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  • IDeJesus
    replied
    To El Criollo:

    In the first place, my name is not Ines and I am not your sweetheart. I ask that you refer to me on this site with the same level of respect with which you address the males that post there thoughts here.

    Secondly, on the issue of the carpetas, it doesn't surprise me that there are barrio informants in Cuba, a comunist country, which lives in a state of military alert that is fueled by their belief that there are nations that pose a threat to their way of life. We have been conditioned to expect these things from a "communist regime".
    I am appalled however, when in the land of freedom and human rights, these types of abuses are perpetrated on innocent people, who were simply exercising the freedoms that are so vociferously marketed by this country. I am appalled when mothers and fathers are caused to lose jobs and thus the income with which to feed and house their children just because they have the courage to defend the things they believe in.

    I am appalled when the principles of the democracy that we hold so dear are trampled upon by the very people who hold themselves out to be the defenders of democracy. Thsi was the point I was trying to make by posting the article about the carpetas to this site. Don't you see the hipocracy of it all?

    Take care,

    IDJ

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  • IDeJesus
    replied
    Carlos:

    Definitivamente una de las mejores de Julia de Burgos. Gracias por compartir tu conocimiento y pensamientos con nosotros.

    IDJ

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  • Carlos_Marrero
    replied
    MAYBE JULIA CAN INSPIRE A TURN TO INNOVATION

    Yo misma fui mi ruta



    Yo quise ser como los hombres quisieron
    que yo fuese: un intento de vida; un juego
    al escondite con mi ser. Pero yo estaba hecha
    de presentes, y mis pies planos sobre
    la tierra promisora no resistían caminar hacia atrás,
    y seguían adelante, adelante,
    burlando las cenizas para
    alcanzar el beso de los senderos nuevos.
    A cada paso adelantado en mi ruta hacia el frente
    rasgaba mis espaldas el aleteo
    desesperado de los troncos viejos.
    Pero la rama estaba desprendida
    para siempre, y a cada nuevo azote la
    mirada mía
    se separaba más y más y más de
    los lejanos horizontes aprendidos:
    y mi rostro iba
    tomando la espresión que le venía
    de adentro, la expresión definida que asomaba
    un sentimiento de liberación íntima;
    un sentimiento que surgía del
    equilibrio sostenido
    entre mi vida y la verdad
    del beso de los senderos nuevos.
    Ya definido mi rumbo en el presente,
    me sentí brote de todos los suelos de la tierra,
    de los suelos sin historia, de los suelos sin porvenir,
    del suelo siempre suelo sin
    orillas de todos los hombres y
    de todas las épocas.
    Y fui toda en mí como fue en mí la vida…
    Yo quiese ser como los hombres
    quisieron que yo fuese: un intento de vida; un
    juego al escondite con mi ser.
    Pero yo estaba hecha de presentes;
    cuando ya los heraldos me anunciaban
    en el regio desfile de los
    troncos viejos, se me torció el
    deseo de seguir
    a los hombres,
    y el homenaje se quedó esperándome.

    Julia de Burgos

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  • Carlos_Marrero
    replied
    In my reading here, I've notice some questions regarding which "geopuertoricans" should resolve the status question. If you live in the US continental, should you even be offering an opinion, let alone an actual vote?

    This is a tough call, but I offer you "science" as a model. When it comes to "accounting" for "light", "sound", "earthquakes", "inflation", "revolutions", or anything else of interest to scientists, does it matter where you live? No, what matters is the strength of your evidence. In Philosophy what matters is the coherence and scope of your arguments. In the arts, it is your artistry that makes you. In nature, if you're fit, you're fit, period. (Even though geography is not irrelevant, genetics and ecology are more to the point.)

    In our political destiny, the "puerto rican mind" must gather information from ALL OF ITS EYES AND EARS. The experiences of Puerto Ricans everywhere must be part of the process, so that the people are as informed as they can be.

    I don't know if this logic extends to the actual "vote". But it seems to me the conversation leading to that vote ought to be as broad as we can make it. Who casts the actual vote is a different matter. I these pages though, and in this conversation we are not casting votes, we are exchanging information. No one should be made to feel "illegitimate" or "second-class". We are all the better off when we have opportunities to fine-tune out ideas in the face of the most wide-ranging contribution of conceptualizations.

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  • Carlos_Marrero
    replied
    We are just opening up the 21st century, and who knows what it has in store for us, and the World. Lets not limit our options to 19th century categories. We always end up fighting over anexation, sovereignty, or something in between--associationism of some sort.

    First World nations are already re-drawing their conceptions of political organization. They are beginning to feel the gap between economic and social currents on a global scale, and their anachronistic political formulas. Puerto Rican politicians have never been men and women of formula--we couldn't afford to be. We have always been prepared to bend the canons and find a way amidst conflict and confusion. When the US pushed for militarism, blue-colarism, vocationalism, monolingualism, economic subserviancy and monoculture, political acquiescence, and so many other things they thought was more fitting to who they perceived us to be (or needed us to be), our leadership found a way. The Commonwealth was a great experiment in compromise, and it brought us into the 20th century. Internal administrative self-regulation was a first necessary step away from the old colonial formulas.

    Now we need to figure out how to expand beyond current forms of dependency. And we need to understand that in the year 2000 and beyond, Sovereignty may not be our best option. Of course, incorporation into the Union a-la-Hawaii has never been a good option for us, which is why the people have defeated it at home and at the poles. Commonweath, being more a platform for the future than an option, offers no lasting resolution to the status question. Even Congress was perplexed by Commonwealth when it revisited the question, in the wake of taking a stand on the "referendum" question. Puerto Rico was declared a "territory" with limited internal self-control, notwithstanding the deceptive connotations of the English term "commonwealth" the the Spanish phrase "estado libre associado". Commonwealth only affords us the right to implement at home the dictates and policy of a foreign nation.

    As you work out notions of political structure, think of the economy. But don't fall into these typical, self-defeating assertions (as has El Jibaro), that point to our weaknesses. We are a strong and resourceful people (though not an afluent one within Old Capitalism), and we need to think about where we want to fit within the new World economy. Our political organization should reflect our economic, social and cultural goals. Political thinking should not take dictation from venerable 19th century heroes. Our intelectual forefathers (e.g., Betances, Marti) were men of creation, and they would want us to be creators, as well.

    We need more self-regulation, and we are ready for it. But we need not fall into the trap of thinking that the only path to greater local power is Independence. Lets look at what we have and find small, piecemeal adjustments that would grant the island more effective power. By the time the uncreative politicians and journalists figure it all out, we could be ready to let them know how we are already doing "power", while they were busy spinning their endless, useless webs of infertile language.

    As far as "statehood" is concerned, I am not yet prepared to embrace this option. Although the Union is a diverse place, and local communities do speak in whatever language they please, and non-anglo cultures have managed to capture impresive niches within the continental social ecology, statism holds implications I'm not comfortable with. All these diverse "other-americans" remain "peripheral", not fundamental. Washington does not speak French for Louisiana or Spanish for Miami or Chinesse for California. One does not address Congress in Spanish, simply because one's political base is Puerto Rican. The nation's language is English. The nations President addresses the nation in English. The Pope does not speak to him in Italian, regardless of how many Italians live in New York and other center of money and power. Wall Street does not trade in Japanesse, the latter learn English. And what holds for language, also holds in other areas of culture. One does not sacrifice Shakespeare for Cervantes, where the curriculum only has room for one. If a little school in Miami has to choose, it reads Robert Frost, not Lope de Vega. Luis Rafael Sanches looses out to any North American playright, and I do mean any. I don't want to continue this train of thought; no need beatin the dead horse with the stick. Federal standards embody a conviction that "American" children must know that which Anglo-Americans "know", rather than what their ancestry demands. And their insistance on "culteral literacy" uniformity goes way beyond mathematics and reading, to effect the deprivation of all "americans" from any trace of history not derived through Anglo trails. Statehood is the wrong turn for a people with such an extensive, pre-existing system of roads. We must continue to lay down our own paths, so that their destinations have something to do with where we want to be, and less to do with where someone else need us to be. Representation is essential, but it doesn't have to place us forever in the US Congress. The world is changing, and these transformations apply also to what "representation" matters. Fifty years from now, Congress may no longer serve our nations interests. We need to retain our ability to position ourselves strategically in relation to the demands of historical moments, rather than archaic, foreign legal documents in vaults up in Washington.

    I better stop. I made my point sufficiently, and can furnish beyond this if asked to. Independence is premature at best, and possibly anachronistic. Statehood is late in the game, and bars us from other more attractive contemporary and evolving options. And Commonwealth, to which we owe so much, is but a launchpad to the future. Let's see where we go from here.

    Peace.

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  • J_Vargas
    replied
    Hi people! I just wanted to say Feliz Navidades a todos mis hermanos y hermanas! Enjoy the holidays and take care and be safe. Don't drink and drive!


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  • EL_BORICUA
    replied
    WHY SOMEONE WHO WANTS INDEPENDENCE FOR PUERTO RICO HAVE TO BE A SOCIALIST OR
    A MARXIST,MAOIST OR WHATEVER I BELIEVE
    IN THE INDEPENDENCE OF PUERTO RICO I AM
    NOT A COMMUNIST I SERVED IN THE ARMED FORCES
    AND I AM NOT ANTI AMERICAN I JUST THINK IT'S TIME TO PART WAYS.

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  • El_Criollo
    replied
    InesDeJesus:

    Sweetheart, do you know that your beloved Cuba has an INFORMER COMMITTEE in every Barrio? And to this very day they still do this in Cuba. At least the Carpetas are almost 20 years old, while in Cuba you still have to whisper every time you talk. What is worse, the "Carpetas" or the Neighborhood Informers?

    However, when one is fanatic about Socialism, reality is only seen through very distorted glasses.

    ------------------
    desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa

    Leave a comment:


  • keeptrying
    replied
    Unfortunatly this one issue is not as easy to agree upon. I agree that when people come together they will be heard, but unfortunatly this one issue has totally divided the people. The last few referendums have shown the split among the population with roughly 38% favoring commonwealth, 36% statehood, and 3-4% independence. That isn't even half the population favoring one party. This means that if the people are not united, nothing will be done.

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  • Jose_Luis
    replied
    This message is for El Boricua.

    This whole dispute over Puerto Rico becoming the 51st state of America has nothing to do with the United States government. It solely involves the people of Puerto Rico. they have to speak out and have their voice heard the loudest. I agree with every statement you make. But in order for us puertoricans to be heard, our voice and opinion must be united, louder, and stronger than that of the American people. It is time for us to put aside our differences and start agreeing to certain things. Compromise and patience are the only keys for us to have our people united and loud and strong.

    God Bless

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  • a_carleone
    replied
    La noticia de arriba ya ha sido contestada por mi. Porque dañan el foro poniendo la misma cosa en todos los lugares. por favor seamos creativos y desmostremos nuestro talento sin copiar noticias de otro. Todos aquí tenemos computadoras e Intenenet gratis en toda la Nación Americana ( también en Puerto Rico por ser parte de ella) y vemos los periódicos.

    Leave a comment:


  • IDeJesus
    replied
    Esto es lo que hace el gobierno Federal tan admirado por los estadistas puertorriquenos!!

    San Juan Questions Spy Settlement
    15:23EST

    By CHRIS HAWLEY
    Associated Press Writer
    12/15/99

    SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) -- When the Puerto Rican police department released more than
    135,000 secret dossiers on suspected independence supporters, it laid bare a landscape of
    deception in this U.S. territory.

    Shocked islanders found that friends and co-workers had been spying on them in part of a vast
    effort to quash anti-U.S. sentiments. Students found themselves unaccountably linked to
    terrorists. Businessmen and women found evidence that they had been denied jobs and
    scholarships.

    On Tuesday, after 10 years of legal battles, the government apologized and offered $5.7 million
    to compensate them. Many say that's not enough.

    "You can't heal people's lives so easily,'' said Felix Colon Morera, 47, who was stunned when he
    saw the 1,000-page file on his militant activities during his college days.

    Inside were photos, descriptions of the inside of his house, interviews with neighbors and
    employers, careful notes from rallies he had attended and comments linking him to a terrorist
    group of which he says he had never heard. The last and most chilling item, filed in 1983, was a
    picture of his newly wed wife.

    "It made you feel like ... something in a government laboratory,'' Colon said. The surveillance
    was declared unconstitutional and the files released to their subjects in 1989.

    On Tuesday, Gov. Pedro Rossello offered "a solemn and sincere apology ... for the concoction
    and maintenance of these files.''

    In an attempt to settle lawsuits by thousands of victims, he offered to pay $6,000 to each
    plaintiff with more than 30 pages in their files. Others with more than 30 pages who had
    expressed interest in suing but have not yet filed claims would receive $3,000.

    The announcement comes amid a surge in nationalistic sentiment fostered by a battle with the
    U.S. Navy over a bombing range on an outlying Puerto Rican island. President Clinton's recent
    release of 11 pro-independence militants jailed for seditious conspiracy has also reopened debate
    on Puerto Rico's relationship with the United States, which won the island from Spain in 1898.

    Police began collecting information on suspected independence activists after the government
    passed a 1948 law making it illegal to show the Puerto Rican flag, sing nationalist songs or hold
    independence rallies.

    It was part of government efforts to rein in radicals as it negotiated its current commonwealth
    arrangement with Washington. Later, FBI-trained agents expanded the program to track
    suspected communists and terrorists.

    The operation was exposed during investigations into an undercover agent's role in a the police
    killing of two young independence supporters in 1978.

    "An extraordinary amount of effort went into following people and maintaining these files, and
    the damage they caused was enormous,'' said civil rights lawyer Judith Berkan, whose own
    dossier contains hundreds of pages.

    Former psychologist Carmen Rios Rivera trembled with anger when she read one typewritten
    1972 entry from her dossier: "Several patients of the psychiatric hospital escaped and the
    person above was identified as an employee of this institution with separatist tendencies.''
    Another entry has her boss giving undercover agents permission to watch her.

    "These kinds of implications are shameless,'' Rios said. She blames the dossier for a string of
    missed promotions and denied transfers that prompted her to quit psychology.

    Thousands of unclaimed files -- as well as lists of undercover agents, informants and the people
    who read the dossiers -- remain sealed in a building in central San Juan.

    Many activists say the surveillance hobbled the independence movement, which has won less
    than 5 percent of votes in recent referendums.

    "The dossiers linked being pro-independence with being a criminal,'' said Javier Colon, 43, who
    wrote a book about the dossiers, including surveillance of him that began when he was 15. "You
    get the feeling that there will always be people who mean well but have an agenda against you,
    and that fear stays with you for the rest of your life.''


    Copyright 1999 Associated Press. All rights reserved.

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  • El_Jibaro
    replied
    If Puerto Rico were Independent…

    I guess that we would have to print our own money; no problem with that, if there is a good economy to back it up. However, since I lived most of my life in the Island, I know how corrupt our politicians and business leaders are, I wouldn’t be surprised if we had hyper-inflation like in Mexico and Brazil.

    Without having a prior Death Penalty we would either have to become a Police State or an Anarchic Paradise (a la “Escape from L. A.”) , where only the strong get Justice from their own fist [and gun]. And if our Puerto Rican Police Force becomes corrupt [we do have a tendency to tie up their hands and treat them like dirt], who is going to keep an eye on them? – Right now the FBI keeps an eye on our PR Police.

    Having more than 500,000 Dominicans in the Island, and knowing we do have a definite bent on Racism [otherwise there would be not so many Dominican Jokes], I have a feeling that genocide a la Kosovo is a definite possibility.

    The Catholic Clergy swears that 98 percent of Puerto Ricans are Catholic, not facing the truth that nearly 50 percent of the Island is Evangelical of one kind or another (with a majority of them Pentecostals). Never mind that most of the rest of the people who say are Catholic don’t practice their religion at all. Seeing how Catholic Persecutions have happened in Mexico and Colombia, where the priests have led mobs in killing Protestants, what is there to stop that from happening in Puerto Rico? An Atheist Government (I’m sorry, I should have said a “Secular Government”)?

    The Problem with the proponents of Independence is that they DELIBERATELY IGNORE Human Nature. If our culture were disciplined, frugal and responsible I would be there to fight for our Independence. But it is not. And if you read the history books (Fray Iñigo Abbad and other old books), you would notice that our inclination towards Indolence and Vice (back then it was rum, sex [particularly sodomy] and cockfights) dates from the days when we were a Spanish Crown Colony. That is the Independentistas, they stick their heads in the sand and DELIBERATELY IGNORE the facts. They make an Ideological Construct in their minds, filled with Utopian fervor, totally devoid of Reality, and then they claim that they are the sole representatives of the Wellbeing of Our People. And these are extremely loud in making those claims, drowning out with their loud rhetoric anyone who opposes them. A tiny political minority in our Island (not even 10%), but they don’t care if they have to push their ideology by force. They use Democracy to attain their Un-Democratic aims, and what will we do when they have their way? They, like most of their ideological progenitors (Communism, Anarchism, Fascism, National Socialism, Khmer Rouge, Sendero Luminoso, Frente Farabundo Marti, los Macheteros…) don’t have any qualms about taking power by force. They do not have any qualms about establishing a dictatorship. Remember, they know better than the rest of us how to run our own lives; or so they think.

    Just a thought from someone who has to drive 100 miles a day to feed his family (and spends half of what he earns paying taxes jus so that a heroin addict in Puerto Rico can turn his Cupones into the "fix" of the day).

    ------------------
    Manuel Alonso

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  • J_Vargas
    replied
    Hi El Boricua! Have you been to Puerto Rico lately? Wel-fare is rampant in that small little country. People trying to collect SSI at an early age of 40. People collecting unemployment who didn't work one ounce in that wonderful country. They went to the united states to work 6 months out of the year so they could go home and kick back for six months to a years pending on the unemployment percentage. Are you saying we don't need USA? We are dependent on all the help they give us. Yea,I guess you are right we should be independent. We should go on our own and not be dependent on no one. Yea, we should take care of our own people. Oh! wait a minute! Does that mean taking away my welfare check. Well let's think about it first, let's not make hasty decision. I got rent to pay, and food to put on my table!!!
    There is a lot more to indepence than meets the eye. They don't want to be independent. They want thing to go as they are right now!!! Which is fine with me also!!! God bless you El Boricua.

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  • keeptrying
    replied
    The USA's history is 200 years old. Before 1776, they were seperate states. Seperate governments, laws, etc. After 1776 they merged and that is when the US as a nation came into existance. So the USA's history is 223 years old to be exact.
    As for David Duke, who cares what he thinks. He has never held office. He can run all he wants, but he has no backing behind him. He comes from Louisiana. He may be of French background and the word "Anglo" means "English speaking northern Europeans". French, Italian, and Spanish are all latin languages. He is only one man, you can't label all white people David Duke. There are racists in all races in every part of the world.
    What is wrong with Puerto Rico being an independent nation? Nothing. If this is what they want. It is easy for you and I to tell them what they should do. We both live here on the mainland. We vote in State elections, pay state taxes, and are represented in Washington. So if PR did become independent it must be their choice to make, not ours. They are the ones who must vote for their future. So even if independence is achived and things are hard for them, we still have our comfortable jobs, and our nice apartments/houses here. I admire the support you have for a free Puerto Rico, but you speak from the heart, not the head. No one knows what independence will bring to the island. On the last referendum the parties involved were all promising things that the US government will never agree to, like duel citizenship. You can't have two countries and one citizenship. Washington will never agree to it. If PR did become independent they will have their own citizenship, there would have to be passport controls set up, and PR would have to join NAFTA unless there was something worked out. So it is easy to say PR will be better off because you aren't living there. Puerto Ricans would have to go to the US Embassy in order to move here because there is not going to be a free flow of people as they say. Because we both know it will only flow one way. The quota for immigrants is 20,000 a year.
    As for this communist thing. I agree. It will never happen. Communism has been falling all over the place. Even China is working in a market economy, and some tools of diplomacy. Castro knows his system is a failure but is too stuborn to be the "father" of a democratic Cuba rather then a communist/socialist one. I also think Puerto Rico would never let it happen because it would ruin everything they have developed and worked hard on. Their skilled labor would leave, and investment would cease. An independent PR will not be communist. However it won't be a powerhouse either. PR already does have trade and investment from Europe, and Latin America. Spain just bought the telephone company a year or two ago. The Dominican Republic is also PR's second biggest trading partner. Being a commonwealth has not prevented PR from trade and investment.
    As I stated earlier, I don't know which I would give moral support to: Independence or Statehood. Both have their plus' and minus'. To be honest, that is something the islanders have to deal with. They have to decide what is best for them. What we have to do is support what ever choice they make.
    I know you are not going to give up on your dream of an Independent PR, but it has to be their dream as well. They need to get that 3-5% who support independence up to 55% or more. So you have your work cut out for you!

    [This message has been edited by keeptrying (edited 15 December 1999).]

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