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  • Utopia

    How much does it take to dream up a Utopia?

    Don Quixote had a Utopian Dream.

    Hippies had several too...
    With them came Charles Manson, Jim Jones and other Utopians.

    I guess it only takes to dream them up to get disconnected from reality.

    ------------------
    Manuel Alonso

  • #2
    Thank God for those who still dare to dream of a better world and who in so doing embark on a mission to achieve their dreams for the benefit of all humanity.

    Imagine for a second a world even more complacent then the one we live in already.

    Que Viva Puerto Rico Libre.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks God for Don Quixote!

      Thanks God for Fidel Castro, Charles Manson and Jim Jones...

      ------------------
      desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa
      desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa: Manuel Alonso "El Jíbaro"

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey Criollo:

        You forgot to "thank God" for Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler and Josph Stalin. They were very Great and very Active Utopians.

        ------------------
        Manuel Alonso

        Comment


        • #5
          TRULY FRIENDS WHERE WOULD THE WORLD BE WITHOUT DREAMERS HOW ABOUT J.F.K. AND HIS DREAM THAT THAT MAN CAN REACH THE MOON,
          DR.MARTIN LUTHER KING HE HAD A DREAM.
          IT IS THOSE THAT LACK IMAGINATION AND HAVE NO DREAMS THAT GIVE RISE TO PEOPLE LIKE MANSON,
          HITLER,POL POT...ETC.
          AT LEAST DON QUIJOTE DARED TO LIVE HIS DREAMS
          THERE ARE TOO MANY COWARDS OUT THERE TOO AFRAID TO TRY.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Boris:

            J.F.K. and Martin Luther King were not Utopians per se.

            Why don't you go to the Encyclopedia Brittanica and find out the definition of Utopia before you post your opinion. You will save yourself the embarrassment.

            ------------------
            desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa
            desde_el_Jurutungo_de_Bairoa: Manuel Alonso "El Jíbaro"

            Comment


            • #7
              HAVE YOU EVER READ THE I HAVE A DREAM SPEECH
              IF THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE A UTOPIAN DREAM I
              DONT KNOW WHAT DOES,BUT IF YOU READ CORRECTLY
              I AM SPEAKING ABOUT DREAMERS AND THOSE WHO
              DARE TO WORK TO ACHIEVE THOSE DREAMS THERE IS NO UTOPIA SO WHY TALK ABOUT IT,I ALSO TALK ABOUT MORONS WHO HAVE SO GREAT AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX THAT THEY MUST ATTEMPT TO RIDICULE OTHER PEOPLES BELIEFS AND IDEAS TO
              MASK THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NONE OF THEIR
              OWN,AND LIVE SAD AND INADEQUATE LIVES SO
              MAYBE YOU SHOULD LEARN HOW TO READ TO SPARE
              YOURSELF EMBARRASSMENT.
              GOOD DAY


              [This message has been edited by EL BORICUA (edited 21 January 2000).]

              Comment


              • #8
                El Boricua: Who was it that said that as long as you throw them a piece of meat they`ll love you, follow you like a hungry puppy and God forbid one day you only have bread, you`ll be history. I guess it all comes down to economics, make em believe they have it easy and they will vote for you forever. Ah, the almighty buck, its better than drugs when it comes to mass brainwashing!!! How sad.

                [This message has been edited by joseuno (edited 21 January 2000).]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Criollo:

                  Don't get offended by Borax. He is all hot air and nothing more. Better spend your energies with real thinkers.

                  I did go fetch the definition of Utopia at the Encyclopedia Brittannica.

                  Utopia - an ideal commonwealth whose inhabitants exist under seemingly perfect conditions. Hence "utopian" and "utopianism" are words used to denote visionary reform that tends to be impossibly idealistic.

                  Borax, Isabel and the gang don't know how to differentiate between the Thirst and Hunger after Righteousness and the Humanist Dream of Utopia.

                  In the case of Martin Luther King, he was talking of Righteousness (that which should rule the relationship between a man and his neighbor), born out of his zeal for the Bible (he was a Protestant Minister you know... of the old school that believed the Bible to be totally True, and totally the Infallible Word of God). As you know well, Protestant African Americans from before the 1960's believed Heaven to be a Real Place, and the efforts to achieve Righteousness on Earth as a by-product of following Jesus. There was nothing "impossibly idealistic" about King, he knew where his vision was founded on. As you know well, there was an abysmal difference between King and Malcom-X. Communist African Americans also hated King. The Left considered King a distraction, and an impediment to establishing their own brand of equality by force.

                  Every time someone tries to establish Utopia by cutting Jesus out of the Picture they end up destroying the very humanity they say they want to save:

                  Stalin - 30 Million Russians

                  Hitler - 6 Million Jews
                  4 Million Gypsies
                  2 Million Dissidents
                  20 Million Russians in War

                  Pol Pot - 2 Million Cambodians

                  Mao - some estimates - 30 Million

                  Castro - some estimates - 100 Thousand

                  And when the Anti-Christ shows up - 1/2 Humanity

                  Interestingly, Human History does have an inherent tendency to advance toward Utopian Experiments that result in Death rather than Life.

                  ------------------
                  Manuel Alonso

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Y O U W R O T E:
                    Stalin - 30 Million Russians

                    Hitler - 6 Million Jews
                    4 Million Gypsies
                    2 Million Dissidents
                    20 Million Russians in War

                    Pol Pot - 2 Million Cambodians

                    Mao - some estimates - 30 Million

                    Castro - some estimates - 100 Thousand

                    And when the Anti-Christ shows up - 1/2 Humanity

                    THERE YOU GO, SLICING UP HISTORY INTO THREADS SO THIN THAT THE CAUSES OF THESE EVENTS CANNOT POSSIBLY BE APPRECIATED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS MORE TO APPLES AND ORANGES THAN THE FACT THAT THEY ARE BOTH SWEET???? YOU LUMP ALL THESE DISPARATE EVENTS TOGETHER - ALL OF WHICH ARE REGRETABLE - AND THEN CLAIM IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH RESISTANCE TO CHRISTIANITY. WHERE DID YOU GET THIS ONE, OF A PENTECOSTAL PULPIT? WHAT THE HELL DID THE EMERGENCE OF COMMUNISM IN CHINA HAVE TO DO WITH CHRIST? THE ANTI-CHRIST??? ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT REALITY HERE???

                    HISTORY 101 FOR YOU.
                    A map of the world that does not
                    include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the
                    one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity
                    lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail.
                    Progress is the realisation of Utopias.
                    OSCAR WILDE

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      KING VRS. MALCOLM X ?????

                      DO YOU THINK KING ALONE WOULD HAVE CARRIED THROUGH THE CIVIL RIGHTS PROGRAM? DON'T YOU SEE THAT THEY BOTH PLAYED PIVOTAL ROLES IN OPENNING UP AMERICAN SOCIETY? SOMEONE HAD TO STRIKE, AND SOMEONE HAD TO HEAL.

                      CONSIDER ALSO THAT THE LATE, MATURE KING (RIGHT BEFORE HIS ASSASINATION) WAS EXTREMELY DISSAPOINTED AND FELT CIVIL RIGHTS IN THE UNITED STATES WOULD NOT PROGRESS MUCH FURTHER WITHOUT "INTERNATIONAL" PRESSURE. KING'S NEXT STEP WAS TO APPROACH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND SAY: "WE AAs ARE A COLONIZED PEOPLE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE UNITED STATES, AND IMPROVEMENT OF OUR CONDITION AS AN "AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE" REQUIRES AS MUCH THE INTERVENTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS AS THAT OF ALGERIA, OR ANY OTHER SUBJECT PEOPLE".

                      MALCOLM, ON THE OTHER HAND, SOFTENED UP LATE IN HIS CARRIER - AND WAS KILLED ANYWAY, OF COURSE.

                      IF KING HAD LIVED 10 MORE YEARS, CIVIL RIGHTS WOULD HAVE TAKEN ITS RIGHTFUL PLACE AS A CROSS-NATIONAL MOVEMENT AGAINST EXPANSIONIST CAPITALISM.

                      ------------------
                      A map of the world that does not
                      include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the
                      one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity
                      lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail.
                      Progress is the realisation of Utopias.
                      OSCAR WILDE

                      A map of the world that does not
                      include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the
                      one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity
                      lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail.
                      Progress is the realisation of Utopias.
                      OSCAR WILDE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Carlitos:

                        *************************************
                        Stalin - 30 Million Russians

                        Hitler - 6 Million Jews
                        4 Million Gypsies
                        2 Million Dissidents
                        20 Million Russians in War

                        Pol Pot - 2 Million Cambodians

                        Mao - some estimates - 30 Million

                        Castro - some estimates - 100 Thousand

                        And when the Anti-Christ shows up - 1/2 Humanity
                        *************************************


                        I have come up with all those figures by watching TV just like you, the Discovery Channel, TLC, CNN News.

                        I have never said that the Dictators mentioned were fighting Christianity alone. I said, that in their effort to establish their Perfect Worlds, their Utopias, they ended killing Humanity (not Christians per se). If you had read my posting carefully you wouldn't have made that silly mistake.

                        The context of Stalin's 30 Million Russians (and other people groups killed) is the very fact that because of his purges, and social experiments in people repatriation History says he himself killed 30 Million of his own countrymen. Documentaries by Russians themselves give witness to this. Go and research the matter yourself and you will find it to be so.

                        The numbers on Hitler are a matter of public record. No need from me to explain there. Go to the books boy, and do your homework.

                        On Pol Pot: watch the movie Killing Fields. Better yet, watch CNN for an entire year, and every time they mention the Khmer Rouge you will hear the 2 Million murders mentioned.

                        About Mao, the figure I quote I heard also somewhere in the Official Media (ABCnews, CNN, NBCNews...).

                        Same for Fidel. Perhaps you should visit Amnesty International, they may have the number.

                        Only the last figure comes from the Bible itself, the last part: Revelation. As a result of his Reign (he is called in Revelation, the Beast), there are wars, epidemics and famines. In Revelation 6.2, the first rider is the Anti-Christ himself who comes to establish his own brand of "Peace", and after him follow War and Death, and as a result 1/4 Humanity dies: Revelation 6.8. Then again during his Reign there will be another World War (Revelation 9.13-19), with some 200 Million Cavalry Soldiers [perhaps tanks, perhaps a new weapon to be designed in the future...], and the death toll is 1/3 Humanity. Together, they add up to 7/12 of Humans killed, but I take out the effects of death from wild animals. Thus 1/2 of humanity somewhere in the future (who knows how many people then, from the Present 6 Billion Population to how many Billions live in the years ahead) will die from a Utopian Effort to have One World, under One Leader, united against everything that represents Jesus.

                        As you can see, I read, study and do my research before writing. I hope you do the same.

                        ------------------
                        Manuel Alonso

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          EL JIBARO IF YOU WANT TO LIST WHO KILLED WHO
                          THROUGHOUT HISTORY YOU MUST ADD THE CATHOLIC
                          CHURCH THEY HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS,THE U.S.A.
                          WHO KILLED COUNTLESS OF NATIVE AMERICANS,AND
                          AFRICAN SLAVES,THE BRITISH,THE SPANISH ALL
                          DID THE SAME I DONT RECALL ANY OF THESE PEOPLE PROMISING "UTOPIA" THEY KILLED BECAUSE OF GREED,AND TO STAY IN POWER THATS ALL,NOW
                          YOU BRING THE ANTI-CHRIST INTO THIS,WELL I THINK YOU TAKE THE BIBLE TOO LITERARILY,BUT THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL RIGHT,IF THE PROPHECY
                          IS TRUE,THEN IT WILL HAPPEN,SO I DONT WORRY
                          ABOUT IMPENDING DOOM,I RATHER WORK FOR A
                          BETTER PUERTO RICO AND WORLD NOW THAN SIT
                          IN A BOMB SHELTER WAITING FOR D-DAY,FOR ALL
                          I KNOW THE ANTI-CHRIST MAY BE LIVING IN N.J.
                          RIGHT NOW WHO CAN SAY?

                          [This message has been edited by EL BORICUA (edited 22 January 2000).]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I don't know about you Borax, but I live everyday day with Peace and Joy in my heart, don't own a gun, drive to work 100 miles everyday in the Parkway come Sun-Rain-or-Snow, didn't store anything for Y2K since I know something about computers and knew there was little to fear (y estaba mas pelao a fin de año...), and I am too busy focused on teaching about Jesus, the True Messiah, to set about finding who is the Anti-Messiah.

                            I would tell you Compatriota, for the Love of Country that we share, and because I desire for you to have Joy that will Last Forever, that death nor anyone could take away, to give your heart to Jesus (not to get in a religion, not to follow some leader down here). Just simply turn your heart over to Him. No-one who tries Jesus [the historical Jesus, the Biblical Jesus, the "Plain Vanilla Jesus"] will be shortchanged.

                            However, all the killers that I mentioned above share something in Common: they all called themselves Socialists.

                            All those Socialists have killed 94.1 Million People in the Twentieth Century alone. That beats any other combined massacre in History by a Factor of Ten.

                            Following that trend, it is very-very probable that the Future Anti-Christ will be one more Socialist.

                            Isn't it Plain to See the deadly effects that Socialism has had on Humanity? Jesus said: "You will know the tree by its fruit." If a Philosophy has lead so many people to death, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the Philosophy is WRONG, that IT IS NOT TRUE, that IT IS A LIE?

                            In Socialism all the People Die for (and by) their Leader.

                            In the “Evangelio”, Jesus, the Leader, died for all the People.


                            ------------------
                            Manuel Alonso

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              WELL OK,LET ME GET THIS,IF YOU ARE A SOCIALIST YOU ARE LIKELY TO KILL OR BE
                              KILLED?WELL THATS NEWS TO ME,LET ME TELL YOU
                              THAT YES MANY HAVE DIED UNDER MARXIST
                              LENINIST,MAOIST REGIMES,THEY DON'T HAVE
                              EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS ON THIS MANY "GOD FEARING
                              CHRISTIANS" WITH THE BLESSINGS OF "DEMOCRATIC" GOVERNMENTS HAVE COMMITTED
                              ACTS OF GENOCIDE AND MURDER.
                              SUCH AS THE BIBLE CARRYING PIONEERS WHO WENT
                              OUT WEST TO TAKE THE LAND FROM THE NATIVE
                              PEOPLE WHO HELD IT.
                              THE MORMONS MASSACRED A GROUP OF ANGLO PIONEERS TRAVELING THROUGH UTAH.
                              FUNNY YOU MENTIONED REV.JIM JONES HE WAS
                              PREACHING THE "WORD" WHEN HE KILLED OFF
                              HIS FLOCK.
                              THE BRITISH HAVE DID WORSE IN AFRICA AND INDIA,SO DID THE FRENCH IN THEIR COLONIES
                              THEY STILL USE A SOUTH PACIFIC ISLAND FOR
                              NUCLEAR TEST.
                              WE KNOW WHAT THE SPANIARDS DID IN THE NAME
                              OF CHRISTIANITY.
                              SO YOU SEE ITS NOT SOCIALISM THAT KILLS BUT
                              GREED,PREJUDICE,AND HUNGER FOR POWER BASICALLY HUMAN NATURE.
                              I FORGOT THE ANTI-COMMUNIST GOVERNMENTS OF
                              PINOCHET,SOMOZA ...ETC.
                              SO YOU SEE ITS HUMANS NOT SOCIALISM THAT KILLS.

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