as individuals can say we did ourself. No, I will not allow anyway to be constantly holding my hand or limiting my growth.
      You see, we agree that we want the most freedom attainable in a particular system. You feel it comes via Independencia, I feel that is an illusion and is more possible via being connected to a "super-power." Both have a price and you must choose your price to pay. It happens that I believe that independencia will take P.R. into a third world country status with a bunch of thugs like Berrios and Bras (and Eddie-types who declare that "malcontents" will be dealt with {probably by force and blood}).

      I agree that my family would have to adapt and maybe give up some wolrdly things but that to me will be well worth the sacrifice, because they will be better for it. I would relish the experience of seeing and living the absolute freedom of our people. To me that would be the ultimate.
      No such thing as "absolute freedom." That is a fairy-tale, Leti! P.R. as an independent country would have to extract from you labor, finances, and concessions that may include your individual rights depending how oppressive or benevolent those in power are. I simply think that you folks have noble thoughts but are not realistic since you can watch our neighbors in both the Carribean, Central America, and South America and easily observe the track record of "independent" governments... pretty much...they are all disasters for the most part.

      I think you are sincere but very, very, naive and short-sighted. You cannot see that human nature, because it is selfish, must have many checks and balances to keep it in check. I would go for that system that has the most checks and balances and yet preserves the majority of our "God-given" freedoms. I think "independencia" though noble is a platform for few checks and balances and those in power quickly can become despots as nearby history has shown.



      [Edited by AnotherRican on 7th December 2002 at 22:24]

      Comment


      • #48
        Leticia G

        White Opal....Opalo Blanco. I have known you on this site for a while....a wiser, more compassionate woman it is hard to find. Lol. There is nothing innately selfish about you Senora. Maybe for some people selfishness is their 'fardo' in this life....lol. You are definitely a woman to be admired. Lol. You have a lovely home. And you are a professional woman....but none of the 'trappings' or creature comforts of 'benevolent masters' can replace your dignity. Your respect. Your sense of personal freedom and true meaning in life. True wisdom is definitely the hallmark of your character....and El Boricua is right as well. Though I see AR's humanity in his statements...now. I see why he thinks the way he does...he is consistent. I must concede his ideology does not contradict his values. Lol. I just don't share those values at all. And neither do you.

        saludos. Suki.

        Comment


        • #49
          No such thing as absolute freedom?

          quote:
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------It doesn't matter whether we talk about a Puerto Rico with national sovereignty and independent or whether it is a "possession" of the USA. In each scenario there is a group of people that decide the fate of the many. Whether they are despots or whether they are benevolent, they are "masters" of the many. You can try to decide which one is better for your family but you have NO choice in having NO master unless you live on a raft floating in the sea or live in a jungle until caught and forced to pay to a society your dues. You are free to seek freedom but not free to be "master-less." As you well know, even Christ said everyone has a master.


          AR - What you fail to comprehend is that just because we have a choice to, by your words, "pick our masters" it does not necessarily make it right to have our masters spoon feed us. You may be content with masters that limit our growth but I am not.


          quote:
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          It is extremely idealistic and contrary to reality to believe that a person is not accountable to anyone or anything. The closest that people get to that are typically atheists, like Eddie, since they deny God's sovereignty over lives. There is no such thing that man is an "Island."


          AR, I will not submit to your type of argument and bring in a respectable person that has not entered this discussion. If you have a more intelligent argument to give me, I will continue this one.

          quote:
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          You see, we agree that we want the most freedom attainable in a particular system. You feel it comes via Independencia, I feel that is an illusion and is more possible via being connected to a "super-power." Both have a price and you must choose your price to pay. It happens that I believe that independencia will take P.R. into a third world country status with a bunch of thugs like Berrios and Bras (and Eddie-types who declare that "malcontents" will be dealt with {probably by force and blood}).

          AR,I understand how you feel since you have been brainwashed into believig that we aren't capable to souverity. I however believe that if the US did it and it was a baby at the time, that we can do it also. Remember, more than 80 per cent of the people in the US felt that independence was something out of our reach and that the liberals were insane or communist, yet they did achieve their independence.

          quote:
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          No such thing as "absolute freedom." That is a fairy-tale, Leti! P.R. as an independent country would have to extract from you labor, finances, and concessions that may include your individual rights depending how oppressive or benevolent those in power are. I simply think that you folks have noble thoughts but are not realistic since you can watch our neighbors in both the Carribean, Central America, and South America and easily observe the track record of "independent" governments... pretty much...they are all disasters for the most part.

          AR, If you read the book, "US intervention in the Caribbean and Latin America" you would realize that a lot of the problems were conjured up as a means of control by the US. Anytime they felt they could lose some of their power over these countries, the US would support the opposing governement... limit their growth. Also AR why don't you focus on the countries that have a sucessful government. all countries in one way or another have problems. I still feel that the ability of not having your growth tampered with is one thing that I feel is very important.

          quote:
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          I think you are sincere but very, very, naive and short-sighted. You cannot see that human nature, because it is selfish, must have many checks and balances to keep it in check. I would go for that system that has the most checks and balances and yet preserves the majority of our "God-given" freedoms. I think "independencia" though noble is a platform for few checks and balances and those in power quickly can become despots as nearby history has shown.

          Well AR, you speak of naiveness but you fail to see you own naiveness. You speak about short sightednessbut you can't seem to see beyong your nose. I can classify you naive also, because you can't see beyond what you have been conditioned for years, therefore if your limits make me naive, so be it. I can see that our goals (independence)won't have easy passuage but I am not afraid of working hard or sacrficing, This I feel will benefit our people.

          AR, if the US influence in our Island has been so great then why are our people's self esteem so low? Why are our wages so low? Why is the Drug problem so immense? Why is our society suffering? Tell me why? You see the fruit does not fall that far from the tree, and if they are such great masters, then why are these things affecting our society so much?

          Comment


          • #50
            I did not notice this post until today....hmmm I will answer...

            Originally posted by AnotherRican
            [B]
            Originally posted by Suki

            Suki: AnotherRican most of the world is "religious" and according to statistics Christianity has the biggest number of followers more than islam, more than buddhists and etc. and they have a whole lot of people who are thugs and evil doers as so called "Christians" among them. Eddie is upfront and honest about telling you "no, I don't believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. Now if you are a real Christian AnotherRican you can do one of two things. Tell him he is going to hell. Or two, try to convert him. He is not going to convert. It goes against his deepest beliefs and his deepest convictions and would be contradicting his character. But since you do not care about that aspect of him and you think he is the devil incarnate or something similar.
            You've got me figured wrong. I'm sorry that in your worldview there are only those two options. I would recommend reading through the Gospels to discover that Christ had many more scenarios where he engaged different types of folks, whether they were antagonists or spiritually hungry.

            Suki: I think you believe in two options. AnotherRican is right and AnotherRican is also right again. I love the Gospels. Christ had the power to destroy the Romans, and he was offered by the Devil to be the King of all the peoples on the Earth if he would betray God. Christ chose ostracization, cruxifiction and public torture and humiliation and being reviled and taunted rather than to bring his wrath down on the 'heathens' and non-believers....why? Maybe he thought the non-believers had souls too...and ones just as valuable as the believers...and he did say "my kingdom is not of this world" did he not? I interpret that to mean that the world is not a primarily spiritual place....but one controlled mostly by the evil doers. Those who claim to be Christian and pious, and instead secretly long for power and the kingdoms of Satan....money, comforts, worshipping the Golden Calf, and giving up their souls for the here and now. I think those are the PNPs. I am sorry if you believe otherwise...but the facts are...that party was conceived in 1968 and has assumed power quite a few times and I see very little of Christianity about it....and a whole lot of Satan. And you think it is a good party because your family can keep their home an possessions and not go into the sugar cane fields like in your fantasy mind thinks will happen if some 'godless socialists' like Mari Bras and Berrios come to power. The proven devils are better in your mind over the non-proven devils. It seems to me you worship the Golden Calf as well....and will follow the forked tongues devils as long as the forked tongued devils say they are God fearing and pro-USA benevolent Master.
            Proverbios 22:16 El que oprime el pobre para aumentar sus ganancias,
            O que da al rico, ciertamente se empobrecera

            I wonder AR who oppresses the poor in Puerto Rico? And who gives to the rich? I don't like Sila either.....and the PNP are a bunch of lying jackals....who steal and oppress the Puerto Rican people. You think the PSP and the PIP and the Hostiosianos are the Devil incarnate.....lol. I can tell you right now.....who I think the Devils are.....lol. And it aint the 5% folks.

            And you project yourself as the all knowing Christian pious dude you are you are doing your Christian duty by exposing his heresy for all of us to see.
            [b]Suki... there's nothing farther from the truth than what you said. Like I said, you don't know me. You are have pre-judged me.

            Suki: AR you don't know me from Adam either...yet you have prejudged not only me but atleast 3 other people on this thread only....and you have wandered from honest debate by using individuals as examples....it makes you out to be a prejudiced, callous and unfeeling crusader with a closed mind tighter than a coffin. I am sorry but that is what your stuff reads off as. And it could be you personally are not that way at all.

            God forbid that I consider myself better. I will say that there are many presuppositions posited by independentistas here and especially Eddie. These presuppositions go unchallenged. When one of us conservatives challenge the underlying spiritual and political implications every liberal cries "wolf!" Many folks here cannot see the implications underlying Berrios' and Bras' atheistic beliefs. Eddie is more open about his God-denial though not of his hypocrisy in morality (when he gets poetical and romantic notions). Bras and Berrios are cunning and snakes who change colors. Sorry if that offends you, Suki. You seem to not understand these controling beliefs that determine political decisions ultimately. And you trash me for exposing that.

            Suki: You can do all you want challenging. That is your right. But your arguments are not solid. You are mixing religion with political ethics and conduct. To you there is no dichotomy. That is a serious flaw. It this country a theocracy.....the king and the religion all mixed under one government. The truth is politicians are about tumbar cabeza to get power and control. And the conservatives/liberals have tumbado mas cabeza than anyone and all they have done is alienate and disenchant more of the Puerto Rican than ever before. Both feed from the same disgusting trough. Conservatives even throw in giving up speaking Spanish and perpetuating a lie. Liberals PPD's are a bunch of lying hypocrites as well. Lol. And the devilish nation smiles on.....fill in the blanks AR.

            With me you have failed.
            I'm sorry but if I have failed with you it is because you don't see the inherrent evil in making political decisions affecting millions based on a godless and man-centered religion like Eddie's, Berrios', and Bras'.
            If I offend you it is because you can't stand in the heat of the kitchen, Suki.

            Suki: I see the inherent evil in not seeing the humanity and only seeing their lack of agreement with your belief and God and equating their lack of belief as lack of belief in God=immoral, beastly inhuman animals bent on destruction. The real Devils are not the non-believers....it is the ones who espouse belief but act like Ruthless, killer thugs and jackals....who betray their people's freedom for the price of silk clothes and worshipping the Golden Calf....the same one who controls from afar but does not concede any self determination and keeps everyone blind and desperate...fill in the blanks...YOU dont believe what I am saying and I dont believe what you are thinking and believe. And never the twain shall meet. Lol.

            I've been quite respectful of you Suki. You cannot deny that. Yet you choose to slam me. It sounds like you project your past frustrations on me. Why don't you jump on Camano and Eddie when they act childish, give unsubstantiated claims and make false statements and accusations?

            Suki: I don't slam you AR. Talk all you want. That is your right. What kind of person would I be if someone (a stranger) comes along and slams a friend of mine who I have spent a long, long, long time talking with and who has told me important and close things to and who I have not agreed with on the most important values I have in life...yet has been incredibly respectful of those differences and never has tried to tell me what is right and wrong but let me decide for myself and some unknown dude (YOU) who insults my friend and treats him bad and I stay quiet? I would be an idiot to stay quiet, and let that happen....and yes Eddie gets tough. And his language is....tough. I know the whys of why he is like that.....I know exactly why he is like that. I am not his mama to be telling him what is allowed or not....La pelea esta entre el y tu. YO no me meto en los pleitos estupidos de los varones con hormonas descontroladas. Lol. BUT Eddie is my friend. If you were my friend I would defend you dude. YOU are not. You lost your chance with the insults you threw at me....lol. People who insult me....naw they are not my friend....I am not into masochism. Lol.

            I like and respect Eddie. You can talk all your basofia until you are blue in the face. It is not going to change my liking and respect for the man. You interpret communism as a rejector of God. Ok. So they reject God. I guess you will label all believers in Communism then "rejectors of God". I would then conclude you see this as very offensive to your fundamentalism and they are ruthless thugs etc. etc. I have talked to Eddie at length Another Rican and he is not a thug (you might believe whole-heartedly that he is.....so what? I don't).
            Then he is not a true atheist/communist. You see, Suki, Eddie claims hard-core atheism and Communism but when it comes time to practice it, then he becomes a practical "Christian" or "humanitarian" which is a direct contradiction of what he says he believes. This farcity is what keeps mischievious people like Eddie still circulating their fallacious lies. It would be well with you if you could read The God Who is There by Francis Shaeffer. In it you will see that men take "leaps of faith" and live in two separate compartments and dichotomies when they do not want to come to God. For instance, like Eddie, they profess to be "very rational and scientific" and when you nail them on why do they "love" or "hate" they take a leap of faith into darkeness living a lie contrary to their "very rational and scientific" beliefs! Inherrent in this contradiction is coming to the "end of one's rope" and either committing suicide, acquiring an addiction(s) for fantasy, or coming to God for a love-relationship. That is what I am trying to do in pointing out Eddie's hypocrisy and dichotomous life.
            Suki: So if we don't believe like you do then we are crazy, evil doers bent on destruction? Lol. Eso si que esta loco. No, I respond to behavior. I had some students of mine. Adult women. They would occasionally tell me stories about their husbands and boyfriends beating them up and breaking their arms and threatening to kill them....after many questions and listening....I realized....they saw signs of violence and abuse from the beginning yet ignored it....hoping the man would change....you see, I think that is stupid. People who use violence and intimidation will start off right away with a certain style and signs....and then escalate...the victims ignore the signs....for their own sick reasons....the bottom line is that they allow it to happen. People who insult and judge and try to manipulate and control others thoughts and deepest held beliefs with the excuse that they are protecting a society from the DEVIL.....and go out looking to confront the Devil on a forum board where they represent statistically only 5% of the voting public are not thinking logically. 95% of the voters who are running Puerto Rico into the ground are not on this board they are in la Palma's board and the PPD board. Lol. Look for the Devils there....maybe you will find who set up and killed those kids in Cerro Maravilla. Unless you think they deserved to die for being Independentistas...and believe all those lies that that devil spouted.....then I would say.....keep worshipping your Golden Calf liars.....porque de cristianos ellos no tienen ni un pito.

            That is guaranteed. I have never met thugs who are as cultured and intellectual as he is. Or sensitive to the things I love the most in life, music, art, poetry and literature. He is all that and more.
            That is why he is either dangerous or decieved. He is either positioning himself as a lover of God's creation giving you an illusion or either he is sincerely living the other side of his lie and therefore a hypocrite thus doing a "leap of faith."

            Suki: Lol. What are you gonna do about this dangerous, decieving man AR? He is old, he has been persecuted, he is victorious in my opinion. And he is intelligent and lovely. What are you gonna do now....teach him a lesson. Lol. Ay Bendito.

            By the way, Suki, I love life, music, art, poetry and literature. In spite of that, you still have this erroneous picture of me that I'm "bad."


            Suki: You don't post about life, music, art and poetry and literature. I welcome all your commentary and opinions. I love the subjects. Go ahead. Post about that stuff. Lol. It will give me a truer picture of who you are Another Rican. And artists and lovers of art with demonstrable talent....always conquer my heart. Regardless of PNP defects. Lol. No sinceramente post on those subjects. I don't know you yet. I will not judge you.
            I don't care if Eddie has below poverty income, and lives in a hovel. His mind is sophisticated and he obviously has knowledge on a great spectrum of subjects. He has treated me with a great deal of respect and kindness. And so I reciprocate that. Bottom line I like the man. You are not going to persuade me otherwise.
            I'm not trying. I imagine that old Stalin was cute despite his barbaric days of youth. I'm sure that Stalin listened to music, enjoyed the arts, and read widely in his old age... By the way, of Eddie's own admission, he is not in his 80's. He probably just crossed the "Senior Citizen" line and is right now getting some free McDonalds' coffee. You and I are probably very close to his age. So lets not romanticise this Commie... something he would love us to do.

            Suki: I am 36, born in 1966. Born in el hospital Presbiteriano en la Ashford Ave. San Juan Puerto Rico. I have another 30 years to go before I get to qualify for the McDonald's Coffee. And I would refuse to let Eddie drink that stuff....I would make something a lot nicer....lol. He is not cute. Too dignified and argumentative to be 'cute'. I will not tell him how I see him...it would make him a little embarassed. And he is a cool one. Aunque tiene mi respeto y mucho mas. Lol.

            Suki: Eddie has steadfastly refused to enlighten me about his personal family life. He wants to keep all information about his family background private. That is his choice. I respect it completely. He does not lie he is a senior citizen. As far as I am concerned I respect his parameters. He has never tried to project himself as an elderly grandfather doting at all.[/quote]

            Where have you been? Perhaps you have not read our interactions. He keeps on pulling the "grandfather" card with me and the "intellectual/rational" card with me despite never providing any evidence supporting it.

            Suki: You are not conducive to rational debate with Atheists....lol. Or communists. So tit for tat...entiendes? I do not hang out watching for Another Rican vs Eddier1 round one battle of titans....nope. I head for the threads where Eddie can debate with people who just discuss and engage his mind without insults or judgementalisms...where you can actually sit down and analyze a subject....without resorting to name calling and heresy...burned at the stake trials.LOL

            He likes sticking to subjects that are being discussed. [/quote]

            Maybe with you, but not with Jibaro or me despite us asking pointed questions repeatedly! You consider me a bad person for nailing him in not answering the questions and "staying on the subject." Why is that Suki?

            Suki: You guys are judgemental. Atheist=Devil. Marxist=Devil. Leftist=Evil. It is in everything you write. Lol.

            He is not a statehooder. He sees them as the corrupt and the thieves of Puerto Rico. I will not have to tell you if I agree with that.....I am pro-independence as well. And you can reach your own conclusion anotherrican. LOL.
            [/quote]

            I agree... there are corrupt Statehooders just like there are corrupt PPD governors and advisors as there are corrupt and evil "independentistas" who will throw out a student and create a riot for expressing his independent pro-statehood beliefs in an Independencia-Mafia controled school despite recieving Federal funds! Berrios and Bras are no saints, Suki. Take your choice of who will be your Master. There is no such thing as being Master-less!

            Suki: Leti answered this well. Read her post about the benevolent Master theory of yours.
            I think Eddie is NOT gay. He is obviously heterosexual. And also he is DEFINITELY NOT A CHILD Molester. Those people are so horrendously offensive to my moral compass that if you ever even hinted something of that nature about me without knowing me personally I would be hating your guts for eternity AnotherRican.
            Would you hate Eddie for the horrible things he has said to Jibaro and me, though he does not know us? If he said the same of you how would you feel? Let's be consistent here, Suki. You have a fixation because of Eddie's mantra he's been chanting. The fact is that you don't like our conservative mantra. Only liberals can criticize but not conservatives, eh?

            Suki: If what he says is so repulsive...you have two choices....attack him (like you have been doing) or ignore him and move on. But one thing I can guarantee...control him or change his mind....you will not do. Not to him. Or to me either. lol.


            Anyone who abuses children should be shot in my honest opinion. To have someone accuse me of such unfounded and groundless filthy acts of the lowest of evil people I would be their enemy forever. Watch what you say AnotherRican it is sick....and not a good indicator of where your head is at.[/quote]

            Now lets turn the tables on Eddie if you don't want to be a hypocrite. He has said some vile things about us and where were you? You have a double standard, Suki.

            Suki: You think my duty in life is to be pendiente to mudslinging political threads....Look how many posts El Jibaro has.....more than practically anyone else here...lol. Me I am considering never posting again....too much toxic politics....lol. It is nauseating toxic politics.


            Suki: You go on and keep up your silly debate with Eddie. He does not try to intellectualize with you. You are a waste of time. You are all about judgementalism, fire and brimstone and playing the great debater. Frankly AnotherRican you are sounding more and more like a 'control freak' to me.
            And Suki, you are not, eh? Why don't you jump on Eddie for the same tactics? You exercise conveniently a doubl-standard. You don't apply to Eddie the same standard. You fudge on your standard when it comes to Eddie. Admit it.

            Suki: What standard? I am a an independentista, just like Leticia and many others. I am not a neutral moderator, arbitrator on this website....looking for neutrality...go to Geneva. This is pr.com politics not neutrality zone of the world. Do your think AR and I do mine. Lol.

            I am sorry if that offends you but every post that does not agree with you, all you do is try to find some "perceived" weak point in your own mind that you can try to project in your own way for what again only in your mind as "winning the argument". YOU MUST BE RIGHT AND HAVE THE LAST WORD or suffer mentally....I define that as "control freak". When a person is a control freak they don't care to listen they are all about "winning" no more learning is going on.....it is all about "me....I....ego" YOU are the moral compass....you are the standard.....your religion is the only legitimate one. Your way is the only way. So on and so forth. Dios mio, tu me cansas AnotherRican.
            [/quote]


            Suki... Getting in Eddie's face to you is being a control freak. Why don't you nail Eddie when he posts in needing to have the "last word" as you said? Why don't you nail him for not answering (nor Camano) our pointed questions? That, my dear, is a double-standard. This forum is for communicating. He who is more proliferate ultimately wins. You should know that. Eddie knows that quite well. Why are you complaining when even you show the same "chuzpah" in getting your thoughts out! I celebrate that. I guess you don't want that and you want us conservative to shut up and let you all have free reign? That sounds like a "control issue" in wanting to control this turf!


            Suki: This is a public forum it is anyone's turf...do your thing. If you want a statehooders only forum go make one and get some members....don't lie to yourself AR you come here cuz the opposition is here and you love to debate and do your PNP propaganda trip. Go ahead....just don't whine when you get challenged as well.....that is definitely immature. Lol.
            Suki: LOL. AnotherRican.....I can picture it now....Eddier1 posting "Oh AnotherRican you have shone the light of your wisdom on me. I am redeemed!!" hallelujah!! I am no longer a communist. I am no longer x,y,z.....some dude on the internet has changed me for good!! I can tell you right now. I WILL NEVER BELIEVE in your religion or your politics. And I am not as old as Eddier1. Lol. In my honest opinion. I don't know you AnotherRican. You are proud of your children. You have some knowledge of Christian scripture. Are you the wisest, most educated man I have met in my life? NO.
            Thank you... I've been saying that all along... you finally got it! No one is the "wisest" here. Only One has that title.

            If Eddie decides to bow the knee to Christ versus his own altar erected to himself, that would be fine.


            Suki: YOU are not Christ....and Eddie is not gonna bow. Goes against everything he is as a man. The exact thing I respect the most about him. Lol. If you believe in God you must know God made Eddie. If he did then let him love his creation.....and let his creation be himself. No crees?

            So many men I have met that are more intelligent than you, wiser, kinder and nicer and more Christian than you AnotherRican.[/quote]

            Nah... not nicer than me! <Tongue in cheek>

            Suki: You are not the nicest....that is for sure. lol.

            So what? I can say the same of you? I've met nicer ladies than you who had more common sense than you do! So what is the point? Truth is Truth regardless of the messenger. What do you do with THE TRUTH?


            Suki: Go talk to the nicer, common senser ones then. This boricua.....has a lot a fun right here. Lol.

            You are some conservative, pro-statehooder, holier-than-thou in Miami.
            [b] YOu continue to insist on reading me wrong. I'm no better than Eddie or you. I am simply pointing out what I see as fallacies and underlying minefields in Eddie's stance or yours. If you don't like me, I don't care. You've read me wrong because you project your dislike for anyone challenging head on and unabashedly bad presuppositions and tying them to the spiritual. If I was a poetical New Ager spouting an idealistic Utopia you would probably hug me.

            Suki: You are right you don't know me from Adam. And I really don't care for your opinions either. Lol. Utopia....lol. LOLLLLLLLLLLLL

            I frankly really don't care for your thoughts or opinions at all. And after this post I will make it a point to ignore all your attempts at cheap 'control freak' debate....no matter how personal the attacks will become. YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.[/quote]

            Hay pobrezita... you have given in to your glands versus your brains, Suki. I have treated you like a gentleman here and lookie how you treat us conservatives back.

            Suki: Gentlemen? No. You have not. RAN, Eddie and others have treated me like caballeros....Jibaro the very first time I posted to him i said something nice to him....what did I get? Accusations of being some ramera student with many boyfriends? Did he know me? No. But he assumed leftist women are all alike. YOU two assume a lot of stereotypes...all closed minded of what you think x, y, z people think.....No. No deben de quejarse cuando no reciben respeto de vuelta.

            You liberals want to keep the patent on who decides who is nice or not. I'm sorry that you can't see the deceptiveness of liberalsim and its shifting sands. Berrios and Bras are masters of this chameleon act. You, apparently, are blind to this. I like you, Suki, even if you don't like me.

            Suki: You like me? How did that happen? I don't remember how that happened....lol. Deceptiveness of conservatives dude. I see las mentiras de ellos everyday....Lol.

            Now go and hug and join Eddie for a McDonalds' coffee.

            Suki: I wish I could hug Eddie and cook for him too....pero en esta lejos...lol. Y tu no eres un sustituto para el. Lol.


            Suki: So now you are a persecuted holier-than-thou conservative Pro-statehooder PNP Christian in Miami. Persecuted by a bunch of radical, liberal left wing academicians...lol. What a whiner you are.....and as I told a friend of mine the other day....."I can not abide men who whine."
            [b]No wonder you have such a bizarre way of thinking. You totally misunderstood what I was saying. Apparently your liberal spectacles don't let you see how prevalent, especially in academia, anti-American and liberal views are. Not whining. Simply reporting reality. I guess you can't see reality, Suki. Take those "liberal" glasses off

            Suki: I dont care about liberals...I think they think erroneously. Conservatives are fools de primera tambien. Lol. And are the followers of 1 + 1=2 thinking. Everything is simplistic and lacks depth with them. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. Lol.

            Suki: What is more romantic and esoterical and idealistic than being a Protestant Christian? And being faith-based. I find the "engineer-bible thumping crowd" extremely contradictory and psychotic in philosophy....lol.
            Funny... again, you missed the point. I guess you are slamming all engineering and science folks as "mindless" and "stupid"? You are trying to connect "Engineering" with "psychotic" and "bible-thumping." I guess I could do the same and connect your "liberalism" with "butterfly chasing" and "halucinogenic drugs!" What you just did is simply an old trick called "setting up a strawman" and also "guilt by association." Sounds like you are a discriminating bigot based on what you just said. Am I right?

            Suki: I am quite sure you have taken more drugs and alcohol than I have in my lifetime....I have never smoked, never gotten drunk, never taken drugs, and never had sex outside my marriage. I do not believe in butterfly chasing. And I have lived and thought seriously about my politics, my religion and my values....and it is based on solid reality. I don't know where you get yours. If you were an artist with lots of creativity and humour I could listen to you. But so far that aspect of you is under wraps....so you say. Lol. Engineers heh? I met tons of them in my lifetime....and more than half are leftists....that I have met. Lol.

            One is math and fact based knowledge and the other requires "belief and faith" as the cornerstones of its members.....how you AnotherRican synthesize that into a cohesive philosophy is quite an enigma to me...lol. Between you and I.....you are the more emotional and glandular AR. Eddie is consistent. And I also respect consistency. LOL.
            [/quote]

            And you, Suki, are on drugs! I guess you don't have a developed capacity to see how integration is possible. Probably you've swallowed the lie that "integration is not possible." I'm sure you got that from your independentista and atheist profs. Not original.

            Suki: Never took drugs....never in my lifetime....Lol. People thought that was weird...the only ones I saw doing Coke, heroine, and crack in college were the sons and daughters of PNP's and in the states the sons and daughters of Republicans...a la Laura and George twin girls....trying to sneak into a bar and get drunk before age of 21. Me. My mother called me Ms. Goody Two shoes....never did anything remotely illegal ever....lol. YOU dont know me...that much is quite obvious. LOL.
            Suki: He probably does disdain it. But I am secure enough in myself to express my feelings. He is who he is. I respect that too. I would not want to go to my grave not letting people know where they stand emotionally with me. I can tell you right now....there are quite a few people I like on this forum. And I like letting them know that. Lol. If I am judged badly because of who I am. SO BE IT. LOL.
            I respect that even though you don't respect my worldview.
            Suki: Then enjoy the scenery AnotherRican and leave the non-believers alone....lol. Each person must look inside themselves and look deeply at who they are and what they believe in. Respect the ultimate choice. God is real for you. Good. God is not very apparent to Eddie. Fine. Why must your conviction be his conviction? Because your way is right and his is wrong. He is not some child AR, he is an adult man. With a brilliant cabeza. YOU are not convincing him. Lol.
            I leave Eddie not alone because he chooses to sidestep while continuing to post in public and make attacks. That is not the "sirene picture" of an old man you paint him to be. He is more astute than you make him to be. As a matter of fact... he is quite deceptive but lousy at it. It must be a left-over from his radical agitator days.

            Suki: People reflect back what is thrown at them...lol.

            Suki: My mom is a wise woman. I don't think you called her good names on this forum, or wise either...LOL....lol. YOU are foolish AR. And making"ideological" enemies of my mother does not endear you to me at all. Lol.
            [/quote]

            [b]Whew! I'm glad I never married a lady like you! You are a real pill! I wonder if your husband is on a leash? You distort my comments and you see what you want to, Suki. I was simply being nice to you and your mother. I don't get credit but if Eddie did it you be kissing him all over. Double-standard

            Suki: Have you heard of the saying "You better put in the time to get the rewards?" Eddie put in the time. And Another Rican....when you love a husband as much as I do mine and he loves you back.....there are no leashes...ever. Just freedom and sure freedom....and a passion and respect that never quits....lol. Respect. Love. Understanding. Shared Values and good hearts....son los ingredientes del matrimonio bueno y bonito. Lol. You dont need my kisses dude. You are here on your crusade. Lol. I am sure there are statehooder gals out there willing to be your followers...lol.
            Suki: The only one who has whined on like a kid in a playground with the "looky leti and suki" stuff....has been you. Lol. Eddie gets the way he gets with people he knows disapprove of him. YOU disapprove. Le vale you know what that you do. Why continue to fight with him? Unless you like all that hostigando and mudslinging....lol.
            I like watching pompous and dogma-filled Eddie show his true colors (dark) despite his "grandaddy" P.R. picture.

            Suki: You like attempting to get under his skin? I think he has discarded you to the heap of what Eddie calls the desuetude of archaic usages....or some such. Lol.
            Enjoying trying to needle him is quite revealing about your intentions towards him.

            Suki: The PNP have assumed power quite often....and I would not call them santitos...lol. Not going by all the jail terms and scandals that have rocked that party lately. Lol. Which is worse the atheist who is upfront and does not lie about his lack of belief? Or the one who espouses belief and piety and acts like a ruthless killer thug? Fill in the blanks...lol. [/quote]

            Both are wrong and need to be prosecuted to the max. I'll still take a foundation which believes in a Higher Law anytime than a morally failed system with no Higher Law.
            Which master do you want, Suki? Not fair to say you don't have any.


            Tough love? You are giving Eddier1 a dose of "tough love"? Who are you to him? His Daddy? His boss? His best friend? Who are you to him?....talk about delusions of grandeur....lol.
            Again, you missed the point. Again read through the Gospels and see what I mean with "tough love."
            Suki: There is no dichotomy between POLITICS and RELIGION? Well hello AnotherRican Ayatollah!! Let us make the USA then a huge Church/government....where faith and the state are one and all who are not of the same religious conviction are tried for heresy.....bring back the Spanish Inquisition Another Rican. Cuz what you espouse is very medieval thinking.
            Hello? Again you missed the point. There is no dichotomy between the spiritual beliefs and the decisions that come from those beliefs. If you believe in the "unGod" as an atheist then your political decisions will be the result of relativistic and shifting values which will tend to abuse people. That is why I camp on the fact that Berrios and Bras are bad news for P.R. They espouse shifting morality as atheists. They will lie to you in order to take control

            Suki: BIGGEST liars and ruthless thug (insert a pic of Romero Barcelo). Lol
            Suki: Ok Another Rican write up a document of what is absolute truth and then if Leti, I and others don't agree you can burn us at the stake....con charcoal lighter fluid and have yourself the MIAMI conservative, PNP witch trials...lol. My small commentary you interpret as "tumba cabeza"? Man.....whiny men again....I can't take it!!!LOL
            You changed the rules and you sidestepped my comment by ridiculing it instead of seeing that my point was: Suki does the same "tumba cabeza" that she accuses AnotherRican of. You missed the point, Suki. By now you must be embarrassed!

            Suki: Tumba cabeza.....lol. Man, if you think I am tumba cabeza you should not be in the politics forum. Lol.
            I got news buddy....it aint gonna happen. I think statehood is not only not on the USA's agenda. But I don't believe in your fundamentalist Christian stuff either.
            [/quote]

            Bingo! But you sure enjoy the product of the "faith of our founding fathers" eh, Suki? There lies the hypocrisy.There is one of your "leaps of faith."

            Suki: Founding fathers....like Thomas Jefferson that had a son by Sally Hemmings that looked so much like him that when he was serving dinners at Monticello, people would do a double take and think "who is he?" he looks just like the President of the United States....but he is a slave in his own father's house? If that is the kind of founding father's you so admire....no se. I prefer John Adams....he never advocated slavery....and was quite upset with Jefferson's lack of morals. Lol.

            Suki: How do I attack you AR? By simply stating that I don't believe in PNP and in fundamentalism in christianity principles. It was a direct (no personalisms and no foul language declarative sentence saying in no uncertain terms. I disagree with you. Is that then an attack? Disagreement? Maybe to a control freak it is. Lol.[/quote]

            Read your own descriptors you have repeatedly used (in this post) and your strong opinions about me though they are based on not knowing me, Suki.

            Suki: You got strong opinions too. And you don't know me either. Lol.

            Suki: Alla tu. Y aca yo. If you still believe in using the power of the state and military and mix it with religion especially the only "true one" on planet Earth all tu....and your medieval crusade....lol. History has shown were all the crusaders wind up.
            You mean like Stalin with his gospel of hate? Or do you mean like the Pilgrims of the Mayflower? Funny how these liberals have selective sight.

            Suki: Chacho si te digo de la cantidad de suciedades que han cometidos los conservadores a traves de la historia humana...te quedaras una eternidad.....lol. Give it a rest.

            Suki: I don't believe anything you say in terms of statehood, fundamentalist Christian conservative etc. I dont believe nor will I believe. Punto. Lol. Y que?
            [/quote]

            Suki, I respect that you have made up your mind despite the facts and against all reason. That is your choice.

            [quote]Suki: Good for you. I don't care who you think should be in power....anyone you choose is bound to believe in the "benevolent Master" theory....and I am not into any kind of human politically and morally bankrupt politician being my master....you are though AnotherRican...y alla tu. Lol.


            Folks, here is another example of Suki taking another "leap of faith." She implies that she has no "master" and therefore exempt from the rest of the human race in terms of the reality that everyone has "masters." She simply won't admit she has a Master because she would have to cry "Uncle" and swallow her pride. Is Suki being intellectuall honest here? Judge for yourself.

            Suki: It aint about Pride Rican. It is about choice. Are you gonna let people make mistakes and choices, or as Leti says....are you gonna spoon feed them and limit their growth. You choose spoon feeding and I dont. Lol.

            Suki: Master is not the right word. The Divine One is my Teacher and I am The Divine One most humble student. Humans are not the Divine One therefore I do not owe them my most sacred of sacreds....el alma.....and to my husband....the beautiful one of my soul...I owe much....to my mother and my father and those I love and adore....loyalty and support and understanding and never to waver in those. Love is Divine is it not Another Rican?
            [b] So you admit you have Masters? Including political Masters whether you like them or not? Remember what Christ said when he said that everyone has at least one master.[

            Suki: True democracies...especially those found in small countries....the people rule and public servants should serve selflessly their constituents...if they don't they should lose the next elections and be held accountable....that is the ideal. If the ideal is corrupted that is another story. MASTER is for feudal days with serfs and Igor and Ivan the Terrible and the Novgorad. Lol.

            Suki: Fine. Fight for your trip AR. I will fight for mine. I think you are romantically attached to an ideal that is a big lie invented by some human corrupt mind bent on political machinations that are very non pragmatic. Thus the crux of our dilemma.
            [b]I guess we mutually feel the same about each other. I would go further to encourage you to read the wisest man that lived Mr. Solomon and see if his statements have any political implications?

            Suki: Mr. Solomon will have political implications....Jesus life had political implications....he came to change the world....is changing the world falling into the meaning of conservative or progressive? conserve=to stay the same. Or progressive=to change or continue on.....the only ones who wants to keep conserving a corrupt system are those benefiting from it.....or those terrified of anything unfamiliar....which one are you? Lol.

            Alla tu y aca yo. Punto. What I studied? Lol. Would you respect it? Would I care if you respected what I studied in college? I know Eddier1 respects it. I don't think you would. So why tell you? Good bye Another Rican. Lol.
            [b]Well, Alla tu y aca yo. Eddie only respects whatever is in congruency with him. You are in his "love-trance" Suki. Wake up! <Suki, looking into her Lava Lamp>

            Suki: Another Rican respecting only those who agree to his circumscribed view of life.....and watching the 700 club on the tube.....Lol. Me hicistes reir con lo del lava lamp. No se lo que es....por que yo naci en el 1966. Lol.

            Suki

            Comment


            • #51
              Independencia does not necessarily provide freedom!

              [QUOTE]Originally posted by Leticia_g
              quote:
              AR - What you fail to comprehend is that just because we have a choice to, by your words, "pick our masters" it does not necessarily make it right to have our masters spoon feed us. You may be content with masters that limit our growth but I am not.
              Leti...

              I am not content with masters that limit our growth. The difference between you and me is that you believe that "independencia" will not limit our growth.

              What I would say to you about that is that your position is a presupposition where you presuppose that "independencia" equals total freedom to grow.

              I think you are extremely naive and at best in love with a romantic idea concerning our beloved Island. I personally believe that you will eventually experience the most despotic kind of life if P.R. becomes independent. All you have to look at is the our Latin neighbors and also those who are in the wings to be "leaders." I think that Berrios and Bras are scumbags full of lies but are masters of sleight of mouth. They are good hypnotherapists of the masses. Perhaps you are under their spell.

              I do not say being under the USA is perfect but I do think it is the best when you consider the alternatives. I personally believe that being under the US has not limited us as much as it will under a despotic Independencia.


              AR, I will not submit to your type of argument and bring in a respectable person that has not entered this discussion. If you have a more intelligent argument to give me, I will continue this one.
              It is questionable to call Eddie a "respectable" person unless you think like him and agree with his "Red" anarchy and overthrow of order. Eddie is far from respectable. Apparently he has you under his mantra also. What do you think of an atheist who believes that it is OK to fire live bullets into opposition protests? Eddie has not denied that he feels that is justified. As a true Communist and Marxist he believes, at his core, in lying in order to take over. That would include lying to you and looking like a lamb when in reality he is a wolf hiding his fangs. But again, that is the slumber liberals experience until it is too late.

              AR,I understand how you feel since you have been brainwashed into believig that we aren't capable to souverity.
              Nope... I've seen firsthand what Marxists and atheists believe and do in a country. No brainwashing here... simply real-time living and seeing what guys like Berrios and Bras are really all about! They will slide the cold blade into your ribs as they kiss you. They have no morality. Such will be at the helm in an independent P.R. I have traveled enough and known radical nationalists who would hang your own grandmother if it meant having more power over the "peoples." (Remember Senderos Luminosos?)

              I however believe that if the US did it and it was a baby at the time, that we can do it also. Remember, more than 80 per cent of the people in the US felt that independence was something out of our reach and that the liberals were insane or communist, yet they did achieve their independence.
              Not the same. If guys like Eddie and Camano (Berrios and Bras) were to take over they would confiscate arms and take away your constitutional rights. They would deny your God-given rights to defend yourself and live free, despite all their "rhetoric" which is a cover-up
              AR, If you read the book, "US intervention in the Caribbean and Latin America" you would realize that a lot of the problems were conjured up as a means of control by the US.
              And who wrote that book and is he a left-winger? (Like most of the media.)
              Anytime they felt they could lose some of their power over these countries, the US would support the opposing governement... limit their growth. Also AR why don't you focus on the countries that have a sucessful government. all countries in one way or another have problems. I still feel that the ability of not having your growth tampered with is one thing that I feel is very important.
              I don't deny that there are some countries that are doing better than others, especially in Latin America. My point is that even these lag behind the current P.R. under the USA protectorate. You can take just about any country in Latin America, and you will have to admit that they have gigantic problems and the standard of living is lower than what it is in P.R. as far as a large middle class is concerned.

              When you take an Island that has few natural resources the prospects are more grim. When you add the kind of leaders Berrios and Bras are, that is pure scary! (Remember how the Independientes practically lynched that UPR student for expressing his political opinion? IT is OK to be an Independentista and evangelize for the FUPI on the UPR but it is outlawed to express opposing views? This is a foretaste... those are P.R.'s future leaders!)


              Well AR, you speak of naiveness but you fail to see you own naiveness. You speak about short sightednessbut you can't seem to see beyong your nose. I can classify you naive also, because you can't see beyond what you have been conditioned for years, therefore if your limits make me naive, so be it. I can see that our goals (independence)won't have easy passuage but I am not afraid of working hard or sacrficing, This I feel will benefit our people.
              Leti... I respect your opinion. Mine is based on having lived with the reality of "independencia" in front of my eyes...both in P.R. and outside. That is not naivete, but reality.

              AR, if the US influence in our Island has been so great then why are our people's self esteem so low?
              That would happen whether it were under the US or independiente. It is a family systems issue relating to developmental processes where parents are the main influences on a person. I do not share that experience of "low self-esteem" that you describe. Low self-esteem is primarily a negative belief that either is imprinted or obliterated by bad or good parents.

              Why are our wages so low? Why is the Drug problem so immense? Why is our society suffering? Tell me why? You see the fruit does not fall that far from the tree, and if they are such great masters, then why are these things affecting our society so much?
              Leti, I can take you to socialist countries that have an epidemic with drug addiction. I can show you how a country like Venezuela, Brazil, or Mexico are disasters in terms of drug abuse and trafficking. Even in China they have problems but because they censor the news you don't get to see what is going on. They only want to present a good face.
              Tell me about prostitution in Cuba where little girls are selling themselves to tourists, despite Castro yapping that it is outlawed.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: I did not notice this post until today....hmmm I will answer...

                Originally posted by Suki

                Suki... I'm going to shorten and try to answer your massive post:

                <snip>

                Suki: I think you believe in two options. AnotherRican is right and AnotherRican is also right again. I love the Gospels. Christ had the power to destroy the Romans, and he was offered by the Devil to be the King of all the peoples on the Earth if he would betray God. Christ chose ostracization, cruxifiction and public torture and humiliation and being reviled and taunted rather than to bring his wrath down on the 'heathens' and non-believers....why? Maybe he thought the non-believers had souls too...and ones just as valuable as the believers...
                Suki, of course, unbelievers are "souls" also. Christ addressed those souls in different ways depending their presoppositions and attitudes. He did not work with the rich young ruler the same as with the masses, nor with Mary, Martha, and Lazarus as with the Pharissees. We could go on and on with examples of different strategies Christ used to address those around him. Eddie, certainly has a spirit (you call it a "soul") that God loves but that does not mean that God addresses folks like Eddie the same as a person who is searching and not playing games. Eddie made up his mind and he chose a life of cynicism that attacks God, Christianity, etc. He is not a neutral "loving" old man. That is a farce. He believes in shooting live bullets into a crowd of "malcontents" who are anti-Marxist. Ask him and see what he says.

                and he did say "my kingdom is not of this world" did he not? I interpret that to mean that the world is not a primarily spiritual place....but one controlled mostly by the evil doers. Those who claim to be Christian and pious, and instead secretly long for power and the kingdoms of Satan....money, comforts, worshipping the Golden Calf, and giving up their souls for the here and now. I think those are the PNPs.
                Communists/Marxists are folks who are jealous of others making progress in life. They are lazy folks who want to confiscate and take away your hard earned property. Look at the opulence that Commie leaders live in. I also remember seeing Ruben Berrios driving around a new car which the proletariat could not afford... he also had a bunch of young ladies with him!

                I am sorry if you believe otherwise...but the facts are...that party was conceived in 1968 and has assumed power quite a few times and I see very little of Christianity about it....and a whole lot of Satan. And you think it is a good party because your family can keep their home an possessions and not go into the sugar cane fields like in your fantasy mind thinks will happen if some 'godless socialists' like Mari Bras and Berrios come to power. The proven devils are better in your mind over the non-proven devils. It seems to me you worship the Golden Calf as well....and will follow the forked tongues devils as long as the forked tongued devils say they are God fearing and pro-USA benevolent Master.
                Proverbios 22:16 El que oprime el pobre para aumentar sus ganancias,
                O que da al rico, ciertamente se empobrecera
                Suki... If I worship the "Golden Calf" I sure don't see it. My car is an old beat up car. I have not bought furniture in over 15 years. I could go on. I do own my home and if that is what you call worshipping a "Golden Calf" then you have flipped your wig. Guys like Camano and Eddie would take my house away and move in themselves or give it to a politico friend.
                I wonder AR who oppresses the poor in Puerto Rico?
                You know, Suki... I think the supposed "poor" of P.R. are wealthy folks when compared to the third world countries like Cuba, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc. I went to school with many of those supposed "poor" and let me tell you that with government hand-outs and entitlement programs they live real well. Also, let me tell you that I have worked with the homeless population in a residency program and most are in that position because they are substance abusers. They choose that life by their decisions. Shoot... I can introduce you to homeless guys that have TV's, CD players, have good meals, and live on the streets, or in a tent in the fields. There are so many programs for people to get off their feet that almost no one today has an excuse for staying in poverty.

                And who gives to the rich? I don't like Sila either.....and the PNP are a bunch of lying jackals....who steal and oppress the Puerto Rican people. You think the PSP and the PIP and the Hostiosianos are the Devil incarnate.....lol. I can tell you right now.....who I think the Devils are.....lol. And it aint the 5% folks.
                The independentistas, especially the socialist and Marxist ones, would take away your possessions and you would have to move your whole family into one room of a house shared by many families.

                <snip>
                Suki: AR you don't know me from Adam either...yet you have prejudged not only me but atleast 3 other people on this thread only....and you have wandered from honest debate by using individuals as examples....it makes you out to be a prejudiced, callous and unfeeling crusader with a closed mind tighter than a coffin. I am sorry but that is what your stuff reads off as. And it could be you personally are not that way at all.
                I'm sorry that you interpret my exposing the underpinings of Eddie's and Camano's morality and basis for decisions as "callous, unfeeling, and prejudiced." That is your opinion. I respect it though I think your are still very naive about Marxists, Communists, and Socialists. You are tooo nice and that will hurt you some day with a guy like Eddie who will stab you in the back. They believe in that.

                Why don't you ask Eddie, since he has not answered, if he believes in shooting live bullets into a crowd to deal with "malcontents" who oppose Marxism? Lets see what he conjures up... Suki, you might get to finally see his hidden fangs come out. But that may still not make you wake up.


                Suki: I see the inherent evil in not seeing the humanity and only seeing their lack of agreement with your belief and God and equating their lack of belief as lack of belief in God=immoral, beastly inhuman animals bent on destruction. The real Devils are not the non-believers....it is the ones who espouse belief but act like Ruthless, killer thugs and jackals....who betray their people's freedom for the price of silk clothes and worshipping the Golden Calf....the same one who controls from afar but does not concede any self determination and keeps everyone blind and desperate...fill in the blanks...YOU dont believe what I am saying and I dont believe what you are thinking and believe. And never the twain shall meet. Lol.
                Then I guess you must believe that God is morally relativistic and that morally anything goes with God? If you believe this then you are a practical atheist.

                Suki, you will find rotten apples in every group concievable. Even Christ had one rotten apple. That does not mean you throw out the baby with the bathwater.

                Suki: "...some unknown dude (YOU) who insults my friend and treats him bad and I stay quiet? "
                Why don't you have the same standard when he attacks Jibaro and Me, Suki? That seems like a double standard. I have engaged Eddie, in the beginning with great respect, but he quickly began to attack me. It then became open-game if he wanted to play that way. I guess you did not know that. You only see what you want to but miss Eddie's antics that qualify for your wrath also.
                I would be an idiot to stay quiet, and let that happen....and yes Eddie gets tough. And his language is....tough. I know the whys of why he is like that.....I know exactly why he is like that. I am not his mama to be telling him what is allowed or not

                Then why are trying to be my Mama, Suki? You will nail me for much lighter stuff but will not your favorite Marxist who uses greater insults and tougher language.


                You lost your chance with the insults you threw at me....lol. People who insult me....naw they are not my friend....I am not into masochism. Lol.
                Suki, you have called me names here and other places. You have attacked me and labeled me as an "internet addict" and yet when I point out to you that you have me passed in the amount of posts you have put here, you say nothing and stubbornly refuse to admit your double-standard. You just LOL and continue to LOL and do some more LOL as possibly a sidetrack from the issues being pointed out.

                I guess you will label all believers in Communism then "rejectors of God".
                Yes, by their own admission and tenets. Eddie is a hard-core Commie and Marxist. Do you know what that means? Maybe you don't realize that and that is the problem. I'm speaking to someone on a different planet.

                I would then conclude you see this as very offensive to your fundamentalism and they are ruthless thugs etc. etc. I have talked to Eddie at length Another Rican and he is not a thug (you might believe whole-heartedly that he is.....so what? I don't).
                Because he has not shown you his fangs yet, Suki. They are there. You don't want to see them. You have decided subconsciously that he cannot be that "evil." Someday you will be surprised.

                Ask him about his belief in how he would take care of malcontents if he could... do it, Suki... or you don't really mean what you say!

                Suki: People who insult and judge and try to manipulate and control others thoughts and deepest held beliefs with the excuse that they are protecting a society from the DEVIL.....and go out looking to confront the Devil on a forum board where they represent statistically only 5% of the voting public are not thinking logically. 95% of the voters who are running Puerto Rico into the ground are not on this board they are in la Palma's board and the PPD board. Lol. Look for the Devils there....maybe you will find who set up and killed those kids in Cerro Maravilla. Unless you think they deserved to die for being Independentistas...and believe all those lies that that devil spouted.....then I would say.....keep worshipping your Golden Calf liars.....porque de cristianos ellos no tienen ni un pito.
                Though I snipped for space what you said about "violent husbands and control" that is a big leap faith to say that this is the same with why I post. First, I have fun here watching the inconsistencies of Eddie who tries to be pompous and pronounce dogma when, in reality, it is purely his Marxism and godless atheism controling him. Second, I think you take your model too far and make gospel truth of it. I can say the same thing in turn.
                That is guaranteed. I have never met thugs who are as cultured and intellectual as he is. Or sensitive to the things I love the most in life, music, art, poetry and literature. He is all that and more.
                Then Ben Ladin must be coool to you! He loves his kids, is "benevolent" to village people, and is very learned and intelligent. He is a person of the peoples!
                Suki: Lol. What are you gonna do about this dangerous, decieving man AR? He is old, he has been persecuted, he is victorious in my opinion. And he is intelligent and lovely. What are you gonna do now....teach him a lesson. Lol. Ay Bendito.
                Aye Bendito! So anyone who has been persecuted (maybe really PROSECUTED!)is your heroe. Is that how it works? I can show you my scars and I don't think you will feel touchy feelings for me. Why? Because you won't see the heniousness of what people do simply because they get you under they hypnotic spell of "beauty, arts, music, culture, and understanding." That is deceptive, Suki. That is "gland-based" decision making... something that Eddie detests.

                Suki: You don't post about life, music, art and poetry and literature. I welcome all your commentary and opinions. I love the subjects. Go ahead. Post about that stuff. Lol. It will give me a truer picture of who you are Another Rican. And artists and lovers of art with demonstrable talent....always conquer my heart. Regardless of PNP defects. Lol. No sinceramente post on those subjects. I don't know you yet. I will not judge you.
                Thank you. We'll see... if I have as much time as Eddie does then I will. Until then, he has your heart!
                I don't care if Eddie has below poverty income, and lives in a hovel. His mind is sophisticated and he obviously has knowledge on a great spectrum of subjects. He has treated me with a great deal of respect and kindness. And so I reciprocate that. Bottom line I like the man. You are not going to persuade me otherwise.
                Ok, OK, OK... you can have him then!
                Suki: I am 36, born in 1966. Born in el hospital Presbiteriano en la Ashford Ave. San Juan Puerto Rico. I have another 30 years to go before I get to qualify for the McDonald's Coffee. And I would refuse to let Eddie drink that stuff....I would make something a lot nicer....lol. He is not cute. Too dignified and argumentative to be 'cute'. I will not tell him how I see him...it would make him a little embarassed. And he is a cool one. Aunque tiene mi respeto y mucho mas. Lol.
                You're a baby!

                <snip>
                Suki: You are not conducive to rational debate with Atheists....lol. Or communists. So tit for tat...entiendes? I do not hang out watching for Another Rican vs Eddier1 round one battle of titans....nope. I head for the threads where Eddie can debate with people who just discuss and engage his mind without insults or judgementalisms...where you can actually sit down and analyze a subject....without resorting to name calling and heresy...burned at the stake trials.LOL

                He likes sticking to subjects that are being discussed.
                He does not follow that rule on this forum. That's for sure. Neither he nor Camano.

                Suki: You guys are judgemental. Atheist=Devil. Marxist=Devil. Leftist=Evil. It is in everything you write. Lol.
                First, you apparently don't know what those terms truly mean in their deepest sense. (Hence you are naive). Second, you are judgemental of us who don't see the world the way you see the world: Anyone singing poetry to you is your heroe. You are guilty of the same in reverse.
                Suki: If what he says is so repulsive...you have two choices....attack him (like you have been doing) or ignore him and move on. But one thing I can guarantee...control him or change his mind....you will not do. Not to him. Or to me either. lol.
                I understand. And when you see him being a hypocrite, please do us a favor, don't cover your eyes... as in his position on how to take care of malcontents or other subjects.

                Suki: This is a public forum it is anyone's turf...do your thing. If you want a statehooders only forum go make one and get some members....don't lie to yourself AR you come here cuz the opposition is here and you love to debate and do your PNP propaganda trip. Go ahead....just don't whine when you get challenged as well.....that is definitely immature. Lol.
                I don't whine... yet you guys don't see when Eddie whines in his repetitive posts. I'm simply pointing out to you, Suki, and others the open inconsistencies of these liberals that apparently no one is pointing out. If I whine, I whine about you and others being selective in what they want to "see."
                Suki: YOU are not Christ....and Eddie is not gonna bow. Goes against everything he is as a man. The exact thing I respect the most about him. Lol. If you believe in God you must know God made Eddie. If he did then let him love his creation.....and let his creation be himself. No crees?

                So many men I have met that are more intelligent than you, wiser, kinder and nicer and more Christian than you AnotherRican.
                You mean, they are soft and wimpy men, right? I'm not that kind. I rather be "wild" and "uncontrollable" by you and the liberal women of this forum... LOL
                Suki: Gentlemen? No. You have not. RAN, Eddie and others have treated me like caballeros....Jibaro the very first time I posted to him i said something nice to him....what did I get? Accusations of being some ramera student with many boyfriends? Did he know me? No. But he assumed leftist women are all alike. YOU two assume a lot of stereotypes...all closed minded of what you think x, y, z people think.....No. No deben de quejarse cuando no reciben respeto de vuelta.
                I would encourage you to look at ALL of Eddie's posts and see that he is no Choir boy.
                Suki: I wish I could hug Eddie and cook for him too....pero en esta lejos...lol. Y tu no eres un sustituto para el. Lol.
                <Violins playing in the background...>

                Ah shucks, Suki, you mean you won't cook for me but you will for the old toast Commie?


                [quote]
                Suki: I dont care about liberals...I think they think erroneously. Conservatives are fools de primera tambien. Lol. And are the followers of 1 + 1=2 thinking. Everything is simplistic and lacks depth with them. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. Lol. [/qoute]

                You know, Suki, I totally agree, for once, with you!
                Keep in mind that you are a liberal by what you have explained about yourself.

                Suki: I am quite sure you have taken more drugs and alcohol than I have in my lifetime....I have never smoked, never gotten drunk, never taken drugs, and never had sex outside my marriage.
                Nope... same here, even though most around me were getting high on LSD and other things. I can claim the same.

                Engineers heh? I met tons of them in my lifetime....and more than half are leftists....that I have met. Lol.
                Then they weren't true engineers... They were living in a dichotomy.
                Suki: You like attempting to get under his skin? I think he has discarded you to the heap of what Eddie calls the desuetude of archaic usages....or some such. Lol.
                Enjoying trying to needle him is quite revealing about your intentions towards him.
                Lets not be so pietistic... Eddie does the same. I enjoy needling him because he lies and portrays himself as a lamb when he is a ravenous wolf hiding his fangs.
                Suki: Chacho si te digo de la cantidad de suciedades que han cometidos los conservadores a traves de la historia humana...te quedaras una eternidad.....lol. Give it a rest.
                Yes, all types of men have committed bad things. The problem, Suki, is when you see Eddie and Camano exempting their comaradas of this. Therein lies their hypocrisy.
                Suki: It aint about Pride Rican. It is about choice. Are you gonna let people make mistakes and choices, or as Leti says....are you gonna spoon feed them and limit their growth. You choose spoon feeding and I dont. Lol.
                What you don't realize is that "independencia" is another form of "spoon-feeding." With independencia, you don't get a spoon, and no food!"
                Suki: True democracies...especially those found in small countries....the people rule and public servants should serve selflessly their constituents...if they don't they should lose the next elections and be held accountable....that is the ideal. If the ideal is corrupted that is another story. MASTER is for feudal days with serfs and Igor and Ivan the Terrible and the Novgorad. Lol.
                And the reality is that most of those little (and big) countries... the "idea is corrupted." Why should P.R. be any different... because you say so?
                Suki: Mr. Solomon will have political implications....Jesus life had political implications....he came to change the world....is changing the world falling into the meaning of conservative or progressive? conserve=to stay the same. Or progressive=to change or continue on.....the only ones who wants to keep conserving a corrupt system are those benefiting from it.....or those terrified of anything unfamiliar....which one are you? Lol.
                Suki, I'm a progressive conservative! That's a fact.
                Suki: Another Rican respecting only those who agree to his circumscribed view of life.....and watching the 700 club on the tube.....Lol. Me hicistes reir con lo del lava lamp. No se lo que es....por que yo naci en el 1966. Lol.
                I don't watch the 700 Club... and I don't agree with Robertson. I don't watch TBN ... as a matter of fact the only thing I watch on TV is the news, some PBS documentaries, and "24 Hours" with Sutherland.

                <Sitar music and incense emanating from Suki's window.>

                Comment


                • #53
                  LMAO

                  Progressive-conservative?

                  Is that like Jew-Nazi, commie-capitalist, good-evil, female-male (no offense to hermaphrodites )?


                  Does it mean you try to take one step forward, just to take two backward?

                  Naaah..it's probably the combination of ignorance with a lack of conviction.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Iluminado,
                    Me haces reir demasiado, chico. Lol. Well I am gathering a series of adjectives that encase AnotherRican's ideology in a nutshell. Here goes. I am sure he won't be able to resist...doing a counter post...because he suffers from CF disorder. Well here is the summation:

                    BENEVOLENT MASTER THEORY--"We are all slaves to some authority and must not question it ever, why? Because it will release the innate evil and darkness and selfishness that humanity has deep inside." Another Rican should talk to a PHd theologian in the religion section.....the man has counseled for 30 years and is a devout Christian protestant minister....everything AnotherRican spouts...contradicts the theologian with the PHd...who debates daily with atheists and converts them with a lot more effectiveness than AnotherRican does. But since AnotherRican does not look for threads with intelligent debate and dedicates himself to witch hunting and commie busting....he remains in ignorance on which approach actually works. Lol.

                    5% of the Puerto Rican voting public are a threat to Puerto Rican civilization--yep the reason why PR has drugs, crime, and poverty, unemployment is lack of morality in the home...and lack of biblical standards in politics. He is a 1+1=2 man all the way. BLAME IT ALL ON THE DEGENERATION OF THE PRACTICE OF BIBLICAL MORAL STANDARDS and on our degenerate matriarchal latino culture. Utah and other states such as bible thumping protestant states who have the highest church attendance of Baptist, etc denominations out of all the states....happen to have the highest divorce statistics in the USA. Now I think prayer and meditation are effective....and healing things....what I don't believe in and I think is detrimental...is thinking that families are not subject to systemic factors innate in the historical, political and social and Economic structure of a given society. I have met the loveliest most believing Christians.....coping with horrible problems...problems created not by them but by 'the system'. And it affects their lives....but AnotherRicans don't cope with that they cope with individual's own fault factor. IF the economy sucks in a town AnotherRican and Daddy and Mommy can't get a job....they could never afford college tuition now could they? And that lack of skills does not affect if they can give their kids a decent education right? Not in today's property tax based school system....no...everything is the individual's own fault....and if they just become Christian they will be ok....like Millions of the Mexican and Latin American families I know....they believe and are decent Christians....yet they live in desperation and squalor....and most of the leaders are "christian". George Bush is Christian....then why are there poor kids in Appalachia, Oklahoma, Texas? Why don't they make sure no child is hungry ever and has the same access to a decent school and education regardless of how much tax base the kid's neighborhood is located in? If Bush believes in Pro Life and is against abortion why is China on the MOST FAVORED NATION STATUS in trade with the USA? Could it be that economic interests override moral mealy mouthed political bullcrap espousals to gain votes from the 1+1=2 simplistic analysis crowd? What happened during the George Bush senior years while he was CIA director way back in the 1970's? But no no looking into the files of the conservative dirt heap. Better just focus on Mari Bras and Berrios....with a dead son.....and giving up a senate seat to make a point....lol. Those are the true devils...and I think AnotherRican really suffered at the hands of all those lefty pipiolos and pipiolas on the UPR campus....after all the PIP is the winning party and gets big fat votes in Puerto Rico and can really take away his spoon and his dish and his fifteen year old furniture...Lol. What a tonto. These godless heathens....he probably smiles that Mari Bras son was killed 'mysteriously' and thinks...."goody, goody, that godless devil gets his due'. I would not wish a dead child on my worst enemy. DOUBLE STANDARD MAN. MORALITY and POLITICS and RELIGION are all mixed in one big morass of resentment, petty jealousies, and paranoia...he blames the wrong people, for the wrong reasons....and will continue to do so.....why? Because he is stuck...stuck in his adolescent days when all these free love, pot smoking 60's radical students made him feel bad for voting for a clean cut Christian party.....the clean cut jackals of statehood.

                    He stated, Iluminado in the above post......that atheists should be prosecuted. That is very telling. Why did he say that? Well, if you don't believe in God or have an absence of belief then you are a perverted weirdo and a threat to civilization.....belief overrides observance of behavior...BEHAVIOR and action are irrelevant...what counts is what you believe. To him you believe in atheism....you are immoral and despicable....he does not separate moral compass from thoughts on faith or belief or lack of belief. HE is completely glandular. lol. While Christians can be sick perverts molesting children, raping people, lying and stealing...but they lie and hide it...and confess or repent and all is clean again....until the next time 'the dark side' takes over...while an atheist could never have done any of the above....but since he does not believe is a lot more threatening and degenerate....now that is the epitome of irrationality and medieval thinking ......but it is a reflection of 'progressive-conservative'.

                    Iluminado....no me hagas reir chico. Now here comes the counter post....Control Freak Rican is gotta respond he cant help it....he can not be the one to not have the last word. HE WILL CONVENIENTLY EDIT MY WORDS TO SUIT HIS machinations like he did to the above posts....like the clever little bribon....he is. Lol. Unless he can control himself and leave the post alone. Then I would say the man has some iota of self-control.

                    another rican has another behavior.....anything that does not fall into his 'pattern' he questions 'standards' and says......when we conservatives engage you.....what he does not realize is Iluminado is that we are still waiting for a solid argument from the man....everything falls into the 5% blame category and atheism. PUERTO RICO's problems are never the fault or through the fault of the BENEVOLENT Master.....it is always the fault of he inadequate and lowly SERVANT and as such this is our burden.....for our foolishness in believing in FReedom.

                    No wonder Eddie and he are exact opposites....Another Rican believes in restriction and masters......and Eddie due to past life experiences and philosophy concludes that Freedom is the most important thing in the world....absolute freedom...that which Another Rican steadfastly feels human beings should not have....because it will unleash PANDORA's Box...lol. Those two will never understand or respect each other. Frankly, a man like Eddier1 who believes in Freedom and choice in a big way has a lot more sentido en su cabeza over a man like Another Rican who feels masters are the daily bread and ways of things in this hierarchical chaotic, dirty Latin America, and his fear of losing 15 year old furniture to godless socialists bent on heathenism is beyond horrific. There are many socialist countries in the world and breaking down doors to take away your fruit of the looms and Lazy-Boy recliner is not what they are about. Iluminado, AnotherRiqueno stubbornly refuses to blame the ones who have a proven track record of lyin',stealin' and cheatin' and instead is the Elliot Ness of rican 'red' godless socialists on the internet. Anotherriqueno is allowing his illogical irrationality dominate him. And the BLACK HORSE of the dual horse Chariot in Another Rican's world is headed for doom......lol.

                    And to protect himself from the Mari Bras and the Berrios terrorist godless ones....AnotherRican carries a big gun...cuz the definition of personal freedom is to have a benevolent master in charge....that preserves people's freedoms but keeps them powerless in a participatory democracy.....and contradicts their own premises in their own constitution.....no taxation without representation...one man/woman....one vote....as long as it is in the 50 states. And the gun is gonna keep these 5% demons from Another Rican's door.

                    Iluminado yo me rio de verdad. Mi madre que no cree en pistolas ni violencia, pero si en protestar en contra de las violaciones de las libertades basicas de ninos.....y en contra de discriminacion social, racial, religioso....hace enemigos de gente en KKK land Oklahoma City que si creen como el another riqueno and have big guns too....they go after that 'radical' weird....aint a Mexican and we don't know who she is....spanish speaking troublemaker....and they shoot at her car on the freeway and try to kill her...they fill up her answering machines with "you...filthy God-damned wetback!! Me and Bubba here is gonna kill you!! That dirty Mexican had what was coming to him...and you is interfering.....we is gonna get you!!" and they vote Republican too, and they go to church these folks like good so-called 'christians'. And they carry a big gun....to use on women with no guns.....like Mami. And she aint terrified. She says.....I will keep fighting for my ideals....and they won't make me pick up a gun.....but they are not gonna shut my mouth either....lol. And those KKK are the majority in her neighborhood. They have tags on their trucks and confederacy flags on their windows....and they know who is making trouble by trying to get the Mexicans some justice....and they don't like her at all. Lol. I wonder if paranoid Another Rican could stand the heat of that kitchen? NAW.....el necesita una pistola pa' protegerlo de Mari Bras y Berrios alla en Miami. Lol.

                    Arrogant is Another Rican. He is. He tells Leticia Gutierrez Velazquez an older woman with two grown daughters, who works and educated herself her whole life, and who is in her 50's that she is short-sighted and naive for wanting to give up some personal comforts and monies....and willing to sacrifice for her fellow Puerto Ricans should the time come for tightening the belt for independence......because the benevolent MASTER is gonna make sure our belts are tightened real hard....when he no longer can tell us to eat the food off a spoon and we say "where is my plate? where do I hunt? Where do I get my own....for my people?" "when you say so only?" "Get out of my face...you are not my master!!" I am not a cripple, ignorant, fool with no brains, heart or will. I AM A BORICUA, and CAN DO for myself". YEp, Leticia is the NAIVE ONE AND THE MISTAKEN ONE..........I DON'T think so!!! Lol.

                    Que Viva Puerto Rico libre y soberana!! Y que todos los puertorriquenos de distintas fes, y distintas circunstancias digan......

                    Queremos la libertad.....la libertad......la libertad......LA LIBERTAD!!!!!

                    [Edited by Suki on 11th December 2002 at 03:16]

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Puertoricans are Loyal to their heritage, thats why its still not a state.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        How interesting, another Canadian...

                        Not only to their heritage, but their culture, traditions, and way of life..but, also to their pockets. Many Puerto Ricans are afraid to break the bond and that means fear of change and fear of losing money. Too bad huh?
                        Now, I have not seen you here before since I have been a member...but it's interesting to see another Canandian in the forum who is a senior member..hmmm, can it be you Camano? LOL

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Iluminado's Lightbulb is burned out!

                          Originally posted by iluminado
                          LMAO

                          Progressive-conservative?

                          Is that like Jew-Nazi, commie-capitalist, good-evil, female-male (no offense to hermaphrodites )?


                          Does it mean you try to take one step forward, just to take two backward?

                          Naaah..it's probably the combination of ignorance with a lack of conviction.
                          None of the above. I guess you liberal left-wingers believe they have the patent on "open-mindedness."

                          ILu baby, you don't know me. I guess you are blind to the fact that Liberals are "open-minded" until their feeble tenets are challenged and then they play dirty and change the rules. They turn into bigots. You see it happens in liberal academia circles, the media, and liberal politics all the time.

                          If you want to play "dirty" I could use your tactics and ascribe oxymoronic liberal states such as "liberal-illumined", "loving-liberal", "intelligent-liberal", etc.

                          In your book all conservatives are "stupid" and "dumb" and yet you fail to consider minds such as Bill Buckley, Jr., Sowell, George F. Will, etc. Why don't you write them a letter and call them stupid?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Leticia G

                            Originally posted by Suki
                            White Opal....Opalo Blanco. I have known you on this site for a while....a wiser, more compassionate woman it is hard to find. Lol. There is nothing innately selfish about you Senora. Maybe for some people selfishness is their 'fardo' in this life....lol. You are definitely a woman to be admired. Lol. You have a lovely home. And you are a professional woman....but none of the 'trappings' or creature comforts of 'benevolent masters' can replace your dignity. Your respect. Your sense of personal freedom and true meaning in life. True wisdom is definitely the hallmark of your character....and El Boricua is right as well. Though I see AR's humanity in his statements...now. I see why he thinks the way he does...he is consistent. I must concede his ideology does not contradict his values. Lol. I just don't share those values at all. And neither do you.

                            saludos. Suki.
                            Suki, mi hermana

                            Perdona que no lei esto hasta ahora. Gracias por todas tu palabras y por tu alavo. Lo aprecio mucho con toda sinceridad.

                            No te preocupes que aunque no ataco a gente ignorante aveces, yo se mi valor, mi poder y tambien se que la fuerza interna que tengo jamas deja que palabras de otros me hieran tan facilmente. Tambien se que el caracter mio se pone mas fuerte entre mas traten de herirme. Creo que los valores que uno aprende desde joven son lo que cuenta, creo que aunque "masters" le crean que te pueden dominar, eso no es posible a menos que uno lo deje que sea.

                            Por eso hay personas que viven su vida esperando que su "Master" le digan si deben hablar, comer, vivir o opinar. Eso jamas lo encontraran en una persona que sepa que lo que ellos creen es bueno, no solo para ellos sino para todos. Porque el labor y el sudor, no es malo para el caracter de la persona, sino ayuda a esa persona a tener un caracter fuerte. Para mi eso es lo que cuenta. No tengo problema sacrificar por lo que en verdad creo.

                            Cuidate mi hermana y gracias de nuevo.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Suki wants consevatives to lay down and permit themselves to be kicked. Dif. Rules?

                              Originally posted by Suki
                              Iluminado,
                              Me haces reir demasiado, chico. Lol. Well I am gathering a series of adjectives that encase AnotherRican's ideology in a nutshell. Here goes. I am sure he won't be able to resist...doing a counter post...because he suffers from CF disorder. Well here is the summation:
                              Totally unfair and bigoted remark! You can post all you want (over 500 times to date) and you can answer conservative's posts but we conservatives have a disorder (you don't?) and we cannot answer your posts, according to you? That smacks of bigottry, Suki. I guess you are sheding your "nice" aura?

                              BENEVOLENT MASTER THEORY--"We are all slaves to some authority and must not question it ever,
                              For claiming to be an intelligent person you sure are not showing it, Suki. You see, you are deliberately misrepresenting me. I have never believed in NOT QUESTIONING authority. Those who know me, would laugh at your ridiculous statement. You see, you are creating a cartoon strawman of conservatives and then you try to blow YOUR strawman down. That's not honest or having intellectual integrity, Suki. You should know better, lady!Shame on you!

                              why? Because it will release the innate evil and darkness and selfishness that humanity has deep inside."
                              Nope... I've never said that and you are lying. That is your own strawman, Suki. Shame on you! You are acting like a bigot here.

                              Another Rican should talk to a PHd theologian in the religion section.....the man has counseled for 30 years and is a devout Christian protestant minister....everything AnotherRican spouts...contradicts the theologian with the PHd...who debates daily with atheists and converts them with a lot more effectiveness than AnotherRican does. But since AnotherRican does not look for threads with intelligent debate and dedicates himself to witch hunting and commie busting....he remains in ignorance on which approach actually works. Lol.
                              Baloney! I have a seminary bakcground and have taken plenty of training in exegesis and original languages under some of the top minds in Biblical Exegesis. All power to the other gentleman. I respect whatever he is all about. We all have our paths. He has his, I have mine. Are you now trying to mother us here, Suki? It won't work.

                              If you would simply do what I asked you to, mujer, you would easily see that Christ was no mild-toast syrupy preacher. He treated individuals individually. Each different. Some he unloaded a double-barrel shot-gun on and others He was as gently as with a flickering wick. There is no one container to put Christ in. You fail to see that simple truth evident by a simple perusal of the Gospels.
                              Of course, I'm starting to think that you don't think. You are like a little girl who covers her ears and starts singing when others around her are trying to point something out to her.


                              [qoute]
                              5% of the Puerto Rican voting public are a threat to Puerto Rican civilization[/quote]

                              Suki... now you are being plain s????d. I guess you have never heard of leverage? Or lets see... the 80-20 percent principle? I guess you fail to remember that it only took a handful of thugs to take Russia into the Dark Ages. Remember Cuba? It only took a few jerks to take over. How about the media? So few control so much of the conduit of what people see and hear. Of course, because of the internet, this stronghold is being broken slowly.

                              --yep the reason why PR has drugs, crime, and poverty, unemployment is lack of morality in the home...and lack of biblical standards in politics. He is a 1+1=2 man all the way. BLAME IT ALL ON THE DEGENERATION OF THE PRACTICE OF BIBLICAL MORAL STANDARDS and on our degenerate matriarchal latino culture. Utah and other states such as bible thumping protestant states who have the highest church attendance of Baptist, etc denominations out of all the states....happen to have the highest divorce statistics in the USA.
                              Suki... you have your stats incorrect. Utah is not primarily Baptist. It is Mormon. Try again.

                              That is fine if you want to trust more a liberal God-hater atheist who has not qualms of lying in your face versus another sinner that is trying to live his life under Divine principles. Both are sinners. Both will fail. I put my bet and my odds with the guy who at least feels that he is accountable to a Supreme Being Ultimately. Sorry you don't feel that way. I respect it even if you don't my position.

                              Now I think prayer and meditation are effective....and healing things....what I don't believe in and I think is detrimental...is thinking that families are not subject to systemic factors innate in the historical, political and social and Economic structure of a given society.
                              There you go again! I've never said that "families are not subject to systemic factors innate in historical, political, and economic structure... and I would also add, genetic and other familial structures. Suki... that is just plain bigotted on your part. You put words into my mouth and you create me into something I am not. Suki, you are sloppy and careless in what you say. Go back to your chasing butterflies... you are better at that or go mother your husband!

                              I have met the loveliest most believing Christians.....coping with horrible problems...problems created not by them but by 'the system'. And it affects their lives....but AnotherRicans don't cope with that they cope with individual's own fault factor.
                              You know, Suki... I've never said what you say I said. I don't believe it is 100 percent an individual. I do believe that an individual can CHOOSE to change his destiny instead of letting things happen to him. The environment is certainly important but not the sole cause. It seems that you liberals want to take the "free will" out of humanity when it comes to problems. You want to blame the "system" which is what many liberal do well...

                              IF the economy sucks in a town AnotherRican and Daddy and Mommy can't get a job....they could never afford college tuition now could they? And that lack of skills does not affect if they can give their kids a decent education right? Not in today's property tax based school system....no...everything is the individual's own fault....and if they just become Christian they will be ok....like Millions of the Mexican and Latin American families I know....they believe and are decent Christians....yet they live in desperation and squalor....and most of the leaders are "christian". George Bush is Christian....then why are there poor kids in Appalachia, Oklahoma, Texas? Why don't they make sure no child is hungry ever and has the same access to a decent school and education regardless of how much tax base the kid's neighborhood is located in? If Bush believes in Pro Life and is against abortion why is China on the MOST FAVORED NATION STATUS in trade with the USA? Could it be that economic interests override moral mealy mouthed political bullcrap espousals to gain votes from the 1+1=2 simplistic analysis crowd? What happened during the George Bush senior years while he was CIA director way back in the 1970's? But no no looking into the files of the conservative dirt heap. Better just focus on Mari Bras and Berrios....with a dead son.....and giving up a senate seat to make a point....lol. Those are the true devils...and I think AnotherRican really suffered at the hands of all those lefty pipiolos and pipiolas on the UPR campus....after all the PIP is the winning party and gets big fat votes in Puerto Rico and can really take away his spoon and his dish and his fifteen year old furniture...Lol. What a tonto.
                              Suki... you are starting to sound like a crabby old lady.
                              Listen... I am no stranger to what you talk about. I have been in some of the worse areas of LA and I have also extensively worked with many who have lost everything. I have never said that environmental issues are not important. Where you and I defer is that you take on the "victim" mentality and therefore "mother" these people forever thus creating a parasitical/co-dependent relationship that is not healthy. It destroys the self-responsibility God gave us and it destroys our capacity to do amazing things.... why? Because such a scenario creates dependency in hand-outs. But, I don't see hope in you seeing this since you only want to see what you want to see.

                              These godless heathens....he probably smiles that Mari Bras son was killed 'mysteriously' and thinks...."goody, goody, that godless devil gets his due'. I would not wish a dead child on my worst enemy. DOUBLE STANDARD MAN. MORALITY and POLITICS and RELIGION are all mixed in one big morass of resentment, petty jealousies, and paranoia...he blames the wrong people, for the wrong reasons....and will continue to do so.....why? Because he is stuck...stuck in his adolescent days when all these free love, pot smoking 60's radical students made him feel bad for voting for a clean cut Christian party.....the clean cut jackals of statehood.
                              None of the above.
                              He stated, Iluminado in the above post......that atheists should be prosecuted.
                              Where did I say such? That is a lie? If they or any Christian commits a crime they should be prosecuted. Nevertheless, lady, what in the world are you talking about? Pobrecito esposo de Suki!
                              [quote]
                              That is very telling. Why did he say that? Well, if you don't believe in God or have an absence of belief then you are a perverted weirdo and a threat to civilization.....belief overrides observance of behavior...BEHAVIOR and action are irrelevant...what counts is what you believe. To him you believe in atheism....you are immoral and despicable....he does not separate moral compass from thoughts on faith or belief or lack of belief. HE is completely glandular. lol. While Christians can be sick perverts molesting children, raping people, lying and stealing...but they lie and hide it...and confess or repent and all is clean again....until the next time 'the dark side' takes over...while an atheist could never have done any of the above....but since he does not believe is a lot more threatening and degenerate....now that is the epitome of irrationality and medieval thinking ......but it is a reflection of 'progressive-conservative'. [/qoute]

                              [qoute]None of the above... once again. Suki is becoming irrational. Are you going through PMS now?[/b]
                              Iluminado....no me hagas reir chico. Now here comes the counter post....Control Freak Rican is gotta respond he cant help it....
                              Lady, you are a bigot because only you can answer posts and we cannot. Look at yourself. You post more than I have ever had (over 500 times to date) and you call me an INternet Controlfreak. Look into the mirror, lady. You're being irrational.

                              he can not be the one to not have the last word. HE WILL CONVENIENTLY EDIT MY WORDS TO SUIT HIS machinations like he did to the above posts....like the clever little bribon....he is. Lol. Unless he can control himself and leave the post alone. Then I would say the man has some iota of self-control.
                              Now you are creating some more strawmen. Please take your medication Suki. You are loosing it.
                              another rican has another behavior.....anything that does not fall into his 'pattern' he questions 'standards' and says......when we conservatives engage you.....what he does not realize is Iluminado is that we are still waiting for a solid argument from the man....
                              Folks... to Suki... all arguments from conservatives are not solid.

                              Your glasses have liberal mud, that is why you can't see the light, Suki.


                              everything falls into the 5% blame category and atheism. PUERTO RICO's problems are never the fault or through the fault of the BENEVOLENT Master.....it is always the fault of he inadequate and lowly SERVANT and as such this is our burden.....for our foolishness in believing in FReedom.
                              More lies and misreprensentations. SEe the pattern with these looney liberals?

                              [quote]
                              No wonder Eddie and he are exact opposites....Another Rican believes in restriction and masters......and Eddie due to past life experiences and philosophy concludes that Freedom is the most important thing in the world....absolute freedom...[/qoute]

                              That is a lie. If he truly does, he is self-decieved for he does not see the implications of his moral code and beliefs.

                              Why don't you do what I have been asking you to do? I asked you to ask Eddie if he agrees with the Marxists shooting live bullets into an Chavez-opposition demonstration. 3 were killed and over 30 wounded. Some women and children. Let's see if you have any gumption and walk your talk.


                              that which Another Rican steadfastly feels human beings should not have....because it will unleash PANDORA's Box...lol. Those two will never understand or respect each other. Frankly, a man like Eddier1 who believes in Freedom

                              Eddie believes in freedom... yes "freedom" as he defines it under Marxist tenets. Remember his remark about "taking care of malcontents?

                              You don't want to see this Suki.

                              and choice in a big way has a lot more sentido en su cabeza over a man like Another Rican who feels masters are the daily bread and ways of things in this hierarchical chaotic, dirty Latin America, and his fear of losing 15 year old furniture to godless socialists bent on heathenism is beyond horrific. There are many socialist countries in the world and breaking down doors to take away your fruit of the looms and Lazy-Boy recliner is not what they are about. Iluminado, AnotherRiqueno stubbornly refuses to blame the ones who have a proven track record of lyin',stealin' and cheatin' and instead is the Elliot Ness of rican 'red' godless socialists on the internet. Anotherriqueno is allowing his illogical irrationality dominate him. And the BLACK HORSE of the dual horse Chariot in Another Rican's world is headed for doom......lol.
                              You are irrational!
                              And to protect himself from the Mari Bras and the Berrios terrorist godless ones....AnotherRican carries a big gun...cuz the definition of personal freedom is to have a benevolent master in charge....that preserves people's freedoms but keeps them powerless in a participatory democracy.....and contradicts their own premises in their own constitution.....no taxation without representation...one man/woman....one vote....as long as it is in the 50 states. And the gun is gonna keep these 5% demons from Another Rican's door.
                              Total misrepresentation of my position.

                              Iluminado yo me rio de verdad. Mi madre que no cree en pistolas ni violencia, pero si en protestar en contra de las violaciones de las libertades basicas de ninos.....y en contra de discriminacion social, racial, religioso....hace enemigos de gente en KKK land Oklahoma City que si creen como el another riqueno and have big guns too....they go after that 'radical' weird....aint a Mexican and we don't know who she is....spanish speaking troublemaker....and they shoot at her car on the freeway and try to kill her...they fill up her answering machines with "you...filthy God-damned wetback!! Me and Bubba here is gonna kill you!! That dirty Mexican had what was coming to him...and you is interfering.....we is gonna get you!!" and they vote Republican too, and they go to church these folks like good so-called 'christians'. And they carry a big gun....to use on women with no guns.....like Mami. And she aint terrified. She says.....I will keep fighting for my ideals....and they won't make me pick up a gun.....but they are not gonna shut my mouth either....lol. And those KKK are the majority in her neighborhood. They have tags on their trucks and confederacy flags on their windows....and they know who is making trouble by trying to get the Mexicans some justice....and they don't like her at all. Lol. I wonder if paranoid Another Rican could stand the heat of that kitchen? NAW.....el necesita una pistola pa' protegerlo de Mari Bras y Berrios alla en Miami. Lol.
                              More strawmen and more misrepresentation of what I believe.
                              Arrogant is Another Rican. He is. He tells Leticia Gutierrez Velazquez an older woman with two grown daughters, who works and educated herself her whole life, and who is in her 50's that she is short-sighted and naive for wanting to give up some personal comforts and monies....and willing to sacrifice for her fellow Puerto Ricans should the time come for tightening the belt for independence......because the benevolent MASTER is gonna make sure our belts are tightened real hard....when he no longer can tell us to eat the food off a spoon and we say "where is my plate? where do I hunt? Where do I get my own....for my people?" "when you say so only?" "Get out of my face...you are not my master!!" I am not a cripple, ignorant, fool with no brains, heart or will. I AM A BORICUA, and CAN DO for myself". YEp, Leticia is the NAIVE ONE AND THE MISTAKEN ONE..........I DON'T think so!!! Lol.
                              More ranting from an irrational lady! Please don't keep on throwing the age thing and "daughters" etc., to make us feel pity. Do you want me to share my age and how many kids and my stuggles so you can have pity and then embrace conservatism? <ain't gonna happen even if I did that>
                              Que Viva Puerto Rico libre y soberana!! Y que todos los puertorriquenos de distintas fes, y distintas circunstancias digan......

                              Queremos la libertad.....la libertad......la libertad......LA LIBERTAD!!!!!
                              Do take your medication, Suki. I think you are having a psychotic episode.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Re: Leticia G

                                Leti said:
                                Suki, mi hermana

                                Perdona que no lei esto hasta ahora. Gracias por todas tu palabras y por tu alavo. Lo aprecio mucho con toda sinceridad.

                                No te preocupes que aunque no ataco a gente ignorante aveces, yo se mi valor, mi poder y tambien se que la fuerza interna que tengo jamas deja que palabras de otros me hieran tan facilmente. Tambien se que el caracter mio se pone mas fuerte entre mas traten de herirme. Creo que los valores que uno aprende desde joven son lo que cuenta, creo que aunque "masters" le crean que te pueden dominar, eso no es posible a menos que uno lo deje que sea.

                                Por eso hay personas que viven su vida esperando que su "Master" le digan si deben hablar, comer, vivir o opinar. Eso jamas lo encontraran en una persona que sepa que lo que ellos creen es bueno, no solo para ellos sino para todos. Porque el labor y el sudor, no es malo para el caracter de la persona, sino ayuda a esa persona a tener un caracter fuerte. Para mi eso es lo que cuenta. No tengo problema sacrificar por lo que en verdad creo.

                                Cuidate mi hermana y gracias de nuevo.
                                Leti... basically if you want to believe those misrepresentations of what I believe and try to force me into "your" mold then what can I do? Enjoy your delusion.

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